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GAME #3 - Canucks vs. Flames - Watch Me Schroed - 7:00PM PST - SPAC

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01-23-2013, 08:08 PM
  #276
Tiranis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
The thing is, I am not just comparing Raymond's AHL offensive production to Schroeder's AHL production. I am also comparing Raymond's NHL production to Schroeder's AHL production and that comparison seems to suggest that Raymond is the more offensively talented player. That is quite significant, that Raymond's best season in the NHL, a far superior league to the AHL, is better than Schroeder's best year in the AHL.
I don't really understand how that's significant considering he was considerably older at the time. That's quite possibly the worst comparison you could come up with.

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01-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I'm on my phone so I can't link to a source, but multiple names on Twitter reported he had a concussion.
Looks to be true, oilers fans discussing it around where i live (alberta, unfortunately)

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01-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Like I said, I am not suggesting that Schroeder isn't talented offensively. My point was that statistically, Raymond's production is far more impressive.
That's vastly different from what I quoted you saying earlier. Let's not confuse skillevel and talent with production...

Raymond has also had the luxury of playing with some excellent players on an elite offensive team. Put him in a worse environment and things could look much different. Just like Schroeder could be well over a point/game in the AHL if he played on an offensive juggernaut. Circumstance plays a huge role in player production - look no further than Schroeder's 1st couple years at the U of M.

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01-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #279
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I am not saying raymond is absolute garbage and we should give him a chance again (although I dont know if hes top 6 material but given our current status we need to use him)

but i wish people would stop using that to excuse every season.

Before he had that injury the season prior he played bad.

When he returned from the back injury as well, he was on fire, then went missing the rest of the season. He is not a plug but if he is a top 6 player, and needs to be in a top 6 role, he needs to prove it again, and hopefully he can.
Eh, I was more so annoyed at the absurdity of comparing Schroeder to Raymond.

I don't really mean to defend Raymond's recent production.

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01-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #280
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From the Edmonton Journal, Eager got his 4th career:

Quote:
Edmonton Oilers’ ruffian Ben Eager wanted to make Zack Kassian pay for taking a run at Taylor Hall Sunday night in Vancouver, but Eager has ended up paying the price, because he has another concussion in the wake of the Vancouver winger catching him with a left hook before the two wrestled to the ice.

Eager, who started last season on IR with a concussion after being drilled into the end boards by tryout player Kirill Tulupov, one of Igor Larionov’s clients, is out indefinitely. He was cut around the right eye and on his nose, and missed Tuesday’s Oilers’ loss to San Jose. He was at the game and was introduced in the opening ceremonies at Rexall Place, but doctors gave him the concussion diagnosis after the game. It’s not what he wanted to hear, for sure, after a very energetic and smart first game in Vancouver when he was aggressive and stayed out of the penalty box.

The problem Eager faces is this: to stay in the NHL, he has to be rambunctious, but if his brain keeps getting rattled, can he play that way? With every ensuing concussion, it takes less of a blow to get another. The tough part is Eager listened to the message delivered last season, that he had to be more of a policeman, that he had to keep the peace nightly. He did that inVancouver, just after Ales Hemsky had scored to tie it 2-2, and now one game into the season, he’s on IR.

“With the ice-time he had (about six minutes), he did what the team needed,” said Oilers’ coach Ralph Krueger. “He created aggressive pressure, away from the puck, he played a smart game. He was a presence. I was very pleased with his first game.”

Krueger admitted it was “a difficult situation with Ben. It’s not an easy process. We can only hope it heals quickly but we need to be patient with concussion symptoms. You have to give it a week, then after that it’s day-by-day.”

Krueger said Tuesday morning there was no facial fracture, but he’s having symptoms of a concussion. So, Darcy Hordichuk, who didn’t play the first two games, will suit up for the Los Angeles Kings Thursday at Rexall Place. The Oilers are down to 13 healthy forwards and seven D-men but Kreuger said they wouldn’t be calling up a forward from Oklahoma City.

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01-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #281
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http://oilonwhyte.com/2013/01/23/ben...medium=twitter

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01-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Like I said, I am not suggesting that Schroeder isn't talented offensively. My point was that statistically, Raymond's production is far more impressive.
...

But how do you compare one player who isn't impressive to one that hasn't played in the NHL?

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01-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #283
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Eh, I was more so annoyed at the absurdity of comparing Schroeder to Raymond.

I don't really mean to defend Raymond's recent production.
My bad then.

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01-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
That has to be the most useless, irrelevant sample size there is in hockey.

The fact that Schroeder can't out produce Raymond is terrifying.
I cant imagine Raymond producing much if he was in the same situation (offensivley incompetent team).

the moose were a much better team at his time in the AHL.

who knows, maybe you're right and Schroeder is a bust.

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01-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
A fourth concussion could be career ending for a fringe player.

I actually feel a little bad for him.

My man card should be revoked.

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01-23-2013, 08:13 PM
  #286
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but but eager won the fight because of the take down... lol

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01-23-2013, 08:15 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
A fourth concussion could be career ending for a fringe player.

I actually feel a little bad for him.

My man card should be revoked.
Under most circumstances I would feel bad for the player, but not with Ben Eager.

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01-23-2013, 08:17 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by poolchamp View Post
but but eager won the fight because of the take down... Lol
just bcause he giotz a concussion doesnt mean he lost the fight.

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01-23-2013, 08:18 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDiver View Post
From the Edmonton Journal, Eager got his 4th career:
ouch! I hope he recovers soon...

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01-23-2013, 08:19 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDiver View Post
From the Edmonton Journal, Eager got his 4th career:
Despite what the Edmonton Journal, all Canucks fans and any impartial hockey fan says, Eager won that fight.

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01-23-2013, 08:22 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't really understand how that's significant considering he was considerably older at the time. That's quite possibly the worst comparison you could come up with.
Raymond was 24 when he had his best NHL season, Schroeder was 22 when he had his best. I guess 2 years is "considerably older" in your world?

When Raymond was 22 he put up 17 points in 20 games. That would put Raymond third (if I am doing the math correctly) in PPG on the Moose.

Schroeder, in his best season (this year) was 5th in PPG on the Wolves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That's vastly different from what I quoted you saying earlier. Let's not confuse skillevel and talent with production...

Raymond has also had the luxury of playing with some excellent players on an elite offensive team. Put him in a worse environment and things could look much different. Just like Schroeder could be well over a point/game in the AHL if he played on an offensive juggernaut. Circumstance plays a huge role in player production - look no further than Schroeder's 1st couple years at the U of M.
Sorry if I misled you, but I have always been referring to statistis. Here are my first two posts:

"Raymond is far more talented offensively than Schroeder. Statistically, it isn't even close."

"Statistically, Raymond has significantly out produced Schroeder at the AHL. In fact, Raymonds best season in the NHL, statistically, is better than Schroeder's best season in the AHL..."

You are right that context is important. I don't really want to speculate what could/would happen if things were different. I was just making a statistical comparison.


Last edited by Hodgy: 01-23-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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01-23-2013, 08:23 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Despite what the Edmonton Journal, all Canucks fans and any impartial hockey fan says, Eager won that fight.
Who cares about the fight. Eager out weighs Kassian by probably 20lbs anyone. The thng that betters is that we know Kass likes to hit, can throw bombs at people's faces, and score goals occasionally. All I ask is consistently and a high level of play every game.

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01-23-2013, 08:23 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
just bcause he giotz a concussion doesnt mean he lost the fight.
If you walk out of a fight with a concussion and the other guy is fine I think it's safe to say you lost. Damage > everything else in a fight

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
Who cares about the fight. Eager out weighs Kassian by probably 20lbs anyone. The thng that betters is that we know Kass likes to hit, can throw bombs at people's faces, and score goals occasionally. All I ask is consistently and a high level of play every game.
Hopefully the next guy that thinks about running the twins or roughing one up in a scrum or sticking their finger in a Sedins face.

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01-23-2013, 08:26 PM
  #294
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I came late to the party... this debate that keeps popping up about comparing a 22 year old centre and a 27 year old winger perplexes me.

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01-23-2013, 08:27 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
I came late to the party... this debate that keeps popping up about comparing a 22 year old centre and a 27 year old winger perplexes me.
We're all excited to see him play and trying to get a handle on what to expect... no big deal.

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01-23-2013, 08:28 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
When Raymond was 22 he put up 17 points in 20 games.
When Schroeder was 19 he put up 15 points in 17 games in the same league...

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01-23-2013, 08:30 PM
  #297
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01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
Sorry if I misled you, but I have always been referring to statistis. Here are my first two posts:

"Raymond is far more talented offensively than Schroeder. Statistically, it isn't even close."

"Statistically, Raymond has significantly out produced Schroeder at the AHL. In fact, Raymonds best season in the NHL, statistically, is better than Schroeder's best season in the AHL..."

You are right that context is important. I don't really want to speculate what could/would happen if things were different. I was just making a statistical comparison.
Forgetting... Raymond AHL Playoffs:
13 GP, 0 goals, 1 assist, 1 Point.

Schroeder AHL Playoffs:
25 GP, 5 goals, 9 assists, 14 Points

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01-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #299
luongo321
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If you walk out of a fight with a concussion and the other guy is fine I think it's safe to say you lost. Damage > everything else in a fight



Hopefully the next guy that thinks about running the twins or roughing one up in a scrum or sticking their finger in a Sedins face.
lol, i was joking. I was just trying to be like the oilers fans who were like 'zomgz, just because eager got a few cuts doesn't mean he lost the fight!'

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01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
I came late to the party... this debate that keeps popping up about comparing a 22 year old centre and a 27 year old winger perplexes me.
I missed the first argument but someone was upset that Raymond was getting trashed on for being an offensive black-hole.

I wont judge Schroeder until he's had a few years but right now Raymond is a one-year wonder who can't do anything in the playoffs.

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