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04-25-2013, 12:19 AM
  #1
Volica
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Jamie McBain - Value of

Greetings Huricane fans,

Fan of the Flames snooping around your D-core . Around the trade deadline, Jim Rutherford I guess had been taking a look at what a player like Jamie McBain would get on the trade market, and what his value holds. I guess the deals weren't there, because he was not moved.

If I remember correctly, a bit after he was drafted (years), people were talking about him being a high end NHL talent. I know now he's on lower pairings for you guys, and not on the first PP unit either.

I know he's considered to be part of the future out there in Raleigh, but after the news that he was being shopped around the trade deadline; what is McBain worth for you guys?
I've always liked this kid, and would like to see him play with TJ Brodie. Along what lines would one be travelling with McBain?
First? Second + NHLer? Blue chip? NHLer get it done alone?

Thanks guys, look forward to the convo.

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04-25-2013, 12:26 AM
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bilpeto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volica View Post
Greetings Huricane fans,

Fan of the Flames snooping around your D-core . Around the trade deadline, Jim Rutherford I guess had been taking a look at what a player like Jamie McBain would get on the trade market, and what his value holds. I guess the deals weren't there, because he was not moved.

If I remember correctly, a bit after he was drafted (years), people were talking about him being a high end NHL talent. I know now he's on lower pairings for you guys, and not on the first PP unit either.

I know he's considered to be part of the future out there in Raleigh, but after the news that he was being shopped around the trade deadline; what is McBain worth for you guys?
I've always liked this kid, and would like to see him play with TJ Brodie. Along what lines would one be travelling with McBain?
First? Second + NHLer? Blue chip? NHLer get it done alone?

Thanks guys, look forward to the convo.
We'd be happy to take a first off your hands. Please, I insist.

Most of us here consider McBain as a throw-in rather than a piece to trade by himself. I honestly don't know what to value him at now after after a year with very little offense coming from an offensive defenseman. I'm not ready to give up on him, but his window might be closing fast here with Murphy coming up soon and the possibility of drafting a defenseman with our first round pick.

Oh, and if you do trade for him, you'd have to take his girlfriend with you too. Please look up @liz_mil on twitter if you don't really understand why.


EDIT: Oh, god, they're engaged now. Please...I'll trade him(them) for a bag of pucks.

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04-25-2013, 12:26 AM
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DaveG
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most of us would want a more defensive dman coming back, especially with our defenses current build.

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04-25-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
We'd be happy to take a first off your hands. Please, I insist.

Most of us here consider McBain as a throw-in rather than a piece to trade by himself. I honestly don't know what to value him at now after after a year with very little offense coming from an offensive defenseman. I'm not ready to give up on him, but his window might be closing fast here with Murphy coming up soon and the possibility of drafting a defenseman with our first round pick.

Oh, and if you do trade for him, you'd have to take his girlfriend with you too. Please look up @liz_mil on twitter if you don't really understand why.
Haha, oh no, the 3-7th wasn't the first I was talking about.
I honestly can say I don't pick up a ton of Canes games, really only when they're playing Winni/TO/Mon/Ott. Even then, it hasn't really been interesting this year, simply because there's no crossover, so I can't even get excited about watching my team play another.

So a throw in eh? With a D-oriented D-man on the way back? Perhaps of the physical nature? We've got one of those. He's old, skates like he's old, but he's an all in physical 5-6 Dman haha

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04-25-2013, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
EDIT: Oh, god, they're engaged now. Please...I'll trade him(them) for a bag of pucks.
Didn't know he came with Baggage... She seems, lovely.
Know a good way you get rid of a yuppy girl? Send her somewhere where it's under -20 for half the year

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04-25-2013, 12:33 AM
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DaveG
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
Didn't know he came with Baggage... She seems, lovely.
Know a good way you get rid of a yuppy girl? Send her somewhere where it's under -20 for half the year
so the Chris Pronger method?

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04-25-2013, 12:37 AM
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so the Chris Pronger method?
That really didn't work out there either
Hmm, I wasn't aware he was this far down.

On a side note. I've see Victor Rask play about 20-25 games a year for the past couple years. Really exciting guy. Got a good one there, definitely.
How untouchable is he for you guys?

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04-25-2013, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
That really didn't work out there either
Hmm, I wasn't aware he was this far down.

On a side note. I've see Victor Rask play about 20-25 games a year for the past couple years. Really exciting guy. Got a good one there, definitely.
How untouchable is he for you guys?
I personally don't want to move Rask at all, but I'd be willing to accept it if it was in a deal for a good top-4 defenseman. Otherwise, no chance from me.


Something that's been discussed here before is looking at Giordano. What would he cost to acquire, in your opinion?

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04-25-2013, 01:04 AM
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I personally don't want to move Rask at all, but I'd be willing to accept it if it was in a deal for a good top-4 defenseman. Otherwise, no chance from me.


Something that's been discussed here before is looking at Giordano. What would he cost to acquire, in your opinion?
Well, the problem with Giordano, in my eyes, is the fact that the GM likes to look at him as a "off-limits" player that will quite possibly don the C next year (barring an unlikely return of #12).
And that's where my problem is located; as I only believe young kids who could change a team, or the franchise player of a team should be off-limits; while everyone else should be available for the right deal.

Giordano is a good 2/3 guy. He can either hold down a second pairing, among the best in the league, or he can... I don't want to say struggle, but, not have an excellent time, being in the number 1 shutdown role. Earlier this year, they had been playing him with Bouwmeester (Who is a #1 guy) and he was making too many mistakes and seemed behind the action quite a bit. Now that they moved him down to the second pairing, with Wideman, he's been quite good. Even as the main shutdown guy some nights (along with Brodie's pairing). I just don't think he was any good at keeping up with Bouwmeester.

His return should be up there. He's physical, has a nasty side. Is a leader in the dressing room. Has a cannon, and can chip in for 25-40 points a season generally. A solid guy to have on any team. Also his cap hit, for what he does, is on the fair to good side of things at 4 million.

There was talks on the Calgary side of things, playing along the lines of Couturier with adds on each side; but I truly don't know what I'd say he's worth. (My problem is, not having watched many Cane's games, there's only so much you can get from a scoresheet + HF).

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04-25-2013, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
Well, the problem with Giordano, in my eyes, is the fact that the GM likes to look at him as a "off-limits" player that will quite possibly don the C next year (barring an unlikely return of #12).
And that's where my problem is located; as I only believe young kids who could change a team, or the franchise player of a team should be off-limits; while everyone else should be available for the right deal.

Giordano is a good 2/3 guy. He can either hold down a second pairing, among the best in the league, or he can... I don't want to say struggle, but, not have an excellent time, being in the number 1 shutdown role. Earlier this year, they had been playing him with Bouwmeester (Who is a #1 guy) and he was making too many mistakes and seemed behind the action quite a bit. Now that they moved him down to the second pairing, with Wideman, he's been quite good. Even as the main shutdown guy some nights (along with Brodie's pairing). I just don't think he was any good at keeping up with Bouwmeester.

His return should be up there. He's physical, has a nasty side. Is a leader in the dressing room. Has a cannon, and can chip in for 25-40 points a season generally. A solid guy to have on any team. Also his cap hit, for what he does, is on the fair to good side of things at 4 million.

There was talks on the Calgary side of things, playing along the lines of Couturier with adds on each side; but I truly don't know what I'd say he's worth. (My problem is, not having watched many Cane's games, there's only so much you can get from a scoresheet + HF).
I think that Muller and the coaching staff like how Gleason-Faulk is looking as our #1 pairing for the moment. If that were the case, where Giordano would hypothetically fit in depends on if Pitkanen is able to recover from his heel injury.

If he is:

Gleason-Faulk
Pitkanen-Giordano
Harrison-Murphy/1st rounder


would be what our defense probably stacks up as, with Corvo not re-signed, McBain packaged as part of the deal for Giordano, Bergeron gone, and either Sanguinetti re-signed to be the 7th dman, a Checkers player like Bellemore bumped up, or some other UFA signed for that role.

So...if you're keen on Rask...McBain + Rask + 2nd?

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04-25-2013, 01:17 AM
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So...if you're keen on Rask...McBain + Rask + 2nd?
I'd jump on that deal. Then again, on the Calgary forum, I don't know how much people agree with me .

For me I see it as a win-win for both teams.

Calgary gets a potential top 6 center, a young D-man with maybe a bit more upside then he's shown and another pick in the top 40 (if the second's for this year).

Carolina gets their second pairing physical D-man.

I mean, for me, I do it. Then again, if I speak for the Calgary Flames forum, I might get crucified lol

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04-25-2013, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
I'd jump on that deal. Then again, on the Calgary forum, I don't know how much people agree with me .

For me I see it as a win-win for both teams.

Calgary gets a potential top 6 center, a young D-man with maybe a bit more upside then he's shown and another pick in the top 40 (if the second's for this year).

Carolina gets their second pairing physical D-man.

I mean, for me, I do it. Then again, if I speak for the Calgary Flames forum, I might get crucified lol
If that were to happen, though...the improvement over some combination of the defensemen currently on the team would be phenomenal. As I've said, I don't want to trade Rask, but I think it would be worth it if we can finally fix the Achilles heel of this team in its defense.

We'd also be about at the same spot in regards to the salary cap, with the salaries/cap hits of McBain and Corvo equaling out to just a tad less than Giordano.

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04-25-2013, 02:47 AM
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Nice to hear good things about Rask. Would love to see him make the Canes roster soon. Does he strike you as maybe being able to play a third-line role next year in the NHL?

McBain is a disappointment right now, but I could see him turning it around and becoming an OK second-pair guy. He makes a nice breakout pass and generally pretty sound positionally, he just struggles in physical battles and has some confidence issues, IMO.

If I were a GM looking at the Canes d-men, though, I'd check out Sanguinetti. He's a better player all the way around.

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04-25-2013, 06:45 AM
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Unlike some here, I would move Pitkanen in a second if he would bring anyone worth while or close to it. Or even somehow just unload him. A shattered heel, regardless of modern medicine isn't an injury one easily rebounds back from and given his history, he will be lucky to play 40 games. McBain? No problem moving him. That said, the D needs lots of change so he may have to be held onto for now.

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04-25-2013, 07:51 AM
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My answer to the original question:



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04-25-2013, 07:52 AM
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I'll give you a nickel to take McBain!

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04-25-2013, 08:41 AM
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Everyone needs a scapegoat and mcbain has become one of ours. He has lost his confidence offensively which was his best asset. He needs to be moved because he is the classic "needs a change of scenery" player. He's worth a hell of a lot more than a nickel. This guy has played in a top 4 role every year of his career prior to this one, despite usually starting lower than that. He is experienced, is a legit 2 way guy and if trusted with pp time can put up reasonable points.

He could be worth at least the second round pick we spent to draft him. We spent one on sangs who had accomplished far less and looked at no point up to that better. An experienced but still young mcbain should worth as much.

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04-25-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
Giordano is a good 2/3 guy. He can either hold down a second pairing, among the best in the league, or he can... I don't want to say struggle, but, not have an excellent time, being in the number 1 shutdown role.
Boy, does that ever sound familiar.

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04-25-2013, 09:48 AM
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McBain is the current whipping boy de jour. We don't have FKabs or TKabs around, Corvo is on a one year deal, and Joni is hurt, so somebody has to be it. I agree with the "change of scenery" idea. Current value, 2nd rounder to break even or equivolent prospect.

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04-25-2013, 09:52 AM
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Some Rangers fans are fed up with Girardi (although I doubt the Rangers are). Some sort of deal involving McBain and Girardi might make some sense. They are both signed through next year.

I agree with the comments about him probably needing a change of scenery and how he is a current whipping boy, but in fairness, two straight coaches have made him a healthy scratch to start the season (although Lewis has been the defensive coach both years). Maybe they are asking for certain things for him to work on in the offseason (like strength/conditioning) and he isn't doing so? Just speculating.

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04-25-2013, 09:52 AM
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McBain is the current whipping boy de jour. We don't have FKabs or TKabs around, Corvo is on a one year deal, and Joni is hurt, so somebody has to be it. I agree with the "change of scenery" idea. Current value, 2nd rounder to break even or equivolent prospect.
You make it sound like we have only one whipping boy around here.

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04-25-2013, 10:05 AM
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Everyone needs a scapegoat and mcbain has become one of ours. He has lost his confidence offensively which was his best asset. He needs to be moved because he is the classic "needs a change of scenery" player. He's worth a hell of a lot more than a nickel. This guy has played in a top 4 role every year of his career prior to this one, despite usually starting lower than that. He is experienced, is a legit 2 way guy and if trusted with pp time can put up reasonable points.

He could be worth at least the second round pick we spent to draft him. We spent one on sangs who had accomplished far less and looked at no point up to that better. An experienced but still young mcbain should worth as much.
I don't think McBain meshes with Muller and he needs a change of scenery... however he is in a weird spot where he is probably only worth a 2nd, but is a high-end 2nd round pick himself.

I just don't see the Canes picking a 2nd rounder that will be better than him. Justin Faulk was an extremely lucky pick, that won't happen again. As much as I dislike some of what McBain does, trading him for a 2nd is a downgrade IMO.

Ideally we could trade him for a similar, more defensive minded D prospect with potential. Someone like Duncan Siemens from the Avalanche.

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04-25-2013, 10:26 AM
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25 year old RH defenseman who have played over 200 NHL games don't exactly grow on trees.

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04-25-2013, 11:20 AM
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Nice to hear good things about Rask. Would love to see him make the Canes roster soon. Does he strike you as maybe being able to play a third-line role next year in the NHL?

McBain is a disappointment right now, but I could see him turning it around and becoming an OK second-pair guy. He makes a nice breakout pass and generally pretty sound positionally, he just struggles in physical battles and has some confidence issues, IMO.

If I were a GM looking at the Canes d-men, though, I'd check out Sanguinetti. He's a better player all the way around.
Rask, I wouldn't want to see him on a third line, where you want more physicality. He is a mega skilled, great skating kid. Want him in a top six role in my opinion.

Should watch how he turns, it's so tight, like right on a dime. Just skilled, like crazy skilled.

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04-25-2013, 11:26 AM
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If they got more than a 4th for him, I'd be surprised.

He's 25 now. Physically, he just never developed. He doesn't seem to be improving his defensive instincts. Not sure why anyone would want him.

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