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for the messier bashers...

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Old
09-30-2003, 05:37 AM
  #26
Jackson Ranger
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In my opinion, Mess should have retired three years ago. The guy is washed up. His hands are gone, he is no longer physical and he just isn't the "leader" he was back in 1994.

Let's not forget that Lindros treated him like a rag doll during the playoffs in 1997! And as far as his leadership in 1994, don't also forget that there were three future head coaches (Lowe, MacTavish and Gilbert) playing for that team and another guy (Larmer) whose hockey knowledge is greater than all of the present Rangers combined.

And I still think Brian Noonan scored the game winning goal in Game 7 vs. Vancouver.

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09-30-2003, 07:43 AM
  #27
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The last time Messier was benched was by Keenan ('94 playoffs maybe?), and we all know what happened then. Keenan lost the locker room and the team just about mutinied because of Messier. The difference between Messier and just about every other player is that when the coach says "take a seat," most players take a seat. Messier just does what he wants.

THAT is why he is a problem. If he doesn't get what he wants, i.e. gets benched, he has in the past turned the team against the coach. Rumor has it something similar happened in Vancouver, but that is just rumor. In any event, no coach or GM would want that to happen to their team. The same leadership skills which are so strong on the ice can be turned to great detriment in the locker room should Messier not get his way.

With Mess, you have to take the good with the bad. The day a coach forces Mess to sit is the day the Rangers go from bad to worse. It would have been better for all around if he had never rejoined the Rangers.

-Khel

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09-30-2003, 08:29 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khelvan
THAT is why he is a problem.
That was true in the past, however it is NOT true today. Messier does not have run of the lockerroom. He may wear the "C", but his leadership days are long behind him. Don't get me wrong, he still has his "Mess pull", however he no longer dominates a lockerroom. That is why a new Captain is needed. One who is in touch with the current Rangers, not just those who played with him during his previous stint.

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09-30-2003, 12:43 PM
  #29
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What is your point?
trotts should have done what was best for the team... he should have sat messier if he refused to accept the role he gave him... i don't think trotts ever did try to restrict his role... my point is... if the coach refuses to discipline him and/or management refuses to allow coaches to sit him, i don't think that is messier's problem... he is still the player... and until you tell me that a coach told messier you can't play on the top 2 lines anymore and he refused to not play on the top two lines, you can't blame mess... if trotts refused to curb messier's playing time eventhough he felt it needed to be then he deserved to be fired... if he didn't realize that mess' ice time needed to be curbed, then he deserved to be fired...

Quote:
Keenan lost the locker room and the team just about mutinied because of Messier
when was this?... i don't remember this...

Quote:
Let's not forget that Lindros treated him like a rag doll during the playoffs in 1997
Lindros was MVP that year, i believe... and he did that to pretty much everybody... i'm not going to say mark hasn't lost a step... but i think mess can still contribute just not as a top 2 line player...

Quote:
So Messier is only capable of accepting reality from Sather?
i think this is just the first person to ask him to take a lesser role...

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09-30-2003, 12:55 PM
  #30
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"trotts should have done what was best for the team... he should have sat messier if he refused to accept the role he gave him... "

That would have never worked as all know that any coach could not do to Messier what they may have wanted to becuase of Sather.

"if the coach refuses to discipline him and/or management refuses to allow coaches to sit him, i don't think that is messier's problem... "

It may not be his problem, but he is the root of it.

"i think this is just the first person to ask him to take a lesser role..."

I think not. There has been talk that he should take a lesser role for 6 years now. I doubt that this is the first time that the subject has been broached to him.

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09-30-2003, 01:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I think not. There has been talk that he should take a lesser role for 6 years now.

talk by who?... us?... larry brooks?...

if trotts was not "allowed" to sit mess because of sather then he really needed to do it anyway and get himself fired or have a serious sitdown with glen...

but this is really just speculation on your part... i find it hard to believe that despite the fact that sather believed messier was done he refused to allow the coach to limit his ice time... the dolan's are stupid, but not that stupid to allow that to continue...

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10-01-2003, 05:01 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Pipo
get himself fired
Yeah, 'cause that happens all the time. Again, how many NHL coaches try to get themselves fired? Let's be a little realistic here.

"talk by who?... us?... larry brooks?..."

How about by everyone? By us? Yes. In the media for the past 6 years? Yes. But more importantly, how about by virtually every Rangers coach in every preseason interview (except Sather until recently).

"but this is really just speculation on your part... "

So given the above, it is hardly speculation.

"the dolan's are stupid, but not that stupid "

Want to rethink that?

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Old
10-01-2003, 05:11 AM
  #33
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I'm sure Trotts cuold've sat Mess...

but likely was afraid to sit anyone making over a couple mil as a result of losing his job once the team slid. It's rare that a coach, whose team was winning, losing his job because certain stars. I believe Trots willingly played Messier.

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