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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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05-02-2013, 02:36 PM
  #576
Hockey Nightmare
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If they believe the arena is that important for the revitalization of downtown, then just put the required money in and do it. I hear plans for a riverside beach and an arts centre. I'm not saying they're not worthy endeavors, but who exactly is clamoring for those things? Use at least some of the money that would go towards that and put it into the arena. Again, if the arena is as important as they say then it shouldn't be much of an issue, should it?

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05-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
If they believe the arena is that important for the revitalization of downtown, then just put the required money in and do it. I hear plans for a riverside beach and an arts centre. I'm not saying they're not worthy endeavors, but who exactly is clamoring for those things? Use at least some of the money that would go towards that and put it into the arena. Again, if the arena is as important as they say then it shouldn't be much of an issue, should it?
I agree - they've got all of these wonderful (ridiculous) plans... just move forward with the arena first.

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05-02-2013, 02:44 PM
  #578
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The master agreement is going to council next Wednesday. Despite the fact that Mayor Mandel keeps promising that the province will make up the shortfall he keeps getting rebuked. Because of that David Staples seems to think that council is going to vote against moving forward on Wednesday because they don't have a back-up plan for the remaining 55 million. Staples seems to be the only one talking about the deal failing so we'll wee what happens.
They don't have a back up plan for the 55M or the 45M coming out of MSI. What they have done is try to finance the 45M with yearly increments coming out of MSI. Only that MSI funding past a few years isn't a given. It could be changed, discontinued, etc.

Really the cities plan all along is to finance this entire arena without getting any of the income benefits of ownership. Because Lorna Rosen, using unsubstantiated figures, tells council any day every day that its worth billions to the city.

None of these arena's ever are.

But anyway, no news is good news on the taxpayer front.

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05-02-2013, 03:03 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
If they believe the arena is that important for the revitalization of downtown, then just put the required money in and do it. I hear plans for a riverside beach and an arts centre. I'm not saying they're not worthy endeavors, but who exactly is clamoring for those things? Use at least some of the money that would go towards that and put it into the arena. Again, if the arena is as important as they say then it shouldn't be much of an issue, should it?
It's people like you that got the funicular cancelled!!!

http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/65...ndola-project/

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05-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #580
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Anyway, now a councilor says it could be dead. So this is likely it.

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05-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #581
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It also hopes to have the provincial and the federal governments split an additional $14 million to cover two-thirds of the cost of the attached $21-million community rink.
How many times do they have to be told "NO!" before they understand what it means?

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05-02-2013, 03:52 PM
  #582
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Anyway, now a councilor says it could be dead. So this is likely it.
'The total cost of the project is $605 million, including the land on the north side of 104th Avenue, the city’s share of the Wintergarden walking bridge across 104th Avenue, an LRT link and a pedestrian corridor.'

From that article, I thought it was only $450M. The city needs to figure this thing out as costs just keep rising. The arena will get built eventually, they won't invest in a Northlands rebuild. Does it really need the extras like the Wintergarden. Redesign it so it is doesn't have a bunch of special designs and the city own it with a 35 year lease to Katz. If he wants to develop the area great.

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05-02-2013, 04:08 PM
  #583
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Sounds like they are just going to go ahead and build it and worry about the missing 55 million in 2015/16 when it needs to be paid out.

Put it on the back burner, get the arena half built, and let another council take the fall for whatever needs to be done to raise the remaining cash by the sounds of it.

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05-02-2013, 04:10 PM
  #584
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Cue another "Lets wait until its an absolute must where costs ballooned to triple the costs due to rising construction costs"?

Reminds me of the 23rd Ave interchange all over again.

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05-02-2013, 04:16 PM
  #585
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Meanwhile, the report also recommends spending another $8 million on design work needed to set a guaranteed maximum price before construction begins next spring.
Just to make sure the price doesn't go up eh? So who pays the 8M?

The irony in the above should come complete with a laughtrack.

Its funny that Sohi, who ran for council on a ticket of public transit, LRT to Millwoods, and community services and was ARDENTLY against public funding of an arena subsequently thought it OK for the city to front half a billion bucks for arena but is now quibbling over the last 10%.

Somebody explain this guy to me. I talk to him, phone him, he makes no sense at anytime.

The next civic election can't come quick enough.

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05-02-2013, 04:17 PM
  #586
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They voted in favour, knowing the current financing structure was dumb. If it does indeed die, I'd be asking them why they voted time and time again for this deal knowing that the money wasn't there.

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05-02-2013, 04:18 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by fysloc View Post
Cue another "Lets wait until its an absolute must where costs ballooned to triple the costs due to rising construction costs"?

Reminds me of the 23rd Ave interchange all over again.
Rising costs weren't the main reason for the 23rd ave interchange costing so much. Incompetence with who was in charge of that project was the issue.

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05-02-2013, 04:22 PM
  #588
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They voted in favour, knowing the current financing structure was dumb. If it does indeed die, I'd be asking them why they voted time and time again for this deal knowing that the money wasn't there.
For one thing because Mandel strangely kept telling them that the provincial money was there, that he couldn't reveal details, but that he'd been assured.

People believed Mandel. Looks like he was blowing smoke all along which I stated all along.

Instead of Stephen answering hard questions on why he misrepresented the provincial funding he hasn't stopped ranting about the province (due to him now looking silly)

So come clean Mandel. Name your provincial sources and what you were promised or say it was an out and out lie to steam ahead with this project.

Unbelievable. Few people on this city council deserve re-election.

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05-02-2013, 04:25 PM
  #589
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For one thing because Mandel strangely kept telling them that the provincial money was there, that he couldn't reveal details, but that he'd been assured.

People believed Mandel. Looks like he was blowing smoke all along which I stated all along.

Instead of Stephen answering hard questions on why he misrepresented the provincial funding he hasn't stopped ranting about the province (due to him now looking silly)

So come clean Mandel. Name your provincial sources and what you were promised or say it was an out and out lie to steam ahead with this project.

Unbelievable. Few people on this city council deserve re-election.
Yep, it was funny/sad seeing Madel get worked up the last little while after being to publicly over and over by Redford that he wasn't getting any money.

He just wants to get this arena deal done for good before the next election so he can bow out as mayor and get himself a nice job within the Katz group.

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05-02-2013, 04:27 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by fysloc View Post
Cue another "Lets wait until its an absolute must where costs ballooned to triple the costs due to rising construction costs"?

Reminds me of the 23rd Ave interchange all over again.
Construction costs do not always inflate.

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05-02-2013, 04:31 PM
  #591
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Yep, it was funny/sad seeing Madel get worked up the last little while after being to publicly over and over by Redford that he wasn't getting any money.

He just wants to get this arena deal done for good before the next election so he can bow out as mayor and get himself a nice job within the Katz group.
I don't think so entirely with respect to the bolded.

The arena from day one has been his resting legacy project. He's been overall a good mayor, with albeit some strange ideas and strong downtown bias for a regional city but on this Arena issue quite clear he's been willing to do anything to force it across. Indeed the Katz camp has realized this with their ever increasing demands through the negotiation and the hardball they have played.

Mandel is weak on this arena issue. It'll end up costing the city easily half a billion.

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05-02-2013, 04:45 PM
  #592
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Sohi is adamant about finding a solution before next Wednesday but he's still beating that "The Katz Group needs to step up" drum. Obviously, that's ideal but we all know that that's not going to happen.

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05-02-2013, 04:50 PM
  #593
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Thanks to all the people who made our great city a place to live. The Oil refinaries are so beautiful, industrial parks that kill ducks. Oil money everywhere for everyone including Redford and the Canadian Gov't, and the many people who have jobs and prosper because of it over the many years.

Too bad we can't take a bit of that revenue (from tax or elsewhere) to build a little something downtown to have a good time and enjoy life.

A Downtown District with a beach and shops would be great for a city of this size with nothing to but wash bituman from our hair then spend our money in Mexico.

Thanks again to all involved, at least Mandel has vision...

Hola !!! Cinco de mayo on Sunday !!

Enjoy our Tax money Quebec, you guys got it right, most beautiful cities in Canada.

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05-02-2013, 05:02 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Sohi is adamant about finding a solution before next Wednesday but he's still beating that "The Katz Group needs to step up" drum. Obviously, that's ideal but we all know that that's not going to happen.
If you know Sohi don't expect him to get it anytime soon.

This guy is in over his head as an alderman. Basically a nice guy but the "Teubert" of city council if you get my drift.

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05-02-2013, 05:24 PM
  #595
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Construction costs do not always inflate.
You must not work in construction...

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05-02-2013, 05:31 PM
  #596
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You must not work in construction...
Prices actually did drop 2-3 years ago.

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05-02-2013, 05:31 PM
  #597
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You must not work in construction...
As a matter of fact my job has a lot to do with construction costs and tracking them. Costs have gone up considerably over the last 10 years however there was a significant drop in 09/10. inflation was rather flat in 10/11 and it has gone up the last two years again.

If the price of oil nose dives and the oil patch suddenly goes stagnant some costs will go down 100% for sure. Just like many other things there are a lot of forces in play when it comes to inflation, cost of goods, cost of labor etc.

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05-02-2013, 05:32 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Construction costs do not always inflate.
What does this even mean? Are you suggesting the city waits until construction costs actually decrease to build the arena?

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05-02-2013, 07:11 PM
  #599
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If you know Sohi don't expect him to get it anytime soon.

This guy is in over his head as an alderman. Basically a nice guy but the "Teubert" of city council if you get my drift.
Yeah, I've always got that impression from Mr. Sohi.

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05-02-2013, 07:59 PM
  #600
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630 CHED tweeted earlier (so take it with a grain of salt) that city administration has recommended that city council still move forward on Wednesday regardless of the 55 million shortfall.

EDIT: They also tweeted this about 13 minutes ago.

Quote:
630CHED ‏@630CHED 13m
The DT arena is a step closer to reality and the province is boosting the school system in the #yeg area. More at 6 with @brendenullrich

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