HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-02-2013, 07:04 PM
  #601
Hockey Nightmare
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
That's what they recommended, but if you look at the journal, it seems like a lot of councilors aren't going to go for that.

Hockey Nightmare is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:07 PM
  #602
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
That's what they recommended, but if you look at the journal, it seems like a lot of councilors aren't going to go for that.
Hopefully some progress gets made between now and next Wednesday. I hate the idea that they're sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting to vote "nay." The provincial government has said no time and time again and if Mandel and councilors were just... waiting for their support without a back-up plan then I'm supremely disappointed.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:10 PM
  #603
Hockey Nightmare
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
David Staples suggests using a ticket tax for the last millions. Considering the fact that the place sells out all the time anyway - no matter how much the seats are, I don't see what the issue would be with that. IMO, Katz wouldn't lose much money if any.

Hockey Nightmare is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:11 PM
  #604
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
David Staples suggests using a ticket tax for the last millions. Considering the fact that the place sells out all the time anyway - no matter how much the seats are, I don't see what the issue would be with that. IMO, Katz wouldn't lose much money if any.
That's probably the most realistic solution, but would The Katz Group go for it? They've already turned that down haven't they?

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:12 PM
  #605
Marc08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
That's probably the most realistic solution, but would The Katz Group go for it? They've already turned that down, haven't they?
It is his call if he wants the deal done or not.

Marc08 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:16 PM
  #606
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc08 View Post
It is his call if he wants the deal done or not.
Indeed. But when it comes to compromise The Katz Group just refuses time and time again. Another Bettman mediation session might be in order.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:19 PM
  #607
Hockey Nightmare
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
Why don't they do something like this...raise the ticket tax for now. Commit to replacing that with any monies that become available in the future (like MSI increases, etc).

Hockey Nightmare is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:20 PM
  #608
Marc08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Indeed. But when it comes to compromise The Katz Group just refuses time and time again. Another Bettman mediation session might be in order.
Yes, and the Board of Governors would veto Katz's suggestion of relocating the Oilers if 20 owners or more do not agree Katz's suggestion.

Marc08 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:22 PM
  #609
Marc08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
Why don't they do something like this...raise the ticket tax for now. Commit to replacing that with any monies that become available in the future (like MSI increases, etc).
Raise Ticket Tax?
Not without Katz agreement

Raise MSI?
It is up to the provincial government if there are new MSI.

Marc08 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:23 PM
  #610
Hockey Nightmare
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc08 View Post
Raise Ticket Tax?
Not without Katz agreement

Raise MSI?
It is up to the provincial government if there are new MSI.
They would need Katz to agree, yes. But it's basically inevitable there will be new MSI funds of some sort. It's just a question of when.

Hockey Nightmare is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:25 PM
  #611
Marc08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
They would need Katz to agree, yes. But it's basically inevitable there will be new MSI funds of some sort. It's just a question of when.
It is purely Arena politics. The battle of ideologies imo.

Marc08 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 07:37 PM
  #612
Dorian2
Positional Bias.
 
Dorian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc08 View Post
It is purely Arena politics. The battle of ideologies imo.
Pretty much.

Gets pretty annoying, doesn't it.

Dorian2 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 08:31 PM
  #613
s7ark
Moderator
TheWorstEver
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,942
vCash: 500
OK, I had to clean this thread up again. I am getting tired of doing that in here. So from this point forward I will be very liberal with the thread bans. If you take the thread off topic, you will be removed. And I probably won't respond to requests to be added back. Final warning.

s7ark is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 10:45 PM
  #614
chrisj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
David Staples suggests using a ticket tax for the last millions. Considering the fact that the place sells out all the time anyway - no matter how much the seats are, I don't see what the issue would be with that. IMO, Katz wouldn't lose much money if any.
Hmm.

So lets say they needed to add $2 million/year over 35 years.

$2 million a year / 200 events a year (approx.) = $10,000 needed per event. That's under $1 extra per ticket. Not that unreasonable...

chrisj is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 10:51 PM
  #615
SeriousBusiness
T.Hall da man
 
SeriousBusiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
Hmm.

So lets say they needed to add $2 million/year over 35 years.

$2 million a year / 200 events a year (approx.) = $10,000 needed per event. That's under $1 extra per ticket. Not that unreasonable...
I don't think over 35 years works. Unless they take that amount out as a loan and pay it off via an increased ticket tax?

Katz must be pissed he gave $400k to the Tori election run and now they won't step up for him. This isn't how politics works!!!

On a separate note, I wonder what's going to happen if the supposed $45M from the province comes off the table since it's not guaranteed. How is city counsel getting away with not questioning this? The $55M that's still missing is really $100M.

SeriousBusiness is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:02 PM
  #616
chrisj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
I don't think over 35 years works. Unless they take that amount out as a loan and pay it off via an increased ticket tax?
Yep - that's why I said $2 million per year over 35 years. That's $70 million to account for interest. Not perfect math but even if its $2.5 million per year over 35 years...

(and actually, isn't the city able to borrow at low/no interest?)

Perhaps they could work a deal with the Katz group that if MSI funding becomes available... the ticket tax gets reduced to the original amount. Then everyone who was happy with the original deal is still happy (I realize some people still won't be happy... )

chrisj is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  #617
SeriousBusiness
T.Hall da man
 
SeriousBusiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
Yep - that's why I said $2 million per year over 35 years. That's $70 million to account for interest. Not perfect math but even if its $2.5 million per year over 35 years...

(and actually, isn't the city able to borrow at low/no interest?)

Perhaps they could work a deal with the Katz group that if MSI funding becomes available... the ticket tax gets reduced to the original amount. Then everyone who was happy with the original deal is still happy (I realize some people still won't be happy... )
My bad lol, I see what you're saying.

I think you're right that they're going to have to get a little creative with the funding structure now.

Seems like counsel is getting lazy. They're either for it or against it. No one is bringing any new ideas to the table. I'm assuming no one wants to stick their neck out, but if one of them grew a pair, they could really look good saving this deal when it was starting to look bleak.

Might be a power move for a counselor thinking of replacing Mandel during the next run. But it won't happen.

SeriousBusiness is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:43 PM
  #618
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
630 CHED tweeted earlier (so take it with a grain of salt) that city administration has recommended that city council still move forward on Wednesday regardless of the 55 million shortfall.

EDIT: They also tweeted this about 13 minutes ago.
It makes the most sense.

Provincial government isn't going to move on the money right now, city council is starting to worry about elections, and everyone really needs this to break ground instead of hitting highly publicized brick walls every few months.

They'll push it past the point of no return, and let some other council take the political fall for having to push the remaining funds into the project 3 years down the road.


Last edited by Tarus: 05-02-2013 at 11:55 PM.
Tarus is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 12:12 AM
  #619
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 53,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The master agreement is going to council next Wednesday. Despite the fact that Mayor Mandel keeps promising that the province will make up the shortfall he keeps getting rebuked. Because of that David Staples seems to think that council is going to vote against moving forward on Wednesday because they don't have a back-up plan for the remaining 55 million. Staples seems to be the only one talking about the deal failing so we'll wee what happens.
Thanks, I thought that it would be done by now, holy crap this thing is STILL dragging on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751 View Post
You're lucky because you can just go to Duke's.
Something just flew over my head apparently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Rising costs weren't the main reason for the 23rd ave interchange costing so much. Incompetence with who was in charge of that project was the issue.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is online now  
Old
05-03-2013, 12:39 AM
  #620
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
It makes the most sense.

Provincial government isn't going to move on the money right now, city council is starting to worry about elections, and everyone really needs this to break ground instead of hitting highly publicized brick walls every few months.

They'll push it past the point of no return, and let some other council take the political fall for having to push the remaining funds into the project 3 years down the road.
Well, with Sohi definitely changing his vote to "nay" without the 55 million what kind of a result could we be potentially looking at? Staples seems to think that the vote is going to sway in favor of "nay" with just a few stragglers like Krushell voting in favor of moving ahead. Thanks to Mandel's promises of provincial money they simply don't have a back-up plan.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 02:18 AM
  #621
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Well, with Sohi definitely changing his vote to "nay" without the 55 million what kind of a result could we be potentially looking at? Staples seems to think that the vote is going to sway in favor of "nay" with just a few stragglers like Krushell voting in favor of moving ahead. Thanks to Mandel's promises of provincial money they simply don't have a back-up plan.
We've been down this road before. The entire negotiation process have been full of political posturing and media grand standing, yet votes come up and the project goes forward regardless - usually with an overwhelming majority. Don't forget that it wasn't all that long ago that the deal was officially "dead", and council members were saying they couldn't fathom it going forward in it's current state. It comes as no surprise there is a report recommendation to go forward without the money the very day that the noise about the deal dying starts to pick up steam, par for course for these negotiations.

As I said, they'll probably vote to move forward, start the building process so there are no more opportunities to back out of the deal. Like any good group of politicians, they'll delay on the remaining missing money until they get the result they want from the provincial government, or someone else has to take the political heat for the fallout if that never happens.

Tarus is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 08:58 AM
  #622
Hockey Nightmare
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
How much was Glendale city council willing to spend on the situation with the coyotes in that utterly futile mess, and they don't even like hockey down there!

Hockey Nightmare is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 09:14 AM
  #623
gqmixmaster
Registered User
 
gqmixmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,166
vCash: 50
I really don't understand what is wrong with Rexall as it is, it works still and it sells out even given its location. If Katz wants more revenue, he should raise ticket prices. They will raise at the new building anyways.

gqmixmaster is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 09:21 AM
  #624
Metzen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
I really don't understand what is wrong with Rexall as it is, it works still and it sells out even given its location. If Katz wants more revenue, he should raise ticket prices. They will raise at the new building anyways.
Have you ever been to another arena? I suggest you go visit Nashville. Beautiful arena, walking distance to downtown... Just leaps and bounds a better experience and atmosphere.

In comparison, Edmonton doesn't even have an AHL quality arena.

Metzen is offline  
Old
05-03-2013, 09:39 AM
  #625
Jimmi Jenkins
Oilers' 14/15 Season
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
I really don't understand what is wrong with Rexall as it is, it works still and it sells out even given its location. If Katz wants more revenue, he should raise ticket prices. They will raise at the new building anyways.
If you "don't Understand what's wrong with Rexall", Watch More Closely when they show imagines of the Other buildings around the league. CBC showed shots of the outside of Staples Center (obviously named in honour of David Staples) in LA, if you can't understand the difference between that and Rexall, then I can't help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metzen View Post
Have you ever been to another arena? I suggest you go visit Nashville. Beautiful arena, walking distance to downtown... Just leaps and bounds a better experience and atmosphere.

In comparison, Edmonton doesn't even have an AHL quality arena.
You hit the Nail on the head, it's old and ugly, no way around it.

Jimmi Jenkins is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.