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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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05-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by fysloc View Post
Is there an attendence number for the anti arena rally? if there was one? I didn't even know about the rally until after it happened.

Also, the time of the rally sucks for most people, as they are all working.
Was it the downtown business association thing? That's all that I heard about and it wasnt really a rally it was just a group of interested people who stand to make a ton of money if the deals go through standing up and saying they think the arena should get built. There hasnt been any grass roots lobbying for the thing from regular joe public.

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05-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
So you think no one really knew that GM place was getting upgrade or that the Riders were working on getting a new barn or Quebec was in talks for an arena?
Quebec's thing was national news, so there's probably a bit more knowledge there (what with the feds being involved and the timing of that announcement with the return of the Jets to Winnipeg). GM place wasn't getting upgraded (you meant B.C. Place) and no, I don't think that loomed large in the public's consciousness. Regina? I vaguely recall reading something about them getting a new stadium. But unless you are following the CFL, you probably wouldn't be aware of that. Because Regina.

It could be there's some (low level) awareness of Edmonton's arena situation, but that's only half of it: the other claim is that not getting the arena would negatively impact people's conception of Edmonton. I think that's ludicrous. Few people are aware. fewer still care enough that it would impact their perception of the city.


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There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who are not Edmonton residents that would use the new arena every year. Pretty ignorant to think other wise.
I probably should have said Alberta to be honest. But the larger point stands.

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05-07-2013, 12:05 PM
  #703
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Quebec's thing was national news, so there's probably a bit more knowledge there (what with the feds being involved and the timing of that announcement with the return of the Jets to Winnipeg). GM place wasn't getting upgraded (you meant B.C. Place) and no, I don't think that loomed large in the public's consciousness. Regina? I vaguely recall reading something about them getting a new stadium. But unless you are following the CFL, you probably wouldn't be aware of that. Because Regina.

It could be there's some (low level) awareness of Edmonton's arena situation, but that's only half of it: the other claim is that not getting the arena would negatively impact people's conception of Edmonton. I think that's ludicrous. Few people are aware. fewer still care enough that it would impact their perception of the city.




I probably should have said Alberta to be honest. But the larger point stands.
You'd have to live in a hole in the ground and not follow any news outlet to not know we were attempting to build an arena. After the Seattle debacle many knew.

I do some travelling in the summer within Western Canada and a lot of people I've never meet before ask about the arena. Maybe people out east have no idea, but given how many easterners come to Alberta to work I'd be shocked if many out there don't know either.

Also given that more than a 1/3 of Canadians watched the Grey Cup, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the following of the CFL.

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05-07-2013, 12:08 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Quebec's thing was national news, so there's probably a bit more knowledge there (what with the feds being involved and the timing of that announcement with the return of the Jets to Winnipeg). GM place wasn't getting upgraded (you meant B.C. Place) and no, I don't think that loomed large in the public's consciousness. Regina? I vaguely recall reading something about them getting a new stadium. But unless you are following the CFL, you probably wouldn't be aware of that. Because Regina.

It could be there's some (low level) awareness of Edmonton's arena situation, but that's only half of it: the other claim is that not getting the arena would negatively impact people's conception of Edmonton. I think that's ludicrous. Few people are aware. fewer still care enough that it would impact their perception of the city.




I probably should have said Alberta to be honest. But the larger point stands.
No your point falls flat on its face.

This is huge news in Edmonton, big news in Alberta, and is well known about on a national scale. Claiming ignorance is not a point.

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05-07-2013, 12:11 PM
  #705
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For the small amount of production costs and market saturation I imagine it pays for itself in advertising.

This is a low budget production. How much could it possibly cost?
I know, I just find it funny as the Redford government seems to have taken the stance that the Oilers don't really matter to anybody outside of the greater Edmonton area.

"I'm a Bruins fan, actually. Hehe." - Redford

EDIT: The money that goes into "Oil Change" could be used to help people with mental health issues instead of contributing to something that destroys mental stability.


Last edited by Moonlapse Vertigo: 05-07-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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05-07-2013, 12:15 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I know, I just find it funny as the Redford government seems to have taken the stance that the Oilers don't really matter to anybody outside of the greater Edmonton area.

"I'm a Bruins fan, actually. Hehe." - Redford
I could only imagine the "shift" in dialog if the Flames were doing something of this ilk.

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05-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I know, I just find it funny as the Redford government seems to have taken the stance that the Oilers don't really matter to anybody outside of the greater Edmonton area.

"I'm a Bruins fan, actually. Hehe." - Redford
As a person who would be fine with this being 100% funded by any level of government, she really does have bigger fish to fry than this.

Soon as the rumors surrounding the budget came out I knew we'd have issues. Kinda hard to justify spending money on any sort of entertainment when there was money issues with regards to necessities.

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05-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #708
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I could only imagine the "shift" in dialog if the Flames were doing something of this ilk.
Oh, I'm sure that Mayor Nenshi already has the inside track on some sort of funding.

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05-07-2013, 12:20 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I could only imagine the "shift" in dialog if the Flames were doing something of this ilk.
I suspect once the Edmonton deal is done we start seeing a framework for CGY. They are just sitting patient and going to demand the same if not more to what we get. And if we get nothing Calgary will then go in to plan B and give reasons to why they deserve money.

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05-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
As a person who would be fine with this being 100% funded by any level of government, she really does have bigger fish to fry than this.

Soon as the rumors surrounding the budget came out I knew we'd have issues. Kinda hard to justify spending money on any sort of entertainment when there was money issues with regards to necessities.
She and her government (and the Stelmach government) dug their own graves. Watching them squirm and lie about it (the latter is par for the course for politicians) turns my stomach.

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05-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #711
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You have to wonder what any other party would have done given the deficit that everybody saw coming.

Even if I was pro everything oilers, if I was a politician with a deficit, I have priorities to handle first. Now is just not the time for arena funding due to current circumstances. Maybe when the budget is balanced and in surplus, there would have been no problems to boost infrastructure funding for indirectly funding the arena.

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05-07-2013, 12:46 PM
  #712
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You have to wonder what any other party would have done given the deficit that everybody saw coming.

Even if I was pro everything oilers, if I was a politician with a deficit, I have priorities to handle first. Now is just not the time for arena funding due to current circumstances. Maybe when the budget is balanced and in surplus, there would have been no problems to boost infrastructure funding for indirectly funding the arena.
A lot can change in 2, 3 years. I'm sure that there will be 55 million available at some point between now and when the arena is completed.

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05-07-2013, 12:51 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
You'd have to live in a hole in the ground and not follow any news outlet to not know we were attempting to build an arena. After the Seattle debacle many knew

I do some travelling in the summer within Western Canada and a lot of people I've never meet before ask about the arena. Maybe people out east have no idea, but given how many easterners come to Alberta to work I'd be shocked if many out there don't know either.
Knowing and caring are very different things. Whatever happens, this arena thing isn't going to change many people's minds about Edmonton.

Quote:
Also given that more than a 1/3 of Canadians watched the Grey Cup, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the following of the CFL
I'm sure that had zip to do with the half time entertainment featuring one of the biggest musical acts on the planet.

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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
No your point falls flat on its face.

This is huge news in Edmonton, big news in Alberta, and is well known about on a national scale. Claiming ignorance is not a point.
See above.

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05-07-2013, 12:53 PM
  #714
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I'm sure that had zip to do with the half time entertainment featuring one of the biggest musical acts on the planet.
The Grey Cup sees those viewership numbers on a yearly basis.

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05-07-2013, 01:53 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
What does this mean? Who cares?



Who are these people? I can't imagine anyone outside Edmonton beyond a few hardcore hockey fans and political junkies are even aware that there's a discussion going on.
The original post quoted. Had nothing to do with people caring.

Which in itself is wrong, because a lot of people want to check out this new barn if it's ever built. So I'd say to some degree people do care.

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05-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Knowing and caring are very different things. Whatever happens, this arena thing isn't going to change many people's minds about Edmonton.



I'm sure that had zip to do with the half time entertainment featuring one of the biggest musical acts on the planet.



See above.
See your post above where you talking about people knowing about the arena. Stop moving the goalposts. Whether people outside of Alberta care is irrelevant. But they do just so you know. People who work in Alberta and live all around the country are Hockey fans, music fans, shoppers and use hotels. They will use the new complex more than you think. My family from BC is constantly asking me when it's going to get built. They laugh at Alberta because we have way more $ than them but they have no issues building arenas and spending hundreds of millions on a football stadium. Quebecers are laughing at us because all they have to do is ask and they get a fully funded arena.

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05-07-2013, 03:37 PM
  #717
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See your post above where you talking about people knowing about the arena. Stop moving the goalposts. Whether people outside of Alberta care is irrelevant..
Except that's the only reason we got into this discussion. It started with this post:

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I'm starting to think the hit to the image of the city with cost them more than the missing 55 million if they vote no.
after all this time, effort and money already spent to just solidify Edmonton as being a frontier outpost and Hicksville.
people I speak with outside of the city already think the whole drawn out process is a joke and it will reflect quite poorly on the image of the city if the bail on it now.

Edmonton. where progress goes to die.
there is your new city slogan if they quit on the arena deal.
that's all people will think.
Quote:
But they do just so you know. People who work in Alberta and live all around the country are Hockey fans, music fans, shoppers and use hotels. They will use the new complex more than you think. My family from BC is constantly asking me when it's going to get built. They laugh at Alberta because we have way more $ than them but they have no issues building arenas and spending hundreds of millions on a football stadium. Quebecers are laughing at us because all they have to do is ask and they get a fully funded arena.
Even if that's true, which I don't believe for a second, it's a dumb reason to do anything.

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05-07-2013, 04:13 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
A lot can change in 2, 3 years. I'm sure that there will be 55 million available at some point between now and when the arena is completed.
Not to mention, the longer this is drawn out, the bigger that figure is going to be

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05-07-2013, 04:22 PM
  #719
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Not to mention, the longer this is drawn out, the bigger that figure is going to be
The easiest solution seems to be to build the arena - the primary building of contention - and get around to luxury items like the winter garden as the funds become available. It doesn't seem to be rocket science but they're sure treating it like it is.

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05-07-2013, 04:29 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The easiest solution seems to be to build the arena - the primary building of contention - and get around to luxury items like the winter garden as the funds become available. It doesn't seem to be rocket science but they're sure treating it like it is.
I think it's viewed as "so complicated" because some people imagine all the money is needed upfront, for some reason.

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05-07-2013, 04:33 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The easiest solution seems to be to build the arena - the primary building of contention - and get around to luxury items like the winter garden as the funds become available. It doesn't seem to be rocket science but they're sure treating it like it is.
Of course the easiest solution is to just build the thing, but to say stuff like the winter garden is a luxury item I don't agree with. The public support was for the design they are using, and any changes from that go directly against any shaky public support the thing had as it is. The winter garden is one of the main pieces of the overall project.

On a related note: have all savings from replacing exterior zinc with stainless steel been used up by waiting too long? If people keep arguing about ****, this thing is going to look like a 500million dollar Rexall Place. This city doesn't deserve nice things.

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05-07-2013, 04:36 PM
  #722
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I think it's viewed as "so complicated" because some people imagine all the money is needed upfront, for some reason.
And why do I get the feeling that it's The Katz Group pushing for everything to be "okay'd" immediately...

I could have sworn that council mulled over cutting the winter garden completely but Katz n' Friends disagreed with the decision.

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05-07-2013, 04:43 PM
  #723
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Of course the easiest solution is to just build the thing, but to say stuff like the winter garden is a luxury item I don't agree with. The public support was for the design they are using, and any changes from that go directly against any shaky public support the thing had as it is. The winter garden is one of the main pieces of the overall project.

On a related note: have all savings from replacing exterior zinc with stainless steel been used up by waiting too long? If people keep arguing about ****, this thing is going to look like a 500million dollar Rexall Place. This city doesn't deserve nice things.
You may be right. For all of the *****ing an moaning that the general public has done about this (necessary) project, if it opened without a winter garden... yup, I can just imagine the complaints. "This is what our tax dollars went in to?" "Rexall doesn't look any different!" "Yadda, yadda, yadda."

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05-07-2013, 04:44 PM
  #724
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Anyone else wanna just go to the site and start digging?

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05-07-2013, 04:46 PM
  #725
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I e-mailed City Council (from a private e-mail account) voicing my support for the arena... hopefully a lot of other people have done the same

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