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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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05-08-2013, 01:45 PM
  #776
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Delayed again. Delay, delay, delay.

So they've delayed it two weeks so that they can sit around and pray that the Alberta government steps forward amirite? Hows about they put their heads together and come up with a... I dunno... a solution?
Sounded as if this was for gone conclusion going in as they really had nothing to discuss other then putting a motion in to not talk about this today.

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05-08-2013, 02:14 PM
  #777
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Sounds like council and Farbrother finally realize that the "White Horse" i.e. the provincial government isn't stepping in. Farbrother and administration are going to try to find an alternative solution. Still, this is ridiculous. Even if they thought that the government would step in they should have had a contingency plan.

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05-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #778
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Katz Group Executive Vice President John Karvellas comments following council's deferral decision.

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=669874

Well, he's not acting snide and indignant. That's... good. I guess.

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05-08-2013, 02:20 PM
  #779
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Is anybody aware of the management details pertaining to Katz and Telus Field?

I've heard that Katz's management group has an iron clad arrangement over the use of Telus Field by any parties because of the Capitals, and that relationship hasn't quite worked out so well for the city.
Of course not, once the oilers saw there was no big money to be made they stopped caring but still wanted to hold the rights, much like the previous incarnation of their farm team. The city is a bunch of buffoons that get taken to the cleaner on just about anything major they put their hands to.

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05-08-2013, 02:22 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Delayed again. Delay, delay, delay.

So they've delayed it two weeks so that they can sit around and pray that the Alberta government steps forward amirite? Hows about they put their heads together and come up with a... I dunno... a solution?
Who is they? Because up to this point 'they' has been the city of Edmonton and the administration while the Katz group offers nothing at all except to indignantly shoot down any suggestions that do not meet their approval.

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05-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #781
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Who is they? Because up to this point 'they' has been the city of Edmonton and the administration while the Katz group offers nothing at all except to indignantly shoot down any suggestions that do not meet their approval.
'They' as in... everyone?

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05-08-2013, 02:42 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Sounds like council and Farbrother finally realize that the "White Horse" i.e. the provincial government isn't stepping in. Farbrother and administration are going to try to find an alternative solution. Still, this is ridiculous. Even if they thought that the government would step in they should have had a contingency plan.
Pretty much.

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05-08-2013, 02:44 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Who is they? Because up to this point 'they' has been the city of Edmonton and the administration while the Katz group offers nothing at all except to indignantly shoot down any suggestions that do not meet their approval.
If Katz isn't talking with the City about the funds and the Province isn't talking about funds then either the City comes up with a plan B or they pull the plug.

It's May we should be building, not deciding if we should build.

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05-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Of course not, once the oilers saw there was no big money to be made they stopped caring but still wanted to hold the rights, much like the previous incarnation of their farm team. The city is a bunch of buffoons that get taken to the cleaner on just about anything major they put their hands to.
You would think they would learn from past buisness dealings with him ... .I guess your right, once a buffoon always a buffoon.

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05-08-2013, 04:34 PM
  #785
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Is there any chance the Oilers leave Edmonton still?

And if so, when is the earliest this could/would happen?

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05-08-2013, 04:41 PM
  #786
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Is there any chance the Oilers leave Edmonton still?

And if so, when is the earliest this could/would happen?
Zero. When Hell freezes over.

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05-08-2013, 04:48 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Who says that will happen? Totally baseless comment on your part.
You just did -

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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
No, the city can just go on as they wish, they have spent the money, also there are a lot of cases of funding being oput out to see if something is viable in the business world. If it is not viable it gets shelved, happens all the time.
So they don't have the money to build it now, but they are just going to go ahead and build it anyways?

No, it'll get shelved, and then maybe down the road(many years is probable) they decide to put together a smaller project

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The problems are mitigated because the city does not give th4 sweetest deal of all time to the hockey team. We build the rink, we own the rink you can lease it.
The City will already own the arena, and is already leasing it to Katz.

You really think they are going to give less of a sweet-heart deal because they pay to build all of it, instead of just most of it?

Quote:
In god we trust all others must provide relevant unassailable data. Are you suggesting that public funds have been used to build every arena in the league?
No, I said NHL teams get all the revenue from their buildings.

But if you want to talk about public funds for building arenas, the public pays the majority -

Anaheim. Honda Center, built 1993, cost $120 million, all public money.

Atlanta. Philips Arena, 1999, $204 million, with 78 per cent coming from public funding, 22 per cent private.

Boston. TD Garden, 1995, $144 million arena, paid for by the team owners, but with $16 million in land donated by the government.

Buffalo. HSBC Arena, 1996, $122 million, $54 million in public funds.

Calgary. Pengrowth Saddledome, 1983, $100 million, all public money.

Carolina. RBC Center, 1989, $154 million, $134 million public money.

Chicago. United Center, 1999, $175 million, $30 million public money.

Columbus. Nationwide Arena, 2000, $175 million, all private money.

Denver. Pepsi Center, 1999, $180 million, $4.5 million public.

Detroit. Joe Louis Arena, 1979, $57 million, all public money.(New Arena will be partially publicly funded by the bankrupt city of Detroit)

Dallas. American Airlines Center, 1994, $380 million, $155 million public money.

Edmonton. Rexall Place, 1974, $69.7 million, all public money.

Florida. BankAtlantic Center, 1998, $212 million, $184.7 million public.

Long Island. Nassau Coliseum, 1972, $28 million, all public.

Los Angeles. Staples Center 1999, $400 million, $70.5 million public.

Manhattan. Madison Square Garden 1968 (renovated 1990), $200 million, all private.

Montreal. Bell Centre, 1996, $400 million, all private.

Nashville. Sommet Center, 1996, $144 million, all public.

Newark. Prudential Center, 2007, $467.5-million redevelopment around a new arena, $311.5 million public funds, according to the Newark Star-Ledger.

Ottawa. Scotiabank Place, 1996, Scotiabank Place, $146 million, private.

Philadelphia. The Wachovia Center, 1996, $217.5 million, $32 million public.

Phoenix. Jobbing.com Arena, 2003, $225 million, $180 million public.

Pittsburgh Penguins. Mellon Arena, 1967, $22 million, all public. To be replaced by the Consol Energy Center, 2010, $321 million, with $15 million a year from government for 30 years, $4.2 million a year from the Penguins.

The Penguins and the government each also put up $15.5 million to start, reports the PittsburghTribute-Review.

St. Louis. Scottrade Center, 1994, $170 million, $34.5 million public.

St. Paul. Xcel Energy Center, 2000, $130 million, $95 million in public funds.

San Jose. HP Pavilion, 1993, $162.5 million, $132.5 public.

Tampa. 1996, St. Pete Times Forum, $139 million, $124 million public funds.

Toronto. Air Canada Centre, 1999, $174.9 million, all private.

Washington Capitals. Verizon Center, 1997, $260 million, $60 million in public funds.

Vancouver. Roger's Place, 1995, $160 million, all private.

Which also doesn't account for problems building the arenas caused.
Ottawa - bankruptcy
Montreal - forced to sell team
Vancouver - forced to sell team
Columbus - Sold arena to the state after not being able to keep up with the loan payments, now receives a massive state subsidy on top of a sweetheart arena deal.

Here is also a fun little link that animates the public money spent on all arenas(NHL/NFL/MLB/NBA) over the last 100 years - http://deadspin.com/5964116/animated...s-of-taxpayers

Just a suggestion - Trust less in god, and more in google

Quote:
lol the city is essentially paying for it all as it is. This thing is not going to be some nice arena that luckily keeps a team in the city it's going to be a monumental cash cow with zero risk for the main tenant. The deal as it is stinks for the city. Don't tell me you are one of the sheep that actually thinks the team will move unless they get this gold plated deal?
I think the team moves if there is no arena, which is a distinct possibility if this deal falls through due to the incompetence of the various levels of government.

Without the push, demands, threats of a private party, this city doesn't get past the spitballing stage of arena plans. If you think they are with their own initiative, left to their own devices, are going to put together and execute a large, several hundred million dollar building project without a gun held to their heads on a project as high profile and polarizing as an arena, you're dreaming.

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I do agree with your laugh smiley though. That's what I did when I read your post
Wish I could say the same about your post, I was too busy muddling through your curious way of responding to posts. Just a heads up - using the quote function is just the same as using the bold script, just replace B /B with quote /quote.

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05-08-2013, 05:10 PM
  #788
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Have to wonder if there wasn't such a big political issue and media attention, the arena deal would have been done already.

I also believe that if nobody tried to push the city into building a new arena, we would already be seeing rexall place renovations which would put off building a new arena for another decade over the argument of "we just renovated this building, why build a new one so soon after renovations".

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05-08-2013, 05:49 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
Zero. When Hell freezes over.
Oh, and who is going to step in and save the Oilers when it comes down to it? Bettman won't, he's already stated that the league is not interested in another "Save the Oilers" campaign. If this falls through, and Katz wants out, well then the new Quebec team will probably come from Edmonton instead of Phoenix.

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05-08-2013, 06:11 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Oh, and who is going to step in and save the Oilers when it comes down to it? Bettman won't, he's already stated that the league is not interested in another "Save the Oilers" campaign. If this falls through, and Katz wants out, well then the new Quebec team will probably come from Edmonton instead of Phoenix.
Nah, Gone is going to step in and buy the team. That's why he can be so sure.

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05-08-2013, 06:54 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Oh, and who is going to step in and save the Oilers when it comes down to it? Bettman won't, he's already stated that the league is not interested in another "Save the Oilers" campaign. If this falls through, and Katz wants out, well then the new Quebec team will probably come from Edmonton instead of Phoenix.
Ha ha ha.
Yup, thats going to happen to an unbelievably profitable market.
Good one.

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05-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #792
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Ha ha ha.
Yup, thats going to happen to an unbelievably profitable market.
Good one.
So what's going to happen then? The team will perpetually play in a rink that is the laughing stock of the league, while Northlands laughs and collects their money from them. Or the city decides to renovate Rexall, costing seats, which in turn drives up ticket prices even further, and makes it harder for the team to turn a profit.

The city needs a new arena if they want to keep their hockey team, it's really that simple. No owner is going to be willing to play there for an extended period of time. Not Katz, not some new EIG, not some imaginary person you guys think is going to ride in and save the team all of a sudden.

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05-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #793
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So guys, are we ready for another round of frustration, disappointment, waiting, anger after what we have went through the shortened NHL season. Great

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05-08-2013, 07:50 PM
  #794
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they'll figure it out. they are not going to get this close and let it fail. raise the ticket tax and give Katz more of the increased tax revenue from the downtown development.

done. dig.

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05-08-2013, 07:51 PM
  #795
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they'll figure it out. they are not going to get this close and let it fail. raise the ticket tax and give Katz more of the increased tax revenue from the downtown development.

done. dig.
Yeah, it'll probably get done. It's just annoying to keep putting it off and making it cost more money.

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05-08-2013, 08:00 PM
  #796
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they'll figure it out. they are not going to get this close and let it fail. raise the ticket tax and give Katz more of the increased tax revenue from the downtown development.

done. dig.
Yeah, it'll get done, and the frustrating thing is watching city counsel sit on their hands waiting for someone else to come up with ideas for how to fund the remaining $55M. Apparently they're paid to do nothing at all.

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05-08-2013, 08:24 PM
  #797
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Yeah, it'll get done, and the frustrating thing is watching city counsel sit on their hands waiting for someone else to come up with ideas for how to fund the remaining $55M. Apparently they're paid to do nothing at all.


I think that sums it up nicely when thinking about city council doing nothing at all.

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05-08-2013, 08:41 PM
  #798
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Coun. Kerry Diotte said the Katz Group needs to step up.
"We've hit a wall," Diotte told his fellow councillors. "The public I'm hearing from in large majority is saying that the Katz Group must come up with more money to make this deal a go."
As Diotte said those words, a group in the council chamber loudly voiced their approval.
"Absolutely. Hear hear," they said, speaking over a row of Katz executives sitting directly in front of them.
Mandel stepped in.
"You know, part of being here today is showing respect for both parties," he told the hecklers.
An older man hollered back.
"Please show some respect for the citizens of this city Mr. Mandel, and put this (issue) on a plebiscite," he said.
"Quiet!" demanded Mandel.
"Put in on a plebiscite!" the heckler shouted back.


Yikes, it got nasty in the council chamber today.

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05-08-2013, 09:09 PM
  #799
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I think that sums it up nicely when thinking about city council doing nothing at all.
lol. But yeah, basically.

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05-08-2013, 09:30 PM
  #800
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Listenin to talk radio out of Edmonton I find it amusing how many people called up and said Rexall has at least a good 20 years left and compared it to Madison Square Garden--

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