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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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05-08-2013, 10:31 PM
  #801
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Way things are going up there, Calgary will become the entertainment capital of Alberta, and Edmonton will have great shiney balls and some of their potholes filled extra high! Bravo you backwards city of no relevance!! R.I.P

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05-08-2013, 10:41 PM
  #802
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Listenin to talk radio out of Edmonton I find it amusing how many people called up and said Rexall has at least a good 20 years left and compared it to Madison Square Garden--
Heh, old people.

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05-08-2013, 10:47 PM
  #803
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Yeah, it'll get done, and the frustrating thing is watching city counsel sit on their hands waiting for someone else to come up with ideas for how to fund the remaining $55M. Apparently they're paid to do nothing at all.
Care to enlighten the masses as to what brilliance the Katz group has come up with regarding the shortfall funds?

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05-08-2013, 10:54 PM
  #804
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Listenin to talk radio out of Edmonton I find it amusing how many people called up and said Rexall has at least a good 20 years left and compared it to Madison Square Garden--
Lot of people out there who have never been outside of the province. It's hard for them to understand the problems with Rexall when they have nothing to compare it with.

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05-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #805
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Yikes, it got nasty in the council chamber today.
Curious where you got the quote from. Were you watching the proceedings? Thats some interesting exchange if its for real.

Indeed Mandel in that situation would only be saying shut up because he damn well knows what the general public, and voters think about his hair brained deal.

Kudos to the peanut gallery attending, stepping up and making their mark. Mandel apparently had nothing good to say in response.

Got outed right in his chamber. Good for him. High time he's dealing with that on a regular basis.

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05-08-2013, 11:17 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Listenin to talk radio out of Edmonton I find it amusing how many people called up and said Rexall has at least a good 20 years left and compared it to Madison Square Garden--
lots of idiots everywhere i guess

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05-08-2013, 11:42 PM
  #807
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Care to enlighten the masses as to what brilliance the Katz group has come up with regarding the shortfall funds?
You and I are not paying Katz's salary to make decisions on behalf of the citizens of Edmonton. Our tax money is going to those counselors however. So expecting them to do their jobs and find solutions to the problems that are plaguing this arena issue isn't out of line in my opinion.

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05-08-2013, 11:45 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Curious where you got the quote from. Were you watching the proceedings? Thats some interesting exchange if its for real.

Indeed Mandel in that situation would only be saying shut up because he damn well knows what the general public, and voters think about his hair brained deal.

Kudos to the peanut gallery attending, stepping up and making their mark. Mandel apparently had nothing good to say in response.

Got outed right in his chamber. Good for him. High time he's dealing with that on a regular basis.
It's all over the internet right now.

Here's the National Post article.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...ve-arena-deal/

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05-08-2013, 11:48 PM
  #809
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Seeing Karvellas' interview outside of city hall revealed a lot more than the audio interview did. His body language was brutal when asked about the health of the arena deal. He said that he was confident that it's still a go but his eyes and body language told another story. He was virtually shaking. Was he angry? Was it something else? His reaction to the idea that The Katz Group should put more money in was also puzzling. He's against the ticket tax but he refused to comment on whether they would add more money in a direct sense. Weird stuff.

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05-09-2013, 12:16 AM
  #810
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Why doesn't Katz just put the team up for sale and cash out?

If there will be no potential suitors that are willing to keep the team in Edmonton he will have the city eating out of his hand, and he will get whatever concessions he wants.

And if there are potential buyers well that is good for everybody, and Katz can go focus on his pharmacy empire.

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05-09-2013, 12:18 AM
  #811
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Why doesn't Katz just put the team up for sale and cash out?

If there will be no potential suitors that are willing to keep the team in Edmonton he will have the city eating out of his hand, and he will get whatever concessions he wants.

And if there are potential buyers well that is good for everybody, and Katz can go focus on his pharmacy empire.
Except that a new owner won't necessarily be willing to put up money for a new arena.

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05-09-2013, 12:22 AM
  #812
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Except that a new owner won't necessarily be willing to put up money for a new arena.
Well we won't know until it all actually happens. And if no potential owners are willing to put up money for a new arena that is obviously a point for Katz.

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05-09-2013, 12:25 AM
  #813
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Wasn't that the reason why the EIG ultimately sold to Katz? They saw the writing on the wall and the need for a new arena but they knew that they couldn't afford to contribute a dime towards it.

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05-09-2013, 12:28 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Wasn't that the reason why the EIG ultimately sold to Katz? They saw the writing on the wall and the need for a new arena but they knew that they couldn't afford to contribute a dime towards it.
Yep

Cal Nichols said it himself.

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05-09-2013, 12:37 AM
  #815
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Yep

Cal Nichols said it himself.
Yeah. I wonder how this would all be unfolding if Katz had come on board as a shareholder instead of the sole owner.

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05-09-2013, 12:48 AM
  #816
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As I'm an Edmonton City taxpayer, but not an Oilers fan, I mostly stay away from this forum, but check in from time to time.

I fully support a new arena for Edmonton.

But why oh why is no one discussing the obvious - design a cheaper arena! You don't need to spend $450mil on a hockey arena!

The fact there is a $55mil shortfall seems to spell out the obvious to me... design an arena that costs $55 mil less...

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05-09-2013, 12:51 AM
  #817
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As I'm an Edmonton City taxpayer, but not an Oilers fan, I mostly stay away from this forum, but check in from time to time.

I fully support a new arena for Edmonton.

But why oh why is no one discussing the obvious - design a cheaper arena! You don't need to spend $450mil on a hockey arena!

The fact there is a $55mil shortfall seems to spell out the obvious to me... design an arena that costs $55 mil less...
Cause Uncle Daryl wants a real purdy one. You know, to help out his adjacent developments.
With other peoples money of course.

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05-09-2013, 12:52 AM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
As I'm an Edmonton City taxpayer, but not an Oilers fan, I mostly stay away from this forum, but check in from time to time.

I fully support a new arena for Edmonton.

But why oh why is no one discussing the obvious - design a cheaper arena! You don't need to spend $450mil on a hockey arena!

The fact there is a $55mil shortfall seems to spell out the obvious to me... design an arena that costs $55 mil less...
Ultimately they might have to go back to the drawing board but the design phase takes time and this arena debate has already raged on for 5+ years. There's also no guarantee that a new design will be that much cheaper with development costs on the rise as time marches forward. The Oilers' lease with Northlands expires in 2014 and with The Katz Group already having to re-up their lease for a further two years... I doubt that they'll want to wait even longer while a new building/complex is designed. It's **** or get off the pot time.


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05-09-2013, 12:59 AM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Ultimately they might have to go back to the drawing board but the design phase takes time and this arena debate has already raged on for 5+ years. There's also go guarantee that a new design will be that much cheaper with development costs on the rise as time marches forward. The Oilers' lease with Northlands expires in 2014 and with The Katz Group already having to re-up their lease for a further two years... I doubt that they'll want to wait even longer while a new building/complex is designed. It's **** or get off the pot time.
Oilers leaving Edmonton is a red herring. This is not the 90s, that threat isn't going to work.

Build a more traditional arena (dare I say... like the MTS Centre) and easily save $50-$100 mil in construction costs.

I'm not opposed to private funds going towards a new arena. Hell my office looks over the proposed new arena site. I think a new arena would do wonders for the city. Just give up this idea you need an "iconic" arena.

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05-09-2013, 01:05 AM
  #820
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Yeah. I wonder how this would all be unfolding if Katz had come on board as a shareholder instead of the sole owner.
As a group, they had more financial clout than Katz, but they had no interest in reinvesting in the franchise, any financial model with the EIG would have been 100% publicly funded. Only real benefit of joining the group for Katz would have been the inability for Edmontionians to single out and vilify him as the "Evil Billionaire".

It's debatable he could have even joined for any sustainable amount of time anyways. There were long held fractures within the group from prior internal power struggles, and the group itself was aging with a poor model for obtaining new investment. They barely lasted 6 months before the group ties began to fray after the first opportunity to cash out came along.

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05-09-2013, 01:15 AM
  #821
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As a group, they had more financial clout than Katz, but they had no interest in reinvesting in the franchise, any financial model with the EIG would have been 100% publicly funded. Only real benefit of joining the group for Katz would have been the inability for Edmontionians to single out and vilify him as the "Evil Billionaire".

It's debatable he could have even joined for any sustainable amount of time anyways. There were long held fractures within the group from prior internal power struggles, and the group itself was aging with a poor model for obtaining new investment. They barely lasted 6 months before the group ties began to fray after the first opportunity to cash out came along.
Yeah, I remember that a lot of guys wanted out almost as soon as they got in. These facts just make Terry Jones' "Katz's hostile takeover" comments and columns even more comical.

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05-09-2013, 01:17 AM
  #822
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Oilers leaving Edmonton is a red herring. This is not the 90s, that threat isn't going to work.

Build a more traditional arena (dare I say... like the MTS Centre) and easily save $50-$100 mil in construction costs.

I'm not opposed to private funds going towards a new arena. Hell my office looks over the proposed new arena site. I think a new arena would do wonders for the city. Just give up this idea you need an "iconic" arena.
It doesn't make any sense but this is the NHL that we're talking about. New facilities and fancy new amenities trump market stability 9 times out of 10. That's why the league is fighting tooth and nail for Phoenix. They've got a new building and a 30 year lease. We have neither.

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05-09-2013, 01:20 AM
  #823
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It's all over the internet right now.

Here's the National Post article.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...ve-arena-deal/
Thank you sir. Doing too much work these days to keep up with this stuff.

Very revealing exchange, classic really, and thanks for sharing it.

Mandel is wearing no clothes on this issue.

Outed.

When will he ever respond to what many have been demanding, putting this to a plebiscite.

Imagine in a democracy ignoring for years all the polls suggesting the voters are against this funding proposal and particular deal and shouting quiet when someone calls him on it.

Imperious moment, indelible really. Mandel has truly jumped the shark here. Time to step down after lying about the provincial funding and having zero remaining credibility on this issue. Maybe he should be quiet.

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05-09-2013, 01:25 AM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Yeah, I remember that a lot of guys wanted out almost as soon as they got in. These facts just make Terry Jones' "Katz's hostile takeover" comments and columns even more comical.
There was a bit of an internal race to buy up the shares before other members sold to Katz, but the opposing group realized they weren't going to find the investors and would have to borrow huge sums of money to make it work. Not surprisingly they conceded.

Jones has had an agenda from day one though, he's clearly taken it personally that Katz has no interest in partying with the media.

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05-09-2013, 01:29 AM
  #825
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It doesn't make any sense but this is the NHL that we're talking about. New facilities and fancy new amenities trump market stability 9 times out of 10. That's why the league is fighting tooth and nail for Phoenix. They've got a new building and a 30 year lease. We have neither.
And what facility to you see the Oilers moving to? Kansas? The league isn't fighting for Phoenix because of the arena...

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