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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #851
T-Funk
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What about the other 30 mil?
That will be coming directly from Replacement's pockets.

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05-09-2013, 12:44 PM
  #852
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I've never liked this deal, he is taking the citizens of Edmonton to the cleaners and he knows it. His behavior has been abhorent, tugging on the emotional attachment of Edmontonians to this team and his continuous (hollow) threats of moving.

Well Mr. Katz, if life is so bad here, move your team. We will get another.
It's this line of thinking that baffles me. We'll just get another team. Heck even if we do is there some expectation that we'll get a new team with a new owner who'll fund a new arena out of his own pocket? Is that what you're inferring?

I'm no expert but from the deals I've seen for new Arena's in the last 10 years I've been told that the City's deal with Katz is one of the better ones. Can anyone clarify that?

If I had it my way the players would make a lot less money so owners could build and support their own arena's and the government would have no involvement other than collect the taxes and approving the zoning.

The reality is that only the richest of teams builds their own Arena's. I read somewhere every private arena adventure in Canada resulted in the builder going bankrupt?

It's not a matter of we'll get a team later. It's a debate on whether the team should exist at all.

Perhaps one day when the Economy really goes **** up we'll see the sports leagues fall back to earth. Player salaries reduced when governments decide they absolutely can't fund projects like this.

Players pit teams against each other for contracts. Owners do the same thing with their franchises to other cities. Thank god the NHL isn't all that popular in the States.

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:49 PM
  #853
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Not to dispute it as I've honestly never heard of this argument before, but what is this based on?
We pay Sheldon Souray 5 million year for 3 years. He buys a house and lives here for a few years and buys some goods. He then leaves an sells his house taking the vast majority of that money elsewhere. Ales Hemsky goes back to Czech a lot of years and when he is done might very well go back there. A lot of NHL players go back to their roots when they are done and take the money with them or move on to other teams and other cities. The amount that is paid in taxes and some purchases does not = a net gain but rather a net loss because they are paid so highly.

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05-09-2013, 01:32 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
It's this line of thinking that baffles me. We'll just get another team. Heck even if we do is there some expectation that we'll get a new team with a new owner who'll fund a new arena out of his own pocket? Is that what you're inferring
No, you're inferring that.

Some random thoughts:

- It's true that pro teams take a lot of money out of the local economy, but probably bring in a great deal also, with the spending by visiting teams and, very importantly, people who come into town to attend games. The latter factor is huge.
- I don't live in Edmonton but the Capital Region Board voted today to ask the province for funding ($25 million) to represent a contribution from regional municipalities. I think that's fair, but I think regional municipalities should look favourably on that idea. I'm one of those decision makers and I don't know how it would be received by the members of the CRB (it probably wouldn't get wide-spread support, but who knows?) but maybe that's next on Edmonton's to-do list.
- Katz is getting less and less likable with every passing day. He just doesn't get it. How wealthy does the guy need to be, especially when it's built on the backs of taxpayers and his case isn't at all defensible to a right-thinking, unbiased person?
- As for a ticket tax, if Katz won't do the right thing and pony up with some more money for an arena that is mostly being built for his enterprise, then I say force him to pay for this through a ticket tax.
- I want this new arena as much as anyone, but I think the decision yesterday was the right one by city council.
- This on, off, on, off crap is giving Edmonton a bad rep. It's time to get this done, and Katz needs to pay more.

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:38 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
No, you're inferring that.

Some random thoughts:

- It's true that pro teams take a lot of money out of the local economy, but probably bring in a great deal also, with the spending by visiting teams and, very importantly, people who come into town to attend games. The latter factor is huge.
- I don't live in Edmonton but the Capital Region Board voted today to ask the province for funding ($25 million) to represent a contribution from regional municipalities. I think that's fair, but I think regional municipalities should look favourably on that idea. I'm one of those decision makers and I don't know how it would be received by the members of the CRB (it probably wouldn't get wide-spread support, but who knows?) but maybe that's next on Edmonton's to-do list.
- Katz is getting less and less likable with every passing day. He just doesn't get it. How wealthy does the guy need to be, especially when it's built on the backs of taxpayers and his case isn't at all defensible to a right-thinking, unbiased person?
- As for a ticket tax, if Katz won't do the right thing and pony up with some more money for an arena that is mostly being built for his enterprise, then I say force him to pay for this through a ticket tax.
- I want this new arena as much as anyone, but I think the decision yesterday was the right one by city council.
- This on, off, on, off crap is giving Edmonton a bad rep. It's time to get this done, and Katz needs to pay more.
You know for how much people hate Katz and his antics why does his fortune keep growing?

He could careless what the perception of himself is.

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05-09-2013, 01:41 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
We pay Sheldon Souray 5 million year for 3 years. He buys a house and lives here for a few years and buys some goods. He then leaves an sells his house taking the vast majority of that money elsewhere. Ales Hemsky goes back to Czech a lot of years and when he is done might very well go back there. A lot of NHL players go back to their roots when they are done and take the money with them or move on to other teams and other cities. The amount that is paid in taxes and some purchases does not = a net gain but rather a net loss because they are paid so highly.
OK, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks.

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05-09-2013, 01:51 PM
  #857
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What about the other 30 mil?
Just sell some if the art and artifacts from the art gallery and museum. Problem solved!

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05-09-2013, 02:07 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
What about the other 30 mil?
That will be coming directly from Replacement's pockets.
From his Tilapia farming business? I keed, I keed.

Actually, I would like to see the management of Rexall Sports try and pull off a $50 million diamond heist. It would be fodder for comedies for years to come, which Katz can back and make the $30 million in profits from those movies.

How about KickStarter.

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Old
05-09-2013, 02:16 PM
  #859
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If the province comes up with the $25 million, I'd have to think that city council will make this happen and look for the missing $25 million later. It's not like it's really needed now anyway.

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05-09-2013, 02:17 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
No, you're inferring that.

Some random thoughts:

- It's true that pro teams take a lot of money out of the local economy, but probably bring in a great deal also, with the spending by visiting teams and, very importantly, people who come into town to attend games. The latter factor is huge.
- I don't live in Edmonton but the Capital Region Board voted today to ask the province for funding ($25 million) to represent a contribution from regional municipalities. I think that's fair, but I think regional municipalities should look favourably on that idea. I'm one of those decision makers and I don't know how it would be received by the members of the CRB (it probably wouldn't get wide-spread support, but who knows?) but maybe that's next on Edmonton's to-do list.
- Katz is getting less and less likable with every passing day. He just doesn't get it. How wealthy does the guy need to be, especially when it's built on the backs of taxpayers and his case isn't at all defensible to a right-thinking, unbiased person?
- As for a ticket tax, if Katz won't do the right thing and pony up with some more money for an arena that is mostly being built for his enterprise, then I say force him to pay for this through a ticket tax.
- I want this new arena as much as anyone, but I think the decision yesterday was the right one by city council.
- This on, off, on, off crap is giving Edmonton a bad rep. It's time to get this done, and Katz needs to pay more.
I'm inferring that when people say. WE'LL JUST GET ANOTHER TEAM BACK.

Tell me.. how will that happen? With a new owner buying a team and an arena?
Is that the expectation?

You want to play chicken with Katz. Fine maybe it will work. Perhaps the deal is so lucrative to him that he'll pony up some more cash.

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Old
05-09-2013, 02:26 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
It's this line of thinking that baffles me. We'll just get another team. Heck even if we do is there some expectation that we'll get a new team with a new owner who'll fund a new arena out of his own pocket? Is that what you're inferring?
The opposite is what amazes me, when people think that if he doesnt get absolutely everything he asks for he'll take the Oilers out of here in a second. There is one, possibly two, markets he could go to that might give him the return he has received her through thick and thin. Sure if he has a winning team he might do well in a US market but one that isnt challenging for a championship regularly or worse hasnt made the playoffs in 7 years is going to flounder.

There is a deal to be made here and if Katz has to budge a bit he'll still be better off than moving to Seattle or Kansas City.

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05-09-2013, 02:32 PM
  #862
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Truth is, Katz is the only one who's stepped up.

I don't see anyone else doing it. So someone else is going to move a team here and build a new arena for us? Who? If it's as easy as that, why is no one else stepping up now to help out? We had the EIG years ago and they didn't have the deep pockets for an arena. So what's the alternative? Where is this mythical billionaire private investor/oiler fan and where can we get hold of him?

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05-09-2013, 02:38 PM
  #863
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I think its kind of funny how the original lets make an arena deal now seems way better than what we have now.

100 million he pledged upfront when he bought the team seems to have been the best deal, then the negotiations started and then it was 100 million spread over 35 years to 100 million in lease payments.

So basically whoever is negotiating for the city sucks is what my unprofessional opinion is.

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05-09-2013, 02:39 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
Truth is, Katz is the only one who's stepped up.

I don't see anyone else doing it. So someone else is going to move a team here and build a new arena for us? Who? If it's as easy as that, why is no one else stepping up now to help out? We had the EIG years ago and they didn't have the deep pockets for an arena. So what's the alternative? Where is this mythical billionaire private investor/oiler fan and where can we get hold of him?
Oh, Im pretty confident there are just a few owners out there that would be more than happy to have their franchise here than where they are right now.
Thats a crazy guess though.
Based on logic.
And profit.

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05-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
Truth is, Katz is the only one who's stepped up.

I don't see anyone else doing it. So someone else is going to move a team here and build a new arena for us? Who? If it's as easy as that, why is no one else stepping up now to help out? We had the EIG years ago and they didn't have the deep pockets for an arena. So what's the alternative? Where is this mythical billionaire private investor and where can we get hold of him?
If we did get a hold of him, would we then run him out of town?

No one in this town wants a rich guy to get richer off the arena project even if the city stands to benefit. They would rather the city not profit from it as long as Batman doesn't profit.

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05-09-2013, 02:56 PM
  #866
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If we did get a hold of him, would we then run him out of town?

No one in this town wants a rich guy to get richer off the arena project even if the city stands to benefit. They would rather the city not profit from it as long as Batman doesn't profit.
Rubbish. There may be small and vocal minority that thinks that, but most people would be fine with an equitable deal that offered the city a real return on its investment or at very least involved Katz shouldering some of the risk.

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:03 PM
  #867
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Rubbish. There may be small and vocal minority that thinks that, but most people would be fine with an equitable deal that offered the city a real return on its investment or at very least involved Katz shouldering some of the risk.
Agreed.

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05-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
What about the other 30 mil?
Just take some from this.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/enter...851/story.html


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Old
05-09-2013, 03:08 PM
  #869
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Oh, Im pretty confident there are just a few owners out there that would be more than happy to have their franchise here than where they are right now.
Thats a crazy guess though.
Based on logic.
And profit.
where would they play?

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:18 PM
  #870
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Maybe don't do stuff like this http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...maryReport.pdf

Am I reading these numbers correctly? Sweet baby Jesus.

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05-09-2013, 03:26 PM
  #871
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Maybe don't do stuff like this http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...maryReport.pdf

Am I reading these numbers correctly? Sweet baby Jesus.
Ah yes the bike paths, still not sure what is wrong with sidewalks for bikes.

Want to put some paths throughout the river valley and such fine, but what's the point in taking away from the vehicles?

Car vs bike

or

bike vs person

Seems like common sense to me.

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05-09-2013, 03:28 PM
  #872
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The idea that he would move the team is more than ridiculous. Edmontonians, have some self respect as a municipality. Why is'nt the NHL moving Phoenix? Cause there are no viable markets to go to. Outside of a 2nd team in Toronto (the Leafs will fight this hard) and Quebec City (this will be an expansion market) where would Katz take the Oilers that he could make anywhere near the money he makes here. At the very worst he might sell the team, but the NHL has saturated there markets in North America.... I say let him sweat it out and make up at least a portion of the shortfall from his own pocket.

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05-09-2013, 03:39 PM
  #873
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Ah yes the bike paths, still not sure what is wrong with sidewalks for bikes.

Want to put some paths throughout the river valley and such fine, but what's the point in taking away from the vehicles?

Car vs bike

or

bike vs person

Seems like common sense to me.
There are 2 places bikes should not be allowed on sidewalks: Whyte Ave and Jasper Ave. There, I just saved us what looks like 98 million dollars.

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05-09-2013, 03:43 PM
  #874
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
I'm inferring that when people say. WE'LL JUST GET ANOTHER TEAM BACK.

Tell me.. how will that happen? With a new owner buying a team and an arena?
Is that the expectation?

You want to play chicken with Katz. Fine maybe it will work. Perhaps the deal is so lucrative to him that he'll pony up some more cash.
I agree with you.

But you missed my point.




Regarding moving the team, I really don't see that happening. The league must approve a move and like or hate Bettman, he won't let that happen.

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05-09-2013, 03:58 PM
  #875
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The bike paths are just one example. I keep hearing about spending public $$$ on schemes that either make little sense to me or are almost completely superfluous. Virtually no one would miss them if they weren't there. But the arena is the only thing people decide to get up in arms about. Yeah, it's bigger spending but the other things add up.

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