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Johan Franzen for a Top 3 Defenseman

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:57 AM
  #1
Jimbo7200
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Johan Franzen for a Top 3 Defenseman

I don't think this will happen, I'm just gauging the temperature on this guy.

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01-24-2013, 01:08 AM
  #2
Numbers
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Ballard + 1st

I know is not a top 3, but he could be a top 4 on many teams and if played like he has in the past he definitely can be a top 3 on Detroits current roster.

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01-24-2013, 01:30 AM
  #3
rumrokh
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Ballard + 1st

I know is not a top 3, but he could be a top 4 on many teams and if played like he has in the past he definitely can be a top 3 on Detroits current roster.
Detroit would take this and run.

***

I think Detroit is just going to have to choke on Franzen's contract. He's 33 and is signed for a good chunk of money until he's 40. His huge selling point, his playoff prowess, has been non-existent the last two seasons, and he is not looking good this year. Even assuming Detroit eats the most they can of his salary, the team who gets Franzen is going to get boned on the cap hit recapture rule.

Best case scenario, deal him to a playoff team who needs forward depth. Pittsburgh, New Jersey, or, if Detroit is willing to deal with the West, maybe move him to San Jose for Murray? Possibly bundle Franzen up with a desirable prospect.

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01-24-2013, 01:42 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Detroit would take this and run.

***

I think Detroit is just going to have to choke on Franzen's contract. He's 33 and is signed for a good chunk of money until he's 40. His huge selling point, his playoff prowess, has been non-existent the last two seasons, and he is not looking good this year. Even assuming Detroit eats the most they can of his salary, the team who gets Franzen is going to get boned on the cap hit recapture rule.

Best case scenario, deal him to a playoff team who needs forward depth. Pittsburgh, New Jersey, or, if Detroit is willing to deal with the West, maybe move him to San Jose for Murray? Possibly bundle Franzen up with a desirable prospect.
Maybe I was to hasty. You think Ballard straight up? I'm not too concerned about the cap hit recapture because the variance remaining in his contract is only about 1million. If he retires 3 years early team trading for him is on the hook for only about a million per year.

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01-24-2013, 01:57 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Jimbo7200 View Post
I don't think this will happen, I'm just gauging the temperature on this guy.
Sold. Canucks will even do better than this. We will give a third OVERALL defense man.

To Canucks

Mule

To Wings

Cam Barker

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01-24-2013, 02:03 AM
  #6
rumrokh
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Maybe I was to hasty. You think Ballard straight up? I'm not too concerned about the cap hit recapture because the variance remaining in his contract is only about 1million. If he retires 3 years early team trading for him is on the hook for only about a million per year.
If he retired in 2016 or 2017, the hit would be more like two million. And that's getting into the danger zone during which he's getting paid less and will likely be a lot more ineffective and/or beaten up. That two million might not be a big deal to a lot of teams, but any team trading for him would definitely consider the implications, especially the Canucks, who are likely to spend to the cap.

I really can't say about Ballard straight up. A healthy Franzen clicking on all cylinders is worth more for any given season, but all told, it might be worth it to the Wings.

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01-24-2013, 03:19 AM
  #7
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Franzen is a 28 to 30 goal scorer and has the 'reputation' to be a beast in the playoffs, but the last few playoffs he scored some goals, but they come in waves. He's a big guy that likes to piss off other teams little guys who won't fight back... he's pretty much a coward trying to look tuff.

That said, his contract right now is a bargain, but will be pretty bad in the near future. Franzen did come into the league as a 4th line grinder who could play a 2-way game and kill penalties, that will likely be his role if he can't learn Holmstrom's 'style' of goal scoring. If he can be a bruiser in front of the net, then he will be useful on the PP when he gets older. He won't look as good as Jagr when he's 41, that's for sure.

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Old
01-24-2013, 04:39 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
If he retired in 2016 or 2017, the hit would be more like two million. And that's getting into the danger zone during which he's getting paid less and will likely be a lot more ineffective and/or beaten up. That two million might not be a big deal to a lot of teams, but any team trading for him would definitely consider the implications, especially the Canucks, who are likely to spend to the cap.
The team recieving Franzén won't be charged with a big hit according to the Luongo-rule, or am I interpreting this wrong?
Detroit are the one's saving capspace on him right now, a little more than 5 million ($5,181M) totally thus far IF we count this whole year to make it easier on us. That amount will be divided as a caphit per year for Detroit depending on how many years left on the contract he has when he retires.

Lets say Detroit trades him after the season and Franzén retires with 3 years remaing on his contract, that would give Detroit a cap penalty of $1,727M/yr for season 17-18,18-19 and 19-20. The team recieving him on the other hand would only recieve a cap penalty of $242k/yr for those seasons.
If he were to retire the season after that (18-19) DRW would have a cap penalty of $2,591M/yr and the recieving team would get a cap relief of $1,1M/yr from having a much higher caphit than salary paid out.
The recieving team would at most be charged with around $670k/yr and that is if he retires after the 16-17 season.

Correct me if wrong, but Red Wings should be the ones punished for making that cap circumventing contract.


With that said, I'd trade you Mike Green and Brooks Laich for Franzen, Helm and Kindl? (Yes, 3 of them are on IR, and yes, this is an old proposal that I proposed this summer)


Last edited by MW6: 01-24-2013 at 06:43 AM.
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Old
01-24-2013, 05:55 AM
  #9
rumrokh
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Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
The team recieving Franzén won't be charged with a big hit according to the Luongo-rule, or am I interpreting this wrong?
Detroit are the one's saving capspace on him right now, a little more than 5 million ($5,181M) totally thus far IF we count this whole year to make it easier on us. That amount will be divided as a caphit per year for Detroit depending on how many years left on the contract he has when he retires.

Lets say Detroit trades him after the season and Franzén retires with 3 years remaing on his contract, that would give Detroit a cap penalty of $1,727M/yr for season 17-18,18-19 and 19-20. The team recieving him on the other hand would only recieve a cap penalty of $242k/yr for those seasons.
If he were to retire the season after that (18-19) DRW would have a cap penalty of $2,591M/yr and the recieving team would get a cap relief of $1,1M/yr from having a much higher caphit than salary paid out.
The recieving thim would at most be charged with around $670k/yr if he retires after the 16-17 season.

Correct me if wrong, but Red Wings should be the ones punished for making that cap circumventing contract.


With that said, I'd trade you Mike Green and Brooks Laich for Franzen, Helm and Kindl? (Yes, 3 of them are on IR, and yes, this is an old proposal that I proposed this summer)
I didn't realize that penalty stuck around with Detroit instead of traveling with the player. Bummer for them, but it makes sense, since they're the ones saving in the meantime.

I really can't say about that trade. I think Redwings fans would say no. They have problems on defense, but they also lack depth at forward. They'd need another forward with skill coming back in that trade. Redwings fans also seem to love Helm more than he probably deserves, so you might be fighting an uphill battle.

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01-24-2013, 06:03 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I didn't realize that penalty stuck around with Detroit instead of traveling with the player. Bummer for them, but it makes sense, since they're the ones saving in the meantime.

I really can't say about that trade. I think Redwings fans would say no. They have problems on defense, but they also lack depth at forward. They'd need another forward with skill coming back in that trade. Redwings fans also seem to love Helm more than he probably deserves, so you might be fighting an uphill battle.
The penalty would potentially be on both Detroit and the team he was traded to.

If Franzen retires early Detroit would be on the hook for any cap savings they had during the time he was playing for them. The trading partner would be responsible for the cap savings that they had up until he retires.

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01-24-2013, 06:14 AM
  #11
rumrokh
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The penalty would potentially be on both Detroit and the team he was traded to.

If Franzen retires early Detroit would be on the hook for any cap savings they had during the time he was playing for them. The trading partner would be responsible for the cap savings that they had up until he retires.
Right.

Anyway, yea, I just don't see Franzen getting moved. Detroit has yet to commit to a youth movement and if he performs so poorly that they no longer consider him a core player, his contract will be hard to move. Even if his cap hit is fine, five million bucks is a lot to pay a guy if he's not performing. And if he does perform, I'm not sure you can convince me that Detroit needs him less than they need defense. They'd have to be happy with Nyqvist and Tatar in high responsibility roles.

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01-24-2013, 08:06 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post

With that said, I'd trade you Mike Green and Brooks Laich for Franzen, Helm and Kindl? (Yes, 3 of them are on IR, and yes, this is an old proposal that I proposed this summer)
The sticking point for a deal like that would be Helm. He's incredibly valuable to this team--noone we have can emulate the effect his speed has on a game. His absence is one of the reasons the Wings have looked so bad this season and in the playoffs last spring.

I like the idea of a Laich for Franzen and Kindl swap, but the odds and ends don't fit very well unfortunately.

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01-24-2013, 09:27 AM
  #13
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The Wings might be better served buying Franzen out if they're worried about possible contract ramifications...

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01-24-2013, 09:30 AM
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Franzen + for Green

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01-24-2013, 12:06 PM
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Im not sure of all these cap ramifications but if they're true for guys like Luongo and Franzen, The Flyers are going to be in cap hell if a group of guys (who no longer play for them) end up retiring early. Are we sure there isnt more to this?

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01-24-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Sold. Canucks will even do better than this. We will give a third OVERALL defense man.

To Canucks

Mule

To Wings

Cam Barker
Let me think about that for a minuteokI'mdone-no.

For the record I got the in the initial post.

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01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
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Franzen + for Green
What else are you looking for from Detroit

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01-24-2013, 01:02 PM
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I get a strong feeling that Keith Ballard will be a Red Wing within a couple of weeks.

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01-24-2013, 01:11 PM
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With that said, I'd trade you Mike Green and Brooks Laich for Franzen, Helm and Kindl? (Yes, 3 of them are on IR, and yes, this is an old proposal that I proposed this summer)
It'd be hard finding a fan of the Red Wings that would say yes to any deal concerning Helmer. He's our #3C and our only true #3C. The dimension he brings to the table is something the wings can't afford to give up. Speed, determination, penalty killing. The guy is a straight workhorse that won't give up. Unfortunately, we just can't afford to give him up, and i'd want to cry the day we even considered it Brendan Smith is our Mike Green, he just needs to get used to the big show. Unfortunately, we just have too many puck moving offensive defensemen. We need a more collective stay at home that's willing to staple gun to the boards and clear that crease.

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01-24-2013, 01:31 PM
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What else are you looking for from Detroit
Reading about potential cap penalty, a first and an NHL-ready prospect probably.
EDIT: Idea from my friend: what about Green + Johansson package?

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01-24-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Reading about potential cap penalty, a first and an NHL-ready prospect probably.
EDIT: Idea from my friend: what about Green + Johansson package?
Detroit can't really trade this years first, they could be on the way to start rebuilding soon.

Detroit already has similar players to Johansson; namely Nyquist and Tatar. It would be slap in to the face for them if Detroit trades and gives roster spot for MoJo above them as they have been patiently waiting for their chance. Even though MoJo is more proven.

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01-24-2013, 02:31 PM
  #22
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Ballard
Luongo


Franzen
Smith
Joey MacDonald

Two birds with one stone!

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01-24-2013, 02:39 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post

Ballard
Luongo


Franzen
Smith
Joey MacDonald

Two birds with one stone!
You forgot the . I know this is a troll offer but Franzen for Luongo imo is about even (though the wings wouldn't make the trade). That leaves us with Smith+MacDonald for Ballard which is a very easy no.

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01-24-2013, 02:42 PM
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I don't want to sound like a doomsday Wings fan (because I'm the complete opposite) but I can't even move Franzen in my Yahoo fantasy league.

That being said, if management could get a serviceable top 4 defender for him, I'd be all for it.

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Old
01-24-2013, 03:20 PM
  #25
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To Detroit:
Franson
Tim Connolly (Expriring Salary)

To Toronto:
Franzen
pick or prospect

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