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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Leafs - Armageddon at 2-1-0

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #401
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
They're moving Neal to LW in favor of TK. Putting an offensive black hole in Glass with Sutter. Dunno if Im a fan of this.
is that confirmed anywhere?

As for the third line, I wouldn't mind Glass there with Sutter and TK but Cooke and Glass really is a lack of offense for Sutter.

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01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #402
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Its a good time of year to try things. IMO the Pens have about 8 games before they have to get overly serious.

I would like to see...

Kunitz-Crosby-Sutter
Cooke-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Dupuis-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Sutter can still go out and take draws when needed but I would like to see him get some shifts with Sid. If it ends up working out I'm OK with a hole at third line center for now and that position is a lot easier to fill than a first line winger.
there is absolutely no reason to do this. If we thought wing was more important than 3rd line center, we would have moved Staal to wing.

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01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
They're moving Neal to LW in favor of TK. Putting an offensive black hole in Glass with Sutter. Dunno if Im a fan of this.
Neal played LW in Dallas, but with his shot he should be playing his off wing. I dunno...

No matter what, a coal miner will be playing with Malkin and Neal, barring a trade.

So basically, do whatever.

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01-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
is that confirmed anywhere?

As for the third line, I wouldn't mind Glass there with Sutter and TK but Cooke and Glass really is a lack of offense for Sutter.
Exhibit A of why we need to make a trade or two. We're breaking up our third line so we can put a shooter with Malkin+Neal and a 4th liner with Cooke/Sutter.

Meanwhile, Sid still has a glaring hole on his RW.

But hey, Sid and Geno are Demi-gods and will find a way to make it work.

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01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #405
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I do think Sutter can be good on the wing with his size, speed and shot but his defense is even better than Staal's from what I've seen so far and I didn't even want Staal's defense wasted on the wing, let alone someone that looks even better in that regard.

I think we're headed for more of what we saw last night. Not talking about results-wise but in terms of Sutter getting some shifts on the wing occasionally but not all the time and certainly not in any games that we're ahead in.

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01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Neal played LW in Dallas, but with his shot he should be playing his off wing. I dunno...

No matter what, a coal miner will be playing with Malkin and Neal, barring a trade.

So basically, do whatever.
We need to form some team chemistry. Set lines. I sure hope Shero will look to make moves sooner than later.

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01-24-2013, 11:11 AM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
is that confirmed anywhere?

As for the third line, I wouldn't mind Glass there with Sutter and TK but Cooke and Glass really is a lack of offense for Sutter.
It's not "confirmed" but the Pens site lists the line as: Neal-Malkin-Kennedy which to me implies Kennedy is on the right. Who knows though.

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01-24-2013, 11:13 AM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Exhibit A of why we need to make a trade or two. We're breaking up our third line so we can put a shooter with Malkin+Neal and a 4th liner with Cooke/Sutter.

Meanwhile, Sid still has a glaring hole on his RW.

But hey, Sid and Geno are Demi-gods and will find a way to make it work.
At this moment, one could argue the glaring hole is on the left.

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01-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #409
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I can't think of a worse winger to put with Malkin and Neal than Kennedy. I'll reserve my final judgement for a few games, but it is just maddeningly stupid IMO. All that we've done is make the 2nd line at best the same effectiveness and made the 3rd line less effective. I know we are a very good team but damn do we need more skill in the top 9.

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01-24-2013, 11:23 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by zhenyas most fly rep View Post
At this moment, one could argue the glaring hole is on the left.
Seriously.

Yes, I know it's early and I'm not making this an indictment of his entire season, but thus far Kunitz has been worse than Dupuis.

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01-24-2013, 11:23 AM
  #411
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At this moment, one could argue the glaring hole is on the left.
Absolutely. Kunitz has been really bad, other than his booming legal hits that were somehow called boarding. By the way, did they make any rule changes resulting in these penalties or are the refs just calling it really strictly? I can't for the life of me understand how that's a penalty. I mean basically you have to tell players not to be so good at hitting.

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01-24-2013, 11:24 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I can't think of a worse winger to put with Malkin and Neal than Kennedy. I'll reserve my final judgement for a few games, but it is just maddeningly stupid IMO. All that we've done is make the 2nd line at best the same effectiveness and made the 3rd line less effective. I know we are a very good team but damn do we need more skill in the top 9.
I agree with this. He just isn't a good fit for that 2nd wing spot. And I don't think either of us are hating on TK. A big part of why I don't like it is that it will hurt the third line.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I do think Sutter can be good on the wing with his size, speed and shot but his defense is even better than Staal's from what I've seen so far and I didn't even want Staal's defense wasted on the wing, let alone someone that looks even better in that regard.

I think we're headed for more of what we saw last night. Not talking about results-wise but in terms of Sutter getting some shifts on the wing occasionally but not all the time and certainly not in any games that we're ahead in.
So let Sutter be the one to get back deep into the defensive zone and free Sid up for offense a little bit more.

Teams are over targeting Sid now. At least let him ease up on how much ice he has to cover.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #414
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Malkin says he "lost control" last night. He spoke to the ref in English.


https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...95414625914880

LOL id love to know what he said. Tangradi is driving gino crazy

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01-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Its a good time of year to try things. IMO the Pens have about 8 games before they have to get overly serious.

I would like to see...

Kunitz-Crosby-Sutter
Cooke-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Dupuis-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Sutter can still go out and take draws when needed but I would like to see him get some shifts with Sid. If it ends up working out I'm OK with a hole at third line center for now and that position is a lot easier to fill than a first line winger.
There are a couple of levels to this.

One would be that all games are serious in a season this short. A five game losing streak could really put you behind the eight ball, at least as far as seeding goes.

On the other hand in a way none of the games are serious. If you do not care overly much about seeding, which I have often argued is the case. An extra home game? Whoopdie doo. A more 'favorable' matchup? We have all seen how those work out. The Pens are too talented to miss the playoffs even if they made all their forwards play defense, their defensemen play forward, and put Crosby in goal for a month. Just for the hell of it.

Much more important. Stay healthy. Work on a system that will work in the playoffs. And yeah give players like Tangradi long try outs to see if they can fit in.

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01-24-2013, 11:30 AM
  #416
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Think what you want, but Kennedy is actually the best winger option on this team for that line.

You heard me right.

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01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I agree with this. He just isn't a good fit for that 2nd wing spot. And I don't think either of us are hating on TK. A big part of why I don't like it is that it will hurt the third line.
Agreed. I love TK on the 3rd line. He brings a lot of energy and has some offensive skill. He is the puck carrier on that line, especially now that Staal is gone. He is also a shoot first guy which that line can use. None of those attributes are needed on the 2nd line. Geno is the puck carrier and Neal is the shooter. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #418
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honest question: what has Sutter ever done to make us believe he's a better top 6 wing than Dupuis? And not just better, but enough better to make up for how much worse the 3C position would be.

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Think what you want, but Kennedy is actually the best winger option on this team for that line.

You heard me right.
he will produce the most on the 2nd line out of the rest of our wings. I don't think that makes him the best option. For one thing, he is also the best wing option for the 3rd line. I think the 3rd line will lose more than the 2nd line gains by putting him there. As Shady just said, TK's best attributes are puck carrying and shooting. On the third line, he does both. On the 2nd line, he is worse than both of his linemates at both of them. I really just don't know what his role will be with them. I hope he can make it work. I just have visions of him taking bad angle shots while Geno and Neal are wide open.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 01-24-2013 at 11:39 AM.
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01-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #420
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Think what you want, but Kennedy is actually the best winger option on this team for that line.

You heard me right.
That may be true, but he is MORE effective on the 3rd line IMO. So overall, the net effectiveness of TK is lessened or equal at best by moving him. While the 2nd line might be better with TK on it, I doubt that to be the case but will concede it here, the 3rd line will certainly be less effective.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Tangradi cut his teeth on the third line in jrs and the A. He has always worked for a top six role and has come by those roles with hard work. So people who think he can't play a grinding role have no clue what they are talking about.

When he played with Vitale in the A, and even this year down there, he played a big man's game and protected the puck really well and was very good on the boards. He consistently rubbed his man out on the FC and knows how to play that game.

It's all about getting consistent minutes and getting in a grove. You can't give any player, yet alone a young one, a shift, then skip 4 or 5 of his shifts, then send him back out. It's idiotic.

If Malkin and Crosby had shifts like that, I have a feeling their games wouldn't be quite so dynamic.
You mean like Malkin last night after Bylsma iced him for 6 minutes of PK time and then put him out there with an implicit 'do something great' message?

EDIT: Or I could've just noticed that someone else said that earlier . . .

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exhibit A: Malkin's awful turnover after sitting for 6 straight minutes of penalty kill time.

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01-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #422
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You mean like Malkin last night after Bylsma iced him for 6 minutes of PK time and then put him out there with an implicit 'do something great' message?
that was a super clever comment. I wish I had made it like two hours ago

edit: nice quick edit

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01-24-2013, 11:45 AM
  #423
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Well, at least TK gets a shot I guess. Gonna be some frustrating moments.
Maybe THIS was Bylsma's plan. Put Tangradi out there with Geno so that when the inevitable switch to TK came, Geno would see it as a godsend from his brilliant coach.

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01-24-2013, 11:46 AM
  #424
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that was a super clever comment. I wish I had made it like two hours ago

edit: nice quick edit
Hey, I don't **** around with guys like you around here to drop the hammer.

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01-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #425
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And how do you learn to hit NHL players who are faster, stronger and craftier than guys in the A?

Oh... You play bottom six minutes where you crash and bang all game. Sort of like how he and Vitale wrecked havoc on teams in the A playing on the third line.

Those two know how to play together and cycle the puck and grind it out. Once again, put them together and let him develop properly.

Everyone thinks Glass can do a better job than Tangradi, so throw him up there.
I have to back up Jiggy with this one. Tangradi needs to get regular bottom 6 minutes to develop properly. That or stick him with the one guy he has shown some obvious chemistry with - and that would be Crosby.

Most of the peeps here complaining about Tangradi and wanting to get rid of him are the same ones who will be yelling and screaming if we let him go and he develops into a big physical 50 point top 6 winger....

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