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Zack Kassian Appreciation Thread: Cody Who?

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Old
01-27-2013, 03:27 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I'm not interesting in watching the twins get pummelled in the playoffs again.
Im less interested in Kassians slow and methodical puck possession game getting wasted on two yahoos who only know the the directions north ans south and only know the speeds stop and go.

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01-27-2013, 03:30 PM
  #427
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You think that's shocking? I can't understand how we've come to take Hansen for granted to the point where we completely leave him out of prospective line combos. Particularly in a post that mentions a shutdown line.

To me any shutdown line, or at least the best shutdown line, is going to have either Hansen or Burrows on the right side. Actually the best shutdown line we could put together would have Burrows and Hansen as both of the wingers. Kesler is our best defensive center, but what Lappy and Hansen did together in our cup run proved that they are tough to play against. 4 ES Goals Against for both of them (total for the entire playoffs), with a mediocre defender like Torres no less. If Kass can hang with the Sedins, I'd like to see a 3rd line of Burrows-Lappy-Hansen. That would leave a lot of options for the 2cnd and 4th lines depending on who's playing well at any given time.

Sedins- Kass
? - Kesler- ?
Burrows- Lappy- Hansen
? - Malhotra/Schroeder- ?

edit- I meant to post this after Scurr's first I'm shocked post, which came after Bleach's lines that didn't have Hansen at all. This thread is moving way too fast for a Sunday morning!


Last edited by Andy Dufresne: 01-27-2013 at 03:41 PM. Reason: I'm slow
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01-27-2013, 03:32 PM
  #428
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Keep in mind Kassian is young, and young power forwards often exhibit inconsistency. There are nights and periods of time where he is going to look more like Steve Bernier than Rick Nash. That's when its nice to know that you can reunite Burrows with the Sedins with no drop off in production.

Of course AV never mixes up his lines.

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01-27-2013, 03:35 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Keep in mind Kassian is young, and young power forwards often exhibit inconsistency. There are nights and periods of time where he is going to look more like Steve Bernier than Rick Nash. That's when its nice to know that you can reunite Burrows with the Sedins with no drop off in production.

Of course AV never mixes up his lines.
Pretty much what I'm thinking.

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01-27-2013, 03:54 PM
  #430
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You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to be shocked by how bad it is




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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Burrows and Kesler also have proven chemistry, and Kassian seems to be clicking with the Sedins on the cycle while preventing them from being pushed around. I think we need that intimidating deterrent paired with the Sedins when the playoffs roll around, but I'm not adverse to playing Burr with the Sedins for certain matchups.

You can still shift Kassian with the Sedins from time to time. I'm noticing more and more that the Sedins don't tend to attack off the rush with Kassian. This is something Burrows kind of instills in that line. He makes them play with more pace. I also like Burrows much better defensively than Kassian, and it's a weakness of the twins in the playoffs IMO.


You get a little more utility from Burrows IMO. While Kassian can provide a few shifts here and there to mix things up. Win-win.

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01-27-2013, 03:55 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Andy Dufresne View Post
You think that's shocking? I can't understand how we've come to take Hansen for granted to the point where we completely leave him out of prospective line combos. Particularly in a post that mentions a shutdown line.

To me any shutdown line, or at least the best shutdown line, is going to have either Hansen or Burrows on the right side. Actually the best shutdown line we could put together would have Burrows and Hansen as both of the wingers. Kesler is our best defensive center, but what Lappy and Hansen did together in our cup run proved that they are tough to play against. 4 ES Goals Against for both of them (total for the entire playoffs), with a mediocre defender like Torres no less. If Kass can hang with the Sedins, I'd like to see a 3rd line of Burrows-Lappy-Hansen. That would leave a lot of options for the 2cnd and 4th lines depending on who's playing well at any given time.

Sedins- Kass
? - Kesler- ?
Burrows- Lappy- Hansen
? - Malhotra/Schroeder- ?

edit- I meant to post this after Scurr's first I'm shocked post, which came after Bleach's lines that didn't have Hansen at all. This thread is moving way too fast for a Sunday morning!


Lol, that was a typo. Hansen was supposed to be on the 4th line there. Edit2: I don't view putting Hansen on the 4th line as a slight on him. The 4th line plays some heavy defensive minutes, more so than the 2nd line and the 1st line.


Edit: Here it is again:


D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Booth
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Malhotra-Lapierre-Hansen
Weise-Volpatti

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01-27-2013, 04:15 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by schism View Post
Cherry when it comes to hockey itself is still pretty good. I didn't see this clip or its context, but there's some truth in remembering your bread and butter.

For instance, I'd love it if Kesler would worry less about scoring goals and more about returning to 09/10 form. He fell in love with his wrist shot and it hasn't helped his game imo.
i didn't see what cherry actually said. but i agree with the above comment. '04 bertuzzi is a clear example of a guy with a similar (but superior) skill set to kassian who started acting like he was jagr instead of the punishing, physical, crash-the-net bull he rightly should have been. would hate to see kassian go in that direction.

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01-27-2013, 04:19 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Keep in mind Kassian is young, and young power forwards often exhibit inconsistency. There are nights and periods of time where he is going to look more like Steve Bernier than Rick Nash. That's when its nice to know that you can reunite Burrows with the Sedins with no drop off in production.

Of course AV never mixes up his lines.
This is true, there are going to be times when Kassian is going to need to be reminded why he was put there in the first place. Burrows is a great option for that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post






You can still shift Kassian with the Sedins from time to time. I'm noticing more and more that the Sedins don't tend to attack off the rush with Kassian. This is something Burrows kind of instills in that line. He makes them play with more pace. I also like Burrows much better defensively than Kassian, and it's a weakness of the twins in the playoffs IMO.


You get a little more utility from Burrows IMO. While Kassian can provide a few shifts here and there to mix things up. Win-win.
Lighten_up_Bleach

The twins leave too much of the defensive responsibility to Burrows imo, playing with Kassian will get them back to playing a 200ft game... I hope. The rush chances haven't been there much yet for that line but I really like the different look. I also really like that Kassian can offer a significant push back from our team when the twins start taking a beating. I think that's significant. The twins have not been good enough in the playoffs imo, maybe a different look is exactly what they need?

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01-27-2013, 04:55 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
This is true, there are going to be times when Kassian is going to need to be reminded why he was put there in the first place. Burrows is a great option for that time.



Lighten_up_Bleach

The twins leave too much of the defensive responsibility to Burrows imo, playing with Kassian will get them back to playing a 200ft game... I hope. The rush chances haven't been there much yet for that line but I really like the different look. I also really like that Kassian can offer a significant push back from our team when the twins start taking a beating. I think that's significant. The twins have not been good enough in the playoffs imo, maybe a different look is exactly what they need?



Possibly. I think you start with the more consistent threat in Burrows. The better two-way and tempo setter in Burrows, and then switch it up to Kassian if need be, or just to offer a different look. The mainstay should still be Burrows though.


It's all good with me that Kassian has some chemistry with the twins. It can't be looked as anything but good to have that new option. However, Kassian shouldn't unseat the mainstay just yet... but who knows? Maybe Kassian wrestles the spot away from Burrows as we move along here.

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01-27-2013, 04:55 PM
  #435
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Looks a lot better IMO. The 3rd line would be one of the fastest out there with a great distributor to center it.
I prefer that if Raymond and Schroeder are great enough defensively to cover for Booth, but I'm a little skeptical about that. How strong defensively will that line be against a strong, physical team?

God, I love the Burrows - Kesler - Hansen line. That line could win you a playoff series, IMO.

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01-27-2013, 05:43 PM
  #436
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I've sorta thought AV is looking to move away from the SSB line. Not sure why exactly but over tthe past couple of seasons we've seen Samuelson, Raymond, Booth and now Kassian line up with them. Some has been injury related, some an attempt to shake things up, but I think AV would like to be able to deploy Burrows in a different manner.

As far as I'm concerned, Kassian has the potential to take the Sedins to yet anther level, especially in the playoffs. I love Burrows, but Kassian is a physical speciman Burrows just can't match.

I also don't really feel the AMEX line was as good as some remember. It startted out good, but didn't really have the long-term impact to want to keep reuniting it. Burrows and Kesler were great for a while, much longer than RK and CH ever were. I also think Higgins offensive game is too hot/cold to play in our top6.

As long as Schroeder and Raymond are together, they'll need some size on tht line. Right now its Weise, but by playoffs Booth would be an upgrade. Kassian also fits that requirement but I'm loving having him be the twins' Semenko (with sick puck skills). We've needed that for at least half a decade now. The SCF vs BOS showed the limitations to the "get revenge by scoring on the PP" approach.

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01-27-2013, 06:02 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
I've sorta thought AV is looking to move away from the SSB line. Not sure why exactly but over tthe past couple of seasons we've seen Samuelson, Raymond, Booth and now Kassian line up with them. Some has been injury related, some an attempt to shake things up, but I think AV would like to be able to deploy Burrows in a different manner.

As far as I'm concerned, Kassian has the potential to take the Sedins to yet anther level, especially in the playoffs. I love Burrows, but Kassian is a physical speciman Burrows just can't match.

I also don't really feel the AMEX line was as good as some remember. It startted out good, but didn't really have the long-term impact to want to keep reuniting it. Burrows and Kesler were great for a while, much longer than RK and CH ever were. I also think Higgins offensive game is too hot/cold to play in our top6.

As long as Schroeder and Raymond are together, they'll need some size on tht line. Right now its Weise, but by playoffs Booth would be an upgrade. Kassian also fits that requirement but I'm loving having him be the twins' Semenko (with sick puck skills). We've needed that for at least half a decade now. The SCF vs BOS showed the limitations to the "get revenge by scoring on the PP" approach.
I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting the Amex line back together. They were only broken up because of injury and it is no surprise that both Booth and Kesler scored the most when playing with...guess who, Higgins.

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01-27-2013, 06:07 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
I've sorta thought AV is looking to move away from the SSB line. Not sure why exactly but over tthe past couple of seasons we've seen Samuelson, Raymond, Booth and now Kassian line up with them. Some has been injury related, some an attempt to shake things up, but I think AV would like to be able to deploy Burrows in a different manner.

As far as I'm concerned, Kassian has the potential to take the Sedins to yet anther level, especially in the playoffs. I love Burrows, but Kassian is a physical speciman Burrows just can't match.

I also don't really feel the AMEX line was as good as some remember. It startted out good, but didn't really have the long-term impact to want to keep reuniting it. Burrows and Kesler were great for a while, much longer than RK and CH ever were. I also think Higgins offensive game is too hot/cold to play in our top6.

As long as Schroeder and Raymond are together, they'll need some size on tht line. Right now its Weise, but by playoffs Booth would be an upgrade. Kassian also fits that requirement but I'm loving having him be the twins' Semenko (with sick puck skills). We've needed that for at least half a decade now. The SCF vs BOS showed the limitations to the "get revenge by scoring on the PP" approach.
Burrows is an interesting linemate with Raymond and Schroeder. Another fast guy who can dish it off or snipe as needed. Would actually be a pain to match up against behind a 1-2 punch of Sedin and Kes lines. That leaves the 4th with carrying ,more of a defensive load: Hansen Lapierre Higgins/Volpatti/Weise

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01-27-2013, 06:13 PM
  #439
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Possibly. I think you start with the more consistent threat in Burrows.
It hasn't been a consistent threat in the playoffs. That's why I was shocked at people being so quick to go back to it. So many things that have happened over the last couple years point clearly to Kassian being the right fix.

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01-27-2013, 06:21 PM
  #440
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I find that with Kassian, the twins hold on to the puck more when trying to gain the zone...which is a good thing. With Burrows, they used to dump it in his corner and rely on him to get the puck to set it up. With Kassian, it is a more efficient game.

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01-27-2013, 06:30 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
I've sorta thought AV is looking to move away from the SSB line. Not sure why exactly but over tthe past couple of seasons we've seen Samuelson, Raymond, Booth and now Kassian line up with them. Some has been injury related, some an attempt to shake things up, but I think AV would like to be able to deploy Burrows in a different manner.

As far as I'm concerned, Kassian has the potential to take the Sedins to yet anther level, especially in the playoffs. I love Burrows, but Kassian is a physical speciman Burrows just can't match.

I also don't really feel the AMEX line was as good as some remember. It startted out good, but didn't really have the long-term impact to want to keep reuniting it. Burrows and Kesler were great for a while, much longer than RK and CH ever were. I also think Higgins offensive game is too hot/cold to play in our top6.

As long as Schroeder and Raymond are together, they'll need some size on tht line. Right now its Weise, but by playoffs Booth would be an upgrade. Kassian also fits that requirement but I'm loving having him be the twins' Semenko (with sick puck skills). We've needed that for at least half a decade now. The SCF vs BOS showed the limitations to the "get revenge by scoring on the PP" approach.
wrt the SSB line, while the sedins are extraordinarily creative players, they also have the tendency to get stuck in their ways and get predictable. whether this is due to coaching is debatable. but the point is, it makes sense to switch up their RW from time to time to force them out of their comfort zones.

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01-27-2013, 06:39 PM
  #442
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wrt the SSB line, while the sedins are extraordinarily creative players, they also have the tendency to get stuck in their ways and get predictable. whether this is due to coaching is debatable. but the point is, it makes sense to switch up their RW from time to time to force them out of their comfort zones.
hmm, see with the Sedin's I see them exploit players (particularly the Phaneufs of the world ) because they fake the play you'd expect them to make and then capitalize on the overcommitment.

Predictable is the wrong word. But certainly playing with Kassian changes their style. Burrows can participate in the cycle but can't protect the puck that well so he usually heads to the net. Kassian on the other hand is able to hold the puck as well as they do. I'd expect a couple more Daniel goals this year.

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01-27-2013, 07:44 PM
  #443
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I disagree. The Sabres have been known to produce NHL talent at a great clip themselves, regardless of how their farm team plays. I'd rank them in the top 6 teams at drafting prowess. This has little to do with AHL team playstyle and more to do with picking the right players, and those players themselves being able to adapt.



You brought up CoHo and Schroeder. Both played for the Moose/Wolves, as in the same defensive system. One decided to make it a focus, the other didn't, but both are still NHLers. They are both so young so it isn't known where they end up defensively in the pros. What we do know is that AV himself is a defense-minded coach. He favours two-way play. He has set that tone here. It's a lot easier for him to send down/not play non-compliant prospects than it is for Arniel to stop playing them in the AHL. AV can be more ruthless/exacting. He is afforded that ability. As a result, _here_ it is a lot harder to make the team as a prospect with a suspect defensive game. This doesn't apply league-wide. Other coaches give their prospects that leeway, but not here. That being right or wrong depends on how you think prospects should be developed.



I follow a DET a lot due to my friends being big fans. I can't tell you how many times they have called out Hudler/Franzen/Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson/Quincy/Ericsson and more for being suspect defensively. Four of those players being DET drafts. Samuelsson being raised by DET essentially. The point being, they see DET as being far more forgiving defensively to their players than they do VAN with theirs. In fact, their gripe is why AV plays the twins at all (especially against CHI) for being "weak" defensively themselves. Very non-AV to them.



My point is, for Kassian, it comes down to the player's adaptation to the system, not the system itself. Can the player adapt? Kassian has. As has Schroeder. Hodgson really didn't and we all know how that turned out...
My point was more that it's better to let your young offensively-skilled talent to mature in the minors and learn how to play in their own end, rather than anything to do with Kassian.

Babcock himself is known as a defense-first coach too, no? I think we're all familiar with the Red Wings' tradition of focusing on defense. Also why Holland says they let their prospects 'overcook' in the minors, as he likes to put it.

As a sidenote though, BUF just seems to produce talent because they're superior at drafting. But I would also like us to look at the Wings' and Devils' system of development - and both teams can also draft well. The reason why I think they do it the right way is right there if you look at their record of successes over the past 20 years or so.

If the plan was merely to produce lots of NHL'ers quickly for the big club, then I would say the Sabres do a good job. But for a team looking to contend, however, the standard should always be higher, IMO. Thus VAN should be focusing on producing NHL players that can also play a two-way game. It may take longer for them to get called up but I feel the payoff and benefit is greater than just letting them run-n'-gun, as you've observed for yourself before about the way they play.

Especially when you look at how tough a conference the Canucks play in - defense is virtually an entry-level requirement. In the East you may be able to get away with it... but even Buffalo struggles to make the playoffs with their formula.

Of course, if Buffalo can draft skill and talent that doesn't need much time to adapt to the pro game and learn how to play without the puck, then good for them. Unfortunately we're not quite there yet, so I feel it's the bext option we have.

My apologies for letting this stray off topic.

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01-27-2013, 08:17 PM
  #444
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Bieksa injured?

what is going on with this team?

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01-27-2013, 08:41 PM
  #445
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01-27-2013, 08:52 PM
  #446
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Took a lot of guts for Kassian to fight Clowe and he stuck in there. Props.

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01-27-2013, 08:53 PM
  #447
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Took a lot of guts for Kassian to fight Clowe and he stuck in there. Props.
Clowe is a big man, 6'2 230lbs. Wait till Kassian is 25 and a more seasoned fighter, no one will drop the gloves with him.

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01-28-2013, 05:34 PM
  #448
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Does anyone have any HD footage of any of Kassian's hits last season for us?

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01-28-2013, 05:37 PM
  #449
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Does anyone have any HD footage of any of Kassian's hits last season for us?

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01-28-2013, 05:38 PM
  #450
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