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*ALL* PK Subban talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) II

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01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #76
Giggli G
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I think there will be a high end defense prospect going back, assuming other teams aren't willing to give up their good young defensemen (which I don't think they will if it becomes clear to everyone that Subban is on the market). Someone like Klefbom, Brodin, etc. will be included, and then probably a first round pick and a roster forward.

Montreal fans hate the Paajarvi+Klefbom+1st type offer but I can see that being the kind of return they get. We've seen these kinds of trades before and the team selling the good player almost never gets back another player that is as good. They get a good roster player, a high pick and a high potential prospect. There is a chance Philly might offer Couturier, but other than that I don't really see teams that will give up their own young stars. Certainly don't expect a Yakupov+Petry type deal, that's ridiculous and would never happen.

Teams aren't going to give up players like Gardiner, Petry, etc. if it is clear that Subban is on the market. Montreal lacks leverage in this scenario, so why would teams trade their low cap hit good young D for an upgrade with a much higher cap hit and historical attitude issues?

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01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #77
JackBauer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
7 x 6.5M = 45.5M

45.5M / 5 = 9.1M

9.1M > 8M , therefore the compensation is 4 1st round picks.
fair enough. whatever the max is for the next tier down then

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01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Edmonton can't to it, you just traded your 3rd round pick to Dallas.
Well, assuming we had the pick then.

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01-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #79
FrankMTL
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If I'm Montreal, I'm not looking for quantity for quality trades (like what some fans are proposing). Subban is a 23 year old, top pairing defenceman (arguably a #1). You don't trade talent like that for an average NHLer, a good prospect, and a couple of picks. You do trades like Subban + for Benn, or Subban for Yakupov, or Subban for a high end prospect +. Trades that get high end talent back in exchange for high end talent.
This is the exact thinking Montreal management should have. Trade young talent for young talent and not unproven prospects and medicore players or draft picks. Montreal is not winning anything in the next couple of years, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't add a young talented every day player to our core that should hopefully be competing in a few years.

For those who say Subban is a mess in his zone have not seen his improvement over the last 2 years. he went from a -8 in 2010-2011 to a +9 in 2011-2012 while being one one of the worst teams in the league and getting close if not the most ice time on the Canadiens. He plays in all situations and is one of those rare players that can do something that'll get the fans out of their seats whether its a big hit, a fantastic rush up the ice, or big goal when they need it. He had 14 goals his rookie year and in his prime should be able to score 20 goals a year on a couple of occasions. He'll be a big time player in this league and its not easy to step into the top role he has in Montreal at such a young age. This kid thrives on pressure.


Last edited by FrankMTL: 01-24-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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01-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Again, I have no idea what Subban or the Habs are offering, but if the Habs would easily match a $6.5M/yr deal, why isn't he signed yet?
Because (supposedly, apparently, maybe, according to untraceable "word on the street") Bergevin is sticking to his guns on only offering bridge deals, as a purely philosophical principle. Maybe it's just that our whole front office is like recently-retired players, and they're all used to being told they don't get paid fair market value until UFA years, I don't know. But I'd think losing the asset for "nothing" (well, a grab bag of lesser draft picks) and making it a situation where it wasn't their own choice would change the dynamic. But hey, maybe not.

Let's put it this way. I'd match. But then, I'm already offering Subban a $50M/8yr deal, which is a $6.25M cap hit, basically no difference there to your offer sheet.

Anyway, I also doubt owners suddenly start attacking eachother with big crazy offer sheets so soon after the lockout? Well, you'd like to think that wouldn't be likely to happen anyway. But history is probably not kind to GMs (as a whole) being able to restrain themselves. So who knows.

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01-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #81
Pierre Dagenais
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you have no clue what you're talking about. MDZ played in the top 4 last season. Staal didn't play until January. And the only reason MDZ sometimes play on the 3rd pairing is that we got McD and Staal on the LD. MDZ cannot play RD...


Montreal would love MDZ stop trolling.
Top 4 doesn't mean top minutes. Take a look at the website I linked.

Del Zotto is 5th amongst defensemen in Quality of Competition, behind Girardi, Mcdonagh, Staal and even Sauer.

You admitted it yourself, he plays the 3rd pairing. Does he not get sheltered minutes?

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01-24-2013, 10:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
An signed Subban wouldn't get you one of our top 5. An unsigned subban is worse.
A D like Subban is indeed worthing a guy like Hall or Yakupov.

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01-24-2013, 10:57 AM
  #83
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If I am running the Flyers(which pretty clearly I am not) I woud center my offer around Voracek. He is a fine young player who has potential to be a 1st line winger. Right now he is more of a second line play making winger though. We could add, but you are not going to get a boatload on top of it.
But you know that if the Flyers come calling about PK Montreal is going to insist on Couturier.

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01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
A D like Subban is indeed worthing a guy like Hall or Yakupov.
Not in my opinion, but to each their own.

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01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #85
Erik Estrada
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This PK story is starting to compete with the Luongo situation as the biggest gong show in hockey...

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01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #86
Giggli G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That View Post
If I'm Montreal, I'm not looking for quantity for quality trades (like what some fans are proposing). Subban is a 23 year old, top pairing defenceman (arguably a #1). You don't trade talent like that for an average NHLer, a good prospect, and a couple of picks. You do trades like Subban + for Benn, or Subban for Yakupov, or Subban for a high end prospect +. Trades that get high end talent back in exchange for high end talent.
Of course you look for that. Historically though, most times you don't find it. See my post above.

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01-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
A D like Subban is indeed worthing a guy like Hall or Yakupov.
No he is not.

When will you guys get it through your heads. Even if Subban is near the worth of one of the big 5, Edmonton is not gonna part with them. Edmonton could get a far better return than subban, for one of our top guys.

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01-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Top 4 doesn't mean top minutes. Take a look at the website I linked.

Del Zotto is 5th amongst defensemen in Quality of Competition, behind Girardi, Mcdonagh, Staal and even Sauer.

You admitted it yourself, he plays the 3rd pairing. Does he not get sheltered minutes?
Top 4 also means bottom 4

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01-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #89
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=991

Except when he can't clear the zone worth a damn unless it's over the glass and gets coned on a regular basis because he's skating the wrong way.

Devils scored so many goals against his pairing. Lost the series.
The Devils scored a total of 15 goals in that series. Del Zotto was on the ice for 7 of them. But what's interesting is that in the first 3 games, Del Zotto was on the ice for 1 of NJ's 3 goals in game 2 (Games 1 and 3 were Shutouts for the Rangers). The other 12 goals the Devils scored were from Games 4 onwards, with Del Zotto on the ice for 6 of them.

Incidentally, Game 3 was played on May 19 and after the game, DZ was told that his grandmother had died.

Hardly a coincidence and an apt explanation for DZ's poor play in the second half of that series. But it's hardly an indictment on his capacity to play D. If you had a family member die, I suspect you wouldn't be thinking too much about hockey.

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01-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #90
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After all the crap that happened with the team last year (management, coaching) I'm glad PK could keep the tradition going.

What's next year I wonder, maybe Molson sells the team to a hedge fund.

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01-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #91
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Well, assuming we had the pick then.
Honestly, Habs would take the pics IMO. Would be hard to swallow, but he isn't worth that much money.

In all honesty, for all the flash Subban brings, he has negative features too:

- He's not a big body and can't match up againts all forwards in the league.
- He's not a PP QB, Habs PP was one of the worst in the league with him as the anchor.
- Is not unanimous in the locker room. Got into numerous fights with teammates and appears to rub a lot of teammates the wrong way.

IMO, he dosen't have the measurables to be a number 1 D-man, even in his prime, and he's a little bit of a me myself and I type.

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01-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #92
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But you know that if the Flyers come calling about PK Montreal is going to insist on Couturier.
I know but a deal around Voracek+Gostisbhere isn't that bad of value either. Ghost has the potential to be a top 4 defender. WJC gold with USA and has played well in Union College. Still developing though, and most likely will need two more years at Union.

I just don't think we send either of our two young kids over for him. I know every Canadian fan would want one, but I just don't think Homer does it.

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01-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Top 4 doesn't mean top minutes. Take a look at the website I linked.

Del Zotto is 5th amongst defensemen in Quality of Competition, behind Girardi, Mcdonagh, Staal and even Sauer.

You admitted it yourself, he plays the 3rd pairing. Does he not get sheltered minutes?
Sauer played 19 games, so out of our big 4 D's, the 1 of them who is worst at D played against the weakest competition.

Who would'a thunk it?

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01-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #94
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This PK story is starting to compete with the Luongo situation as the biggest gong show in hockey...
Only solution: PK for Luongo

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01-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #95
FrankMTL
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I know but a deal around Voracek+Gostisbhere isn't that bad of value either. Ghost has the potential to be a top 4 defender. WJC gold with USA and has played well in Union College. Still developing though, and most likely will need two more years at Union.

I just don't think we send either of our two young kids over for him. I know every Canadian fan would want one, but I just don't think Homer does it.
I don't see the habs trading Subban to a team in the same conference..I also don't think Montreal will trade for potential unless its high end and somewhat proven. I'm not saying he a bad prospect, because he's actually a pretty decent prospect, but he's one of those players who could be a top 4 defender, or a career AHLer. You don't trade a player of PK Subbans value for that. Voracek is a nice piece, but not an impact player.

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01-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #96
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red wings offer franzen, nyquist, tatar and 1st for PK Subban

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01-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #97
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PK's worth more to a small-medium franchise that's struggling financially because of his national visibility, Gatorade commercials, magazine covers, etc... New York Islanders, Florida, Anaheim, etc...

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01-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I know but a deal around Voracek+Gostisbhere isn't that bad of value either. Ghost has the potential to be a top 4 defender. WJC gold with USA and has played well in Union College. Still developing though, and most likely will need two more years at Union.

I just don't think we send either of our two young kids over for him. I know every Canadian fan would want one, but I just don't think Homer does it.
Do not want Voracek.

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01-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #99
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Send P.K to Clumbus for Ryan Johansen, Ryan Murray, 25 first round picks and Tim Erixon. That'll do it.

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01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #100
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Send P.K to Clumbus for Ryan Johansen, Ryan Murray, 25 first round picks and Tim Erixon. That'll do it.
That will get Howson fired.

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