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Old
02-23-2013, 12:49 AM
  #1
hobarth
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Addition by Subtraction

RC is looking like a genius, TO is presently the 7th best defensive team in hockey, the same goalies that didn't/couldn't stop a beach ball last year are looking like all-stars this year.

Maybe removing or giving some players extended bench rest helped accomplished a lot. This is how they did last year and where are they now, who cares.

Games Played +/- stat

Connolly 70 -14
Liles 66 -14
Schenn 79 -6
Lombardi 62 -19
Steckel 76 -14
Komo 45 -13
Armstrong 29 -8
Ashton 15 -10

This sort of reminds me of the movie "Money Ball", I wonder how good a team could be built on +/- stats alone. Scratches Head

I think it looks like TO will buy out Komo so why not now, it would really suck if he got himself injured during practice and couldn't be bought out next year because of the injury, the Gomez/Redden scenarios. I believe teams only have to pay 2/3rds of the salary that's left, so why pay him full salary to sit.

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02-23-2013, 12:56 AM
  #2
4evaBlue
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You missed the most defining addition/subtraction.

- Wilson
+ Carlyle

It doesn't matter what personnel you remove from the lineup, this team would still be an awful defensively with Wilson at the helm.

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02-23-2013, 01:12 AM
  #3
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Few things I have noticed under Carlyle:

- Players are much better at boxing out the oppositon from the net
- All fowards are committed to helping the blueliners out on the backcheck
- Players are making a much better effort at getting in both the shooting and passing lanes

We're still a bit dimwitted when it comes to properly clearing the zone, still an issue but as a whole this entire team is miles better defensively then they were last year.

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02-23-2013, 10:28 AM
  #4
hobarth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Few things I have noticed under Carlyle:

- Players are much better at boxing out the oppositon from the net
- All fowards are committed to helping the blueliners out on the backcheck
- Players are making a much better effort at getting in both the shooting and passing lanes

We're still a bit dimwitted when it comes to properly clearing the zone, still an issue but as a whole this entire team is miles better defensively then they were last year.
The boxing out is something different for TO because Wilson wanted everyone to play man on man.
Forwards are back checking and staying in their zone supporting the d-men which is a departure from the run and gun which was based on fast break.
Basically d-men and utility forwards are blocking shots, TO is 8th in this stat., and the same players are clogging the shooting lanes. I would think that's their job and it probably was with Wilson.

Everyone is thinking that RC has made such huge changes in TO's approach to the game and he has but I think goaltending can make a coach look like a genius. Good coaching can make goaltenders look better but all systems are dependent on the competency of the tenders.

I've been noticing that TO is still enduring far too many shots against, I know people will say yah but the quality of shots are not high so shots against is a misleading stat. Puckee I say shots against are an indication of puck possession and it's much harder to win a game if the opposition owns the puck. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and since TO is still being out shot, often by a wide margin, TO's success could still be a house of cards. TO won against Ottawa last week and that was an Ottawa without Spezza and Karlsson but TO was out shot almost by 2 to 1 so RC has a lot of work to do and so does Nonis. I can't imagine TO without Kessel and Phanny.

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02-23-2013, 10:37 AM
  #5
Parkdale
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Originally Posted by hobarth View Post

I think it looks like TO will buy out Komo so why not now, it would really suck if he got himself injured during practice and couldn't be bought out next year because of the injury, the Gomez/Redden scenarios. I believe teams only have to pay 2/3rds of the salary that's left, so why pay him full salary to sit.
Buyout rules are that a player can only be bought out during the off-season. So the Leafs will have to decide after June 15th this year whether to buyout the last year of Komi's contract if he is still on the roster. It will cost them about $2.3Mil cash to wipe out $4.5Mil in cap space for 13/14. Trading him and taking back half his salary will cost them $1.75Mil and they would be on the hook for $2.25Mil cap space. So trading him and taking back half salary will save them only $0.57Mil in cash and cost them $2.25Mil in cap space. That is why the likely scenerio is a complete compliance buyout on June 15th of 2013.

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:39 AM
  #6
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The very thought of Lombardi / Armstrong makes me puke. Army was such a waste of space.

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:41 AM
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bobbyflex
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$14M in American Slop (komi, liles, connolly, steckel) replaced by Ontario Pride (kadri, fraser, kostka, mcclement)

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Old
02-23-2013, 10:44 AM
  #8
Kessely Snipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
You missed the most defining addition/subtraction.

- Wilson
+ Carlyle

It doesn't matter what personnel you remove from the lineup, this team would still be an awful defensively with Wilson at the helm.
This, player personnel aside, you need to play defense.

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02-23-2013, 10:54 AM
  #9
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Randy Carlyle is bringing back Patty Burns hockey to TO.

If you can't play defense you can't win in today's NHL, and "Defense wins Championships".

Removing Leafs weakest +/- defensive players and replacing them can only make a team better defensively in the process and more successful.

Much like a chain, "you're only as strong as your weakest link".

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02-23-2013, 11:17 AM
  #10
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Randy Carlyle is bringing back Patty Burns hockey to TO.

If you can't play defense you can't win in today's NHL, and "Defense wins Championships".

Removing Leafs weakest +/- defensive players and replacing them can only make a team better defensively in the process and more successful.

Much like a chain, "you're only as strong as your weakest link".
Carlyle is my MVP for this team so far.

A lot of people are raving about how well our D group/goaltending have played but I actually think the biggest thing is the forwards have been the biggest improvement.

Our wingers aren't getting bumped off the puck just inside our zone anymore, all of the forwards have better gap control and we actually have a cycle game instead of having to rely on run and gun transition trading chances hockey all the time.

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02-23-2013, 11:24 AM
  #11
Doug Gilmour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Few things I have noticed under Carlyle:

- Players are much better at boxing out the oppositon from the net
- All fowards are committed to helping the blueliners out on the backcheck
- Players are making a much better effort at getting in both the shooting and passing lanes

We're still a bit dimwitted when it comes to properly clearing the zone, still an issue but as a whole this entire team is miles better defensively then they were last year.
Clearing the zone is our biggest downfall right now. We ice the puck why too frequently to be a consistently the best team night in and night out, but this is miles better than allowing the opposition to score every time they are in the zone. I agree with all the other points you mentioned especially the bolded. I can't remember a time when we were actually clearing the front of the net as effectively as we are right now.

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:25 AM
  #12
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goes to show ya
a good coach can do wonders

i wonder how many of these 'great goalies' around the league would have looked more like last yrs gustavsson, if they were to play for ron wilson ?

and we dont need every defenseman on the team to skate or handle the puck like kaberle in his prime to get the puck out of our end

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Old
02-23-2013, 11:29 AM
  #13
Hawaiinleaf
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Battles for the puck has been a HUGE HUGE reversal from last year, we win most of them now and lost most last year

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02-23-2013, 11:47 AM
  #14
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Carlyle is my MVP for this team so far.

A lot of people are raving about how well our D group/goaltending have played but I actually think the biggest thing is the forwards have been the biggest improvement.

Our wingers aren't getting bumped off the puck just inside our zone anymore, all of the forwards have better gap control and we actually have a cycle game instead of having to rely on run and gun transition trading chances hockey all the time.
I think Carlyle is deserving of Jack Adams "coach of the year" recognition at this point because of his impact on this team, and the results being delivered. He doesn't have the talent other teams do, but is getting similar results however through out-coaching opponents.

He is playing the players that deserve to play regardless of age, contract, experience and is being rewarded in turn via self motivation from those players attempting to make the best of their opportunities being given.

He is also doing more with less proving you don't need to foolishly spend large cap/money on UFA/trades for players to fill bottom/depth positions, and internal promotion will gain you far more traction as a team via blue collar effort and not self entitlement.

Blue and White disease has turned into Blue Collar effort and the results are obvious by this new philosophical organizational change in direction. Moving from pond hockey to sound defense first structure and making all players accountable for all zones of the game it doing wonders.

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02-23-2013, 12:03 PM
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Al14
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I think Carlyle is deserving of Jack Adams "coach of the year" recognition at this point because of his impact on this team, and the results being delivered. He doesn't have the talent other teams do, but is getting similar results however through out-coaching opponents.

He is playing the players that deserve to play regardless of age, contract, experience and is being rewarded in turn via self motivation from those players attempting to make the best of their opportunities being given.

He is also doing more with less proving you don't need to foolishly spend large cap/money on UFA/trades for players to fill bottom/depth positions, and internal promotion will gain you far more traction as a team via blue collar effort and not self entitlement.

Blue and White disease has turned into Blue Collar effort and the results are obvious by this new philosophical organizational change in direction. Moving from pond hockey to sound defense first structure and making all players accountable for all zones of the game it doing wonders.
About time too. I wonder if Burke was still at the helm if any of this would have happened. I think Burke would have insisted on LACK being played regularly. Nonis actually listened to his coach and allowed Carlyle to pick his roster! Not sure if Burke would have allowed it.

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02-23-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
About time too. I wonder if Burke was still at the helm if any of this would have happened. I think Burke would have insisted on LACK being played regularly. Nonis actually listened to his coach and allowed Carlyle to pick his roster! Not sure if Burke would have allowed it.
Burke lets his coach pick who plays, this is most likely the exact line up that would have been playing if Burke was still in charge.

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02-23-2013, 12:42 PM
  #17
Parkdale
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Burke lets his coach pick who plays, this is most likely the exact line up that would have been playing if Burke was still in charge.
That is true, but if Burkie were still around there would be so much increased pressure given all the mistakes being showcased by those waived, traded and sitting in the press box. The atmosphere would be totally different if Burke was still in charge....likely influencing in some way the line ups.

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02-23-2013, 01:43 PM
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Mess
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
About time too. I wonder if Burke was still at the helm if any of this would have happened. I think Burke would have insisted on LACK being played regularly. Nonis actually listened to his coach and allowed Carlyle to pick his roster! Not sure if Burke would have allowed it.
Burke numerous times stated he has "no interest in playing defense first hockey", that is why he so strongly promoted Wilson's pond hockey offensive attack system, witnessed by giving his coach a contract extension in support. We saw this in many aspects including demoting Orr and bringing in soft/small and weak defensive players like Connolly, Liles and Lombardi etc to spur on his coaches desire to play that style of game.

He claimed fans wanted to see "offense for their entertainment $" and that preceded a desire to win first and foremost as it took precedence. That "entertainment first" mentality may have worked and been required for small market or non traditional hockey markets in the USA where the goal is to fill 1/2 empty buildings and bring new fans to the game. However in Canada where Hockey is in the blood and buildings are filled to the rafters then winning should always be the first priority and we don't need to be told how Canada's #1 sport needs to be played in order for fans to get on board.. Everyone loves a winner !!.

The fact that Armstrong, Connolly, Komisarek, Lombardi, Liles, (ie LACK etc) have been banished and replaced mostly internally through hard work and effort, which exposes previous GM mistakes as glaringly obvious ones.. However Nonis/Carlyle to their credit feel no obligation to defend them, by being forced into playing them either. Leafs have more Cap $$ tied up in dead weight contracts/players (minors/buyouts/pressbox) than any/most other teams, which have little to no effect on the current team while they're paid to not play.

The greatest addition by subtraction of all was the the one MLSE orchestrated in upper management and and that instantly caused a 180 degree in system and direction change. Leaf Nation is being rewarded from the top (MLSE) to the bottom (Fans) in the organization through a new approach.


Last edited by Mess: 02-23-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
02-23-2013, 01:53 PM
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Kyle Doobas
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
$14M in American Slop (komi, liles, connolly, steckel) replaced by Ontario Pride (kadri, fraser, kostka, mcclement)
Now if we could only demote Kessel and Van Riemsdyk and call up Mike Zigomanis

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02-23-2013, 02:11 PM
  #20
Egoclapper
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I think Carlyle is deserving of Jack Adams "coach of the year" recognition at this point because of his impact on this team, and the results being delivered. He doesn't have the talent other teams do, but is getting similar results however through out-coaching opponents.

He is playing the players that deserve to play regardless of age, contract, experience and is being rewarded in turn via self motivation from those players attempting to make the best of their opportunities being given.

He is also doing more with less proving you don't need to foolishly spend large cap/money on UFA/trades for players to fill bottom/depth positions, and internal promotion will gain you far more traction as a team via blue collar effort and not self entitlement.


Blue and White disease has turned into Blue Collar effort and the results are obvious by this new philosophical organizational change in direction. Moving from pond hockey to sound defense first structure and making all players accountable for all zones of the game it doing wonders.
Burke was a player's GM. But that didn't help him in signing Brad Richards, because it isn't as important to players as a winning atmosphere and a coach that you can trust, respect and know where you stand. Wilson didn't provide that. Carlyle does.

I've been on that theory in your middle paragraphs for a while now. When those bottom six guys get the big long term contracts their bodies start to wear down or they get comfortable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobarth View Post
RC is looking like a genius, TO is presently the 7th best defensive team in hockey, the same goalies that didn't/couldn't stop a beach ball last year are looking like all-stars this year.

Maybe removing or giving some players extended bench rest helped accomplished a lot. This is how they did last year and where are they now, who cares.

Games Played +/- stat

Connolly 70 -14
Liles 66 -14
Schenn 79 -6
Lombardi 62 -19
Steckel 76 -14
Komo 45 -13
Armstrong 29 -8
Ashton 15 -10

This sort of reminds me of the movie "Money Ball", I wonder how good a team could be built on +/- stats alone. Scratches Head

I think it looks like TO will buy out Komo so why not now, it would really suck if he got himself injured during practice and couldn't be bought out next year because of the injury, the Gomez/Redden scenarios. I believe teams only have to pay 2/3rds of the salary that's left, so why pay him full salary to sit.
Schenn wasn't really that bad only a single digit minus, about 8 years younger than the rest and his point production was decent for the type of game he played.

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