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Off-Season Madness the 17th: A game on TV! Saturday vs Detroit 10am PT/1pm ET

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Old
01-29-2013, 06:16 AM
  #126
ForzaZuffa
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Yunel and Johnson will probably have career years now.
This, for sure. Jays players are almost like Leaf players thriving once they leave Toronto

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01-29-2013, 08:44 AM
  #127
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Was Johnson considered a perennial Cy Young candidate before he got hurt? Also, what was his injury? Have any other pitchers come back strong from it?
When healthy, Josh Johnson has long been considered a top 10 pitcher in baseball.

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Old
01-29-2013, 09:38 AM
  #128
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This, for sure. Jays players are almost like Leaf players thriving once they leave Toronto
Really? Let me prove you wrong by saying the name of Vernon Wells. Which players thrived after leaving Toronto? Halladay? He was thriving here too. Hill? Yea, but that happens but his best season was still probably in Toronto. Come on, give me example of ex-Jays who were actually mediocre here and became above average as soon as they left.

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01-29-2013, 09:59 AM
  #129
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Really? Let me prove you wrong by saying the name of Vernon Wells. Which players thrived after leaving Toronto? Halladay? He was thriving here too. Hill? Yea, but that happens but his best season was still probably in Toronto. Come on, give me example of ex-Jays who were actually mediocre here and became above average as soon as they left.
To be fair, last year was Hill's best, by quite a bit I might add.

And a few names that come to mind; Carpenter, Kelvim Escobar, Scott Eyre, Jeff Kent, Michael Young, Felipe Lopez, Al Leiter, Alex Rios, Ryan Roberts, David Weathers, Mike Timlin, Jayson Werth. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that jump to mind. None were "mediocre" as Jays, but were more successful when they moved on to other organizations.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:06 AM
  #130
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Esteban Loaiza.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:11 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Really? Let me prove you wrong by saying the name of Vernon Wells. Which players thrived after leaving Toronto? Halladay? He was thriving here too. Hill? Yea, but that happens but his best season was still probably in Toronto. Come on, give me example of ex-Jays who were actually mediocre here and became above average as soon as they left.
Alexis Rios
With Jays
2009 - 14 HR,62 RBI,427 SLG,317 OBP
With Sox
2010 - 21 HR,88 RBI,457 SLG,334 OBP
2012 - 25 HR,91 RBI, 516 SLG,334 OBP

Aaron Hill
With Jays
2011- 6 HR,42 RBI,313 SLG,270 OBP
With D-Backs
2012 - 26 HR,85 RBI,522 SLG,360 OBP

Roy Halladay wasn't medicore but played up to his talent levels only just last year he had a bad season but so did Philly. Vernon Wells played rather well for the Jays, his numbers don't lie but people hated him anyways(he was making way too much) and has been on the decline since

Not saying its the same as the Leafs or anything but there are cases where guys left and played well.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:13 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
To be fair, last year was Hill's best, by quite a bit I might add.

And a few names that come to mind;

Carpenter
Agreed, the Jays gave up on him too early (possibly because they kind of got burned by Al Leiter helping him finally rehab his injuries never cutting him loose only to have him walk once he was ready and able), but at the time he was coming off shoulder surgery and hadn't shown any real glimmer of himself being a formidable starter for them in the future.

As for Escobar, I would blame Jays management on that one as well, they never really let him get comfy as a starter OR as a reliever, he was basically treated here the way Brandon Morrow was treated in Seattle, once LA said "you're a starter and we're keeping you there", he flourished.

Jeff Kent you can't really compare since he was a prospect and the Jays were in win-now mode, would you rather have kept Kent (keep in mind he was 2B with the Jays and we had Alomar), not gotten Cone and finished the playoffs WITHOUT the World Series title?

Michael Young, same as Kent, but didn't work out so well, we needed pitching help and dealt him for Esteban Loaiza (speaking of someone who flourished once he left...at least for one season).

Al Leiter, Jays traded one of their most popular outfielders in Jesse Barfield for this guy, he stayed in the infirmary for most of his tenure here with the Jays sticking by him (probably given they had paid such a high price they couldn't just let him walk) and he returned the favor by walking on the Jays once he was good and ready to be an everyday starter, bum IMHO.

Alex Rios, don't care if he flourishes in Chicago, was/is a five-tool outfielder yet was so frustrating to watch, and from all accounts he was a headcase, actually wanted to fight a Jays fan in public.

Mike Timlin won a World Series with us and was an integral part of the Jays bullpen just as much as he was with the Sox so it's not exactly a case of blooming once you left.

Jayson Werth traded for Linda Frasor, Jays should have showed more patience but didn't we all win?

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:42 AM
  #133
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You can't really make a case for the Jays, because for the most part they actually had pretty good asset management.

As for the Expos...

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:46 AM
  #134
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Sounds like it's possible the MLB could hand A-Rod a 50 game suspension for PED use, which will lead the Yankee's to considering options at voiding his contract.

This is probably a good thing for the Yankees. Get rid of that albatross contract, not have to play crappy Rodriguez.

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01-29-2013, 11:03 AM
  #135
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Where did u hear Arod will be suspended?

Why wont Gio too then?

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01-29-2013, 11:10 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Sounds like it's possible the MLB could hand A-Rod a 50 game suspension for PED use, which will lead the Yankee's to considering options at voiding his contract.

This is probably a good thing for the Yankees. Get rid of that albatross contract, not have to play crappy Rodriguez.
How would the Yankees be able to void the contract? Unless its specifically written in the contract that A-Rod contract is void if he uses PED, Yankees cannot just void the contract. I doubt its written in the contract either.

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01-29-2013, 11:39 AM
  #137
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Nelson Cruz and Gio Gonzalez linked to the clinic that gave A-Rod and Melky PED's

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:59 AM
  #138
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Oh A-Roid

I guess when A-Fraud was yelling "Mine!" to Johnny Mac, he meant the PEDs were his.

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01-29-2013, 12:01 PM
  #139
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Oh A-Roid

I guess when A-Fraud was yelling "Mine!" to Johnny Mac, he meant the PEDs were his.
Wasn't Johnny Mac.... It was some rookie who never ended up doing anything. Howie clark I think

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:05 PM
  #140
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Everyone can laugh at A-Rod, but if he gets suspended Melky's probably going down for 100 games too.

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01-29-2013, 12:06 PM
  #141
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Wasn't Johnny Mac.... It was some rookie who never ended up doing anything. Howie clark I think
yeah it was clark

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:19 PM
  #142
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According to the Miami New Times, Alex Rodriguez's name was found in the records of a Miami anti-aging clinic that allegedly supplied the New York Yankees third baseman and other big league players with performance-enhancing substances. Other players named were Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon and Yasmani Grandal

nobody is suprised really

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:39 PM
  #143
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Everyone can laugh at A-Rod, but if he gets suspended Melky's probably going down for 100 games too.
Melky's already served his time.

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #144
captn
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Alexis Rios
With Jays
2009 - 14 HR,62 RBI,427 SLG,317 OBP
With Sox
2010 - 21 HR,88 RBI,457 SLG,334 OBP
2012 - 25 HR,91 RBI, 516 SLG,334 OBP

Aaron Hill
With Jays
2011- 6 HR,42 RBI,313 SLG,270 OBP
With D-Backs
2012 - 26 HR,85 RBI,522 SLG,360 OBP

Roy Halladay wasn't medicore but played up to his talent levels only just last year he had a bad season but so did Philly. Vernon Wells played rather well for the Jays, his numbers don't lie but people hated him anyways(he was making way too much) and has been on the decline since

Not saying its the same as the Leafs or anything but there are cases where guys left and played well.
Why did you leave out Rios season in 2011? The one where he had a negative WAR?

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:28 PM
  #145
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Because it didn't help prove his point.

He also excluded the '06-'08 seasons for Rios where he was, you know, very good.

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01-29-2013, 01:28 PM
  #146
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How would the Yankees be able to void the contract? Unless its specifically written in the contract that A-Rod contract is void if he uses PED, Yankees cannot just void the contract. I doubt its written in the contract either.
Buster Olney said it, I forgot what he proof he had that the Yankees would go that route, I think it's misrepresenation or something along those lines.

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:30 PM
  #147
theaub
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Melky's already served his time.
If A-Rod is getting suspended for circumstantial evidence all bets are off.

I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening though unless Selig is turning into Roger Goddell with unwarranted witch hunts.

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Old
01-29-2013, 02:06 PM
  #148
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Why did you leave out Rios season in 2011? The one where he had a negative WAR?
Because 2 seasons are better than 1. I could have just used 2012,then you would ask why leave out 2011 then I'd bring back 2010...it saves posting to be honest. Players have off years, they're human afterall so they're allowed. Fact is, his numbers have been better in a sox uniform so I showed that so far he's had better years outside of Toronto than in.

I didn't lie about anything, in truth every player has bad years

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01-29-2013, 02:09 PM
  #149
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Because it didn't help prove his point.

He also excluded the '06-'08 seasons for Rios where he was, you know, very good.
2010 was a career year, and 2012 was even better. Yes he was good but he was declining when he left Toronto. It wasn't the same as Vernon Wells who had very good numbers then fell off a cliff once he left. I'm in no way saying players who leave Toronto become all stars(I even said this) I'm merely pointing out his career years were broken with the White Sox

Look at the stats if you think I'm conveniently leaving out information

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...riosal01.shtml

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01-29-2013, 02:40 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
2010 was a career year, and 2012 was even better. Yes he was good but he was declining when he left Toronto. It wasn't the same as Vernon Wells who had very good numbers then fell off a cliff once he left. I'm in no way saying players who leave Toronto become all stars(I even said this) I'm merely pointing out his career years were broken with the White Sox

Look at the stats if you think I'm conveniently leaving out information

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...riosal01.shtml
His OPS and WAR were better in 06 and 07.

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