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01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #151
Nasty Nazem
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Buster Olney said it, I forgot what he proof he had that the Yankees would go that route, I think it's misrepresenation or something along those lines.
Quote:
Rodriguez could face a suspension, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. However, don't expect the Yankees to be able to void the third baseman's contract. As Yahoo's Jeff Passan reports, the Yankees weren't able to void the deal after he admitted to using performance enhancing drugs for the first time (Twitter link). Rodriguez, who will miss much of the 2013 season recovering from a hip operation, has $114MM remaining on his contract with the Yankees.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...d-to-peds.html

I can't read Olney insider piece so I have no idea what he said but like I said, I doubt they could void that contract. They can try but unless its already written in the contract that Alex Rodriguez contract could be void if he PED's, then it cannot be void. Yankees can try to make it happen but if there is no legal way to do it, they can't. They could also cause a war between MLB and MLBPA in the process.

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01-29-2013, 02:49 PM
  #152
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Just thinking out loud, can Melky even be suspended for this? I mean, we already know he was suspended last season for this stuff and unless he would take more PED's during suspension or off-season (why would he?), can he even be suspended for the same offense?

I'd imagine there also needs to be some legitimate proof that the players did in fact take this too instead of just information or names written on a list.

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01-29-2013, 02:53 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...d-to-peds.html

I can't read Olney insider piece so I have no idea what he said but like I said, I doubt they could void that contract. They can try but unless its already written in the contract that Alex Rodriguez contract could be void if he PED's, then it cannot be void. Yankees can try to make it happen but if there is no legal way to do it, they can't. They could also cause a war between MLB and MLBPA in the process.
This is an exert from the Olney insider article (Not the whole thing)

Quote:
We wrote here in early November about the concern in MLB about how an alleged cell of PED use in Miami may have become something like BALCO east, and there was more from ESPN.com and the Daily News over the weekend about the links.

This morning, Tim Elfrink of the Miami New Times has more details.

It's a developing story, with many players allegedly involved, and MLB is trying to get traction in its own investigation. Among the others, MLB will examine the links to Alex Rodriguez. And if what is alleged in the New Times report is accurate -- that Rodriguez was using PEDs as recently as last season -- it may be that Rodriguez's prolific career could be all but over.

Rodriguez has five years and $114 million remaining on his contract. What MLB could do -- as they did with Jason Giambi -- is summon him to New York and present him with whatever evidence they have, and press him for answers about the details.

If Rodriguez is suspended, then presumably the Yankees will do their own review of their options -- such as trying to void the contract because of misrepresentation, in the same way that former sponsors and business partners of Lance Armstrong have been trying to do in recent days.

But let's face it: Rodriguez is going to be evaluated by the Yankees (and other teams) on a very practical level, like a math equation. On one side of the measurement is the player's possible production, and on the other side are the off-field issues. Let's call it the Manny Scale, for Manny Ramirez -- because once Manny stopped being an elite or even good offensive player, teams stopped giving him opportunity.

For a young catcher such as Yasmani Grandal, who has been suspended for the first 50 games of the 2013 season but has years ahead of him, the future numbers far outweigh the downside of keeping him -- and so the Padres would give no thought to dumping him.

But Rodriguez is now 37 years old, and that equation is very different. His best days are behind him, and given the major hip surgery he just had earlier this month, it's not even clear that he'll play in 2013 -- and when he comes back, it's not clear that he can be even an average player. If MLB finds him in violation of the drug-testing agreement and he is suspended, the Manny Scale may tip once and for all for Rodriguez.

The Yankees may go after him in every way they can to extract as much financial relief as possible from the dollars they still owe him. It may be that Rodriguez's career in New York ended with those ugly postseason performances against the Orioles and Tigers. It may be that other teams won't want him either, in the way they haven't wanted Ramirez.
To sum it up, the Yankee's could use the same tactics Lance Armstrong sponsors are using.

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01-29-2013, 02:58 PM
  #154
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whoops

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01-29-2013, 03:11 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
This is an exert from the Olney insider article (Not the whole thing)



To sum it up, the Yankee's could use the same tactics Lance Armstrong sponsors are using.
If Yankees could void his contract, they would have done it when he admitted he was a PED user a few years ago.

I don't know how Armstrong situation applies to this. Different sport, different contract, different unions (does Cycling have a union?). Losing sponsors is a different thing as well where it is probably written in the contract where misrepresentation can come into affect.

If the allegation are true, all that likely happens is that A-Rod gets suspended (losing his salary for the amount of suspension) and then just comes back.

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01-29-2013, 03:22 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
If Yankees could void his contract, they would have done it when he admitted he was a PED user a few years ago.

I don't know how Armstrong situation applies to this. Different sport, different contract, different unions (does Cycling have a union?). Losing sponsors is a different thing as well where it is probably written in the contract where misrepresentation can come into affect.

If the allegation are true, all that likely happens is that A-Rod gets suspended (losing his salary for the amount of suspension) and then just comes back.
He was a good player back then. The "Manny Scale" from the article. When a player is good or even great, they are worth enough on the field to ignore the off-field issues, but when they suck this is no longer the case. This is why teams were interested in Melky, and why San Diego doesn't jettison Grandal. However, Rodriguez is awful now, and on a worse contract than Vernon Wells.

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01-29-2013, 08:22 PM
  #157
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If A-Rod is getting suspended for circumstantial evidence all bets are off.
.
So you think because they might suspend A-Rod, they are going to suspend Melky again for the same thing? Don't think any arbitrator would allow that considering he's already served his suspension.

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01-29-2013, 11:07 PM
  #158
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

MLB Network made a list of their top 100 prospects. Only 2 Blue Jays on it, Aaron Sanchez at #35 and Roberto Osuna at #90. However, Marisnick, Nicolino, D'Arnaud, and Syndergaard are all on it. D'Arnaud and Syndergaard are both ahead of Sanchez at #6 and #29 respectively.

Reading fan opinion of the list, it sounds like people think it's crap.

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01-30-2013, 03:34 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

MLB Network made a list of their top 100 prospects. Only 2 Blue Jays on it, Aaron Sanchez at #35 and Roberto Osuna at #90. However, Marisnick, Nicolino, D'Arnaud, and Syndergaard are all on it. D'Arnaud and Syndergaard are both ahead of Sanchez at #6 and #29 respectively.

Reading fan opinion of the list, it sounds like people think it's crap.
We don't have one prospect in the top 30? I'm not an expert on the Jays farm system or anything, but does this mean we have the worst prospects in the league? At least the worst top tier prospects in the league? Since their are 30 teams, and the jays don't even have 1 player in the top 30? I'm a little disappointed if I'm analyzing this right.

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01-30-2013, 04:27 AM
  #160
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We don't have one prospect in the top 30? I'm not an expert on the Jays farm system or anything, but does this mean we have the worst prospects in the league? At least the worst top tier prospects in the league? Since their are 30 teams, and the jays don't even have 1 player in the top 30? I'm a little disappointed if I'm analyzing this right.
No it means we no longer have any bonifide elite prospects. Although if Gose still qualified he would prolly be in the #30-40 range. We still have alot of talented prospects in the system but most if not all are in the lower minors and they really never get much love on top 100 lists like this. Our farm on the whole prolly ranks in the 15-20 range leaguewide.

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01-30-2013, 06:38 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Urban Explorer View Post
We don't have one prospect in the top 30? I'm not an expert on the Jays farm system or anything, but does this mean we have the worst prospects in the league? At least the worst top tier prospects in the league? Since their are 30 teams, and the jays don't even have 1 player in the top 30? I'm a little disappointed if I'm analyzing this right.
Apparently, your unaware of the off season we just had. Our farm system is still ok it's just not what it was before this off season.

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01-30-2013, 07:30 AM
  #162
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Apparently, your unaware of the off season we just had. Our farm system is still ok it's just not what it was before this off season.
And it will get stronger with through the upcoming draft

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01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
  #163
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So you think because they might suspend A-Rod, they are going to suspend Melky again for the same thing? Don't think any arbitrator would allow that considering he's already served his suspension.
I agree that double jeopardy applies if its the same drug he got suspended for, but there's always the off chance that it isn't.

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01-30-2013, 10:33 AM
  #164
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I agree that double jeopardy applies if its the same drug he got suspended for, but there's always the off chance that it isn't.
I can't imagine they can suspend him for a different ped he used last year when that's when his suspension took place. You would have to think that it pretty much covers anything he took up to that point. If it says he took it after his suspension than sure but I don't believe that's the case.

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01-30-2013, 10:35 AM
  #165
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Yea Sanchez might be ranked lower than Syndergaard.. But his potential is higher than Syndergaard, I actually believe Sanchez may pull ahead this season. The main thing he has to do is cut down his walk rates, his pitches are all plus pitches.

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01-30-2013, 10:35 AM
  #166
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And it will get stronger with through the upcoming draft
absolutely it will. The jays have a pretty strong record drafting under AA's leadership.

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01-30-2013, 10:37 AM
  #167
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absolutely it will. The jays have a pretty strong record drafting under AA's leadership.
The top ten pick alone could be in the top 50 by the end of the season.

Its not often that you see a team trade for 4 former all-stars in an offseason and not have a cupboard thats absolutely bone dry.

It only took AA a handful of years to get the prospect pool to where it was before the moves. It won't take him any longer to restock the cupboard.

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01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #168
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T It won't take him any longer to restock the cupboard.
While AA is an awesome GM, and I don't doubt his drafting abilities, that sadly, won't be the case.
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure they changed the rules for drafting, taking away compensation picks, which is what AA used well.
Now that we have a pretty good team, on paper atm, it will take some time before the cupboard is stocked like it was.

But man am I looking forward to this season!

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01-30-2013, 11:17 AM
  #169
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The top ten pick alone could be in the top 50 by the end of the season.

Its not often that you see a team trade for 4 former all-stars in an offseason and not have a cupboard thats absolutely bone dry.

It only took AA a handful of years to get the prospect pool to where it was before the moves. It won't take him any longer to restock the cupboard.
Well in all honesty it will take him longer to re stock it now. We no longer have draft pick compensation which AA beautifully took advantage of. With the new cba and contract limits to draft picks we can't take quite as many chances. But he worked the system the best he could last year. Your looking at toping out at about 4 or 5 really good prospects per draft year. Which is less then we're use to seeing. Add to that we now have a good team that will not "hopefully" be putting us in a position to draft near the top. But AA always seems to find a way.

For the poster that seems concerned about our lack of prospect depth or the high end prospects that make that list. Here are guys we still have in our system that you can watch for in the years to come

Obviously, Sanchez and Osuna. Osuna wasn't on the list last year and I believe he's still only 17. He'll be moving up the ranks even through this year if his progress continues down the same path.

Marcus Stroman
DJ Davis
Sean Nolin
Anthony Alford
Matt Smoral
Adonys Cardona
Daniel Norris
John Stilson
Chase DeJong
Dwight Smith jr
AJ Jimenez
Alberto Tirado
Sean Nolin
Matt Dean
Tyler Gonzales
Santiago Nessy

guys that could still make an impact but have struggled or are early in development

Jacob Anderson
Kellen Sweeney
Chris Lopes
Deck McGuire ( I think will find his stride this year)
Chris Hawkins
Kevin Pillar
Taylor Cole
Javier Avendano
Balbino Fuenmayor ( I like him for power purposes long shot)
Art Charles long shot
Ian Parmley
Carlos Perez

We still have Gose, Sierra, Jenkins, Drabek, Hutchinson, Cooper and so on as depth ready to fill in with the exception of the guys recovering from TJ. I'm sure I've left out a bunch of guys but our pool still has some very good potential. AA loves the high risk prospect and we have a good number of them remaining in our system that just need to put it together.

I'm sure

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01-30-2013, 03:13 PM
  #170
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Sam "best stuff in the organization" Dyson is claimed by the Marlins. Jays did an excellent job losing an asset for nothing. He was put on 40 man roster when he didn't have to be for no reason, made a whopping 2 outs in his call-up before being sent down and now Jays lose him for nothing a few months later. He's not much of an arm but at least he was formidable depth. Bad asset management right here.

Jays sign Andy Laroche to minor league deal.

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01-30-2013, 03:25 PM
  #171
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He hasn't been talked about, but I think Mitch Nay has the potential to be something pretty big. Injuries have derailed his start to pro ball, and it will take time to develop him, but his raw power is impressive.

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01-30-2013, 03:29 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by GAMO1992 View Post
While AA is an awesome GM, and I don't doubt his drafting abilities, that sadly, won't be the case.
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure they changed the rules for drafting, taking away compensation picks, which is what AA used well.
Now that we have a pretty good team, on paper atm, it will take some time before the cupboard is stocked like it was.

But man am I looking forward to this season!
I believe that loophole AA exploited ravenously has effectively been shut down with new system, so rebuilding to the same level will be very difficult

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01-30-2013, 03:37 PM
  #173
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From my understanding the new system was implemented last season, and AA had a very good draft last year in terms of potential.

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01-30-2013, 04:48 PM
  #174
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From my understanding the new system was implemented last season, and AA had a very good draft last year in terms of potential.
He did do well last year at the draft but he was still limited although everyone was. They went big of 5 picks and wasted like 6 to allocate the money for them. It did limit how many risks they could take.

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01-30-2013, 07:00 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

MLB Network made a list of their top 100 prospects. Only 2 Blue Jays on it, Aaron Sanchez at #35 and Roberto Osuna at #90. However, Marisnick, Nicolino, D'Arnaud, and Syndergaard are all on it. D'Arnaud and Syndergaard are both ahead of Sanchez at #6 and #29 respectively.

Reading fan opinion of the list, it sounds like people think it's crap.
Anyone else find it funny how all the prospects we traded are now so much more highly viewed now that they are out of our organization? Reminds me of when the Sox traded Casey Kelly in the Gonzalez deal and he suddenly dropped from a top 10 prospect to the late 30's simply because he went from a big market to a small one.

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