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The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

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01-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #226
pooleboy
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
1. Trade Kessel to Minny for Coyle ( big #2C prospect ready now and has the tools we need as a big nasty centre ) + Dumba ( a premier physical D prospect ) + 1st 2013

Minny does this because there close and Kessel might make them the Fav...

2. Kulemen to Pittsburg for Beau Bennett

3. Phaneuf to Washington for Forsberg & 1st

4. McCarthur for 2nd

Draft

we will be top 5 and get our # 1 C & package 2 firsts to get another top 10 pick to get another winger like Kessel
you forgot to trade Lupul and Grabo for prospect +1sts and trade those 1sts for another top 10. then draft Mackinnon, Drouin and SHinkaurak omgomgomgomg

notsrs

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01-27-2013, 12:45 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
but what happens when the next group wants a raise?
gardiner kadri jvr etc.....
JVR is under contract for 6 years, so nothing to worry about there.

Kadri is RFA next year (How high can his demands reasonably go)?, we have some control or atleast compensation, if it goes south.

Gardner is not RFA till 2014/15. Once again, we have some control or compensation. Lets see what he turns into first.

Will the cap be stuck at 64m forever more? I don't see that happening.

I guess my question to you would be, who on this team, in this organization would you not shuffle about to make Getz and Perry part of this team for the next 7/8 years? And i don't mean trade to get G/P, these are asset free UFA signings.

IDK about you, but the words heaven and earth come to mind.


Last edited by Faltorvo: 01-27-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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01-27-2013, 12:47 PM
  #228
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Wait, you say 6/7 years is ok length but it's only going to be a "few" years before the league starts to see the issues from the retirement contracts already signed? Whats a few years? and who are these players of concern?

How odd is it that we could have compliance bought out Kabber a few times if that had become a reality the 10 years, 10 years ago thingy.

What do you think will happen in 8 years if so many of these retirement contracts screw up too many teams?

Do you think the majority of owners won't be reviewing that issue when the CBA can be reopened in 8 years?
6-7 years in length is okay to sign your own players, if it comes down to it. I really wouldn't go passed 5.

And players of concern?

Pronger
Luongo
Kovalchuk
Hossa
Zetterberg
Weber

How does any respectable GM sign free agents with the hope of being given amnesty clauses or any other sort of help from future CBA negotiations?

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01-27-2013, 12:50 PM
  #229
ErnieLeafs
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We're in the middle of a rebuild. Currently.

Why would we off-load Kessel, who's 25, had 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons, and has A LOT of good years left in him, when he's an important core piece to begin with? Because he's the legacy of our old GM? because what he represents to angry fans?

lol. Jokes. Ahhhh, I remember the days of everyone screaming and crying about not having an elite winger to play with Sundin. How we could never get over the hump without one.... we were screwed.....

We have that piece now, we just need to acquire a few more, and by the way the team is playing, we're positioning ourselves to add at least one at this year's draft.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:51 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
MMMMM, well i guess it's relative to what you spend on your 3rd/4th lines and 5,6,7 D and back up tender. All we need to do is stop paying guys in that range the wrong kinds $.

For instance lets just spit ball here for a sec, we bring in Getz and Perry both at 8m cap hits.

Thats 16m , move out Komi(compliance) and Grabo(trade, for picks,prospects) cap hits, thats 10m , so far we have added 6m cap and Connollys 4.75 and Lombardi 1.5m is off the books=6.25m, making it a relative cap push. Macs 3.25m leaves and the clouds part.

Kessel is at 5.4m right now and Dion is at 6.5m , they are both due in the same year.

So what you take from Dion(5.5m instead of 6.5m) and the 2m from Army/Tucker buy outs(1+1+1=3.0m), you add to Phil(5.4 to 7.5= 2.1m needed) and that turns into a relative cap push.
Trust me, I've tried. Majority of the posters on this board don't recognize the importance of flexibility or the big picture.

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01-27-2013, 12:52 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by ernieleafs View Post
we're in the middle of a rebuild. Currently.

Why would we off-load kessel, who's 25, had 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons, and has a lot of good years left in him, when he's an important core piece to begin with? Because he's the legacy of our old gm? Because what he represents to angry fans?

Lol. Jokes. Ahhhh, i remember the days of everyone screaming and crying about not having an elite winger to play with sundin. How we could never get over the hump without one.... We were screwed.....

We have that piece now, we just need to acquire a few more, and by the way the team is playing, we're positioning ourselves to add at least one at this year's draft.
+10000

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01-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
We're in the middle of a rebuild. Currently.

Why would we off-load Kessel, who's 25, had 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons, and has A LOT of good years left in him, when he's an important core piece to begin with? Because he's the legacy of our old GM? because what he represents to angry fans?

lol. Jokes. Ahhhh, I remember the days of everyone screaming and crying about not having an elite winger to play with Sundin. How we could never get over the hump without one.... we were screwed.....

We have that piece now, we just need to acquire a few more, and by the way the team is playing, we're positioning ourselves to add at least one at this year's draft.
There are no untouchables on the Leafs.

However, that doesn't mean you trade for the sake of trade.

Kessel isn't a player you build around, he just isn't that type, but he is an excellent support player. To me he's like a Gaborik, without a Richards.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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01-27-2013, 12:55 PM
  #233
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I was unaware the Leafs are building around Kessel.

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01-27-2013, 12:59 PM
  #234
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Kessel value at the moment is not that good 0 Gs in 6 games he looks invisible and is just shooting at random

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01-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I was unaware the Leafs are building around Kessel.
Why did someone say they were?

I'm sure Burke thought he was a building block, otherwise he'd never have done the deal.

However, if you are referring to my post do you think he's untouchable or untradeable?

If you can make the team better, and not discernibly older would you let your love of a player stop you from making the deal? Is it about the player or about the team?

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01-27-2013, 01:01 PM
  #236
ErnieLeafs
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Why is it, that because someone disputes trading an important player like Kessel (and yes, he is VERY important moving forward), that all of a sudden, they're suggesting that we're building around him?

I never once said we're building around him. We aren't. He's a support piece. As far as our franchise is concerned, we're building around Phaneuf on the blueline, and we've been adding support/depth pieces up front. We're also missing a legitimate #1 goalie between the pipes. We have a couple of pieces in Gardiner, Rielly, Kessel, Kadri, and Lupul, but the build is far from over. We're not technically building around any one of those guys as a bell cow, as none of them are, in fact, a bell cow. We're just didn't start with a #1 at each position to build around.

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01-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #237
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
6-7 years in length is okay to sign your own players, if it comes down to it. I really wouldn't go passed 5.

And players of concern?

Pronger
Luongo
Kovalchuk
Hossa
Zetterberg
Weber

How does any respectable GM sign free agents with the hope of being given amnesty clauses or any other sort of help from future CBA negotiations?
For starters thats an owners call, regarding the amnesty clauses.

Secondly the owners have given themselves these "correct the market" options in the last 2 CBAs. I see no reason for that to change in 8 years, if this turns into the rampant issue your hinting at.

Pronger is not an issue LTIR has him covered.

Lou is covered if Van so choses, they have 2 amnesties.

How does a respectable GM not take full advantage of the rules in place during the length of that CBA?

NYR was able to get around the Redden,Gomez issue and Mon ducked the Gomez issue also. There have been "corrective measures" put in place in the past and i see no reason for that to stop now.

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01-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #238
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I wouldn't trade all the older guys, and I wouldn't keep all the younger guys

Keep...
Kadri 22
JVR 23
Frattin 25
Komarov 26
Kulemin 26
Brown 27
McClement 29
Orr 30
Gardiner 22

Trade...
Kessel 25
Bozak 26
MacArthur 27
Grabovski 28
Lupul 29
Steckle 30
Liles 32
Komisarek 31
Phaneuf 27
Gunnarsson 26
Franson 25

Keep developing...
Colborne
McKegg
Rielly
Blacker
Finn
Percy
Ashton
Biggs
Ross
Deschamps
D'Amigo

And hope some of them stick

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Old
01-27-2013, 01:05 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by VALDAL View Post
Kessel value at the moment is not that good 0 Gs in 6 games he looks invisible and is just shooting at random
Wow he must really be working hard if he's played more games than the rest of the team

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01-27-2013, 01:05 PM
  #240
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Why is it, that because someone disputes trading an important player like Kessel (and yes, he is VERY important moving forward), that all of a sudden, they're suggesting that we're building around him?

I never once said we're building around him. We aren't. He's a support piece. As far as our franchise is concerned, we're building around Phaneuf on the blueline, and we've been adding support/depth pieces up front. We're also missing a legitimate #1 goalie between the pipes. We have a couple of pieces in Gardiner, Rielly, Kessel, Kadri, and Lupul, but the build is far from over. We're not technically building around any one of those guys as a bell cow, as none of them are, in fact, a bell cow. We're just didn't start with a #1 at each position to build around.
Perhaps commenting about building blocks set the expectations about the player.

If he's a building block you likely don't trade him, if he's a support player why would anyone hesitate to trade him if you can acquire building blocks?

Kessel might be more talented than Toews, might put up more points, might be more exciting, might have cost more, but I'd take the less talented Toews (if he is less talented) and his game over Kessel. I believe there are probably Kessel fans who would not do that deal.

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01-27-2013, 01:06 PM
  #241
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I'm seriously excited at the thoughts of getting Nare. The absolute perfect center to play with Kessel and Lupul. If we draft him, I hope we can still manage to lock Kessel up long term. Sadly, if we continue missing the playoffs, he might walk.

Lupul - Nate - Kessel
JVR - Kadri - Kulemin
Cmac - Bozak - Biggs

That's a solid top 9, offer Grabo and Frattin for Luongo.

I wish we could sign Perry to a monster deal but I'm a realistic fan. Adding him would make our top 9 insane

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01-27-2013, 01:11 PM
  #242
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Wow he must really be working hard if he's played more games than the rest of the team
Perhaps VALDAL feels Miller is going to shutout the Leafs next game.

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01-27-2013, 01:24 PM
  #243
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Man, that "News Article: Hamilton 'Happy' to not be in Toronto" thread on the Bruins board is damn depressing.

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01-27-2013, 01:28 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Man, that "News Article: Hamilton 'Happy' to not be in Toronto" thread on the Bruins board is damn depressing.
Lets be honest, if he was drafted by the Leafs he would tell "Leafs nation" what they want to hear. No big deal.

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01-27-2013, 01:29 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Perhaps commenting about building blocks set the expectations about the player.

If he's a building block you likely don't trade him, if he's a support player why would anyone hesitate to trade him if you can acquire building blocks?

Kessel might be more talented than Toews, might put up more points, might be more exciting, might have cost more, but I'd take the less talented Toews (if he is less talented) and his game over Kessel. I believe there are probably Kessel fans who would not do that deal.
Sure, you would take a center, and a captain, over a support winger, but that's not about to be the case, is it? Management values Phil highly, and people need to quit living their lives in hypotheticals.

Our team is so unfortunate, to have to deal with having Phil Kessel. Such a hindrance, and such a stain on our organization. What ever will we do now that we have a top-6 scorer in the league on this team?!

Why, we should trade him for some unknowns! Despite the fact that he's only 25, and clearly a core piece moving forward! Forget about all of that!!!! He's the legacy of a GM who we just fired!!!

Honestly..... I lose faith coming to this board, more than I do watching the team blow leads.

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01-27-2013, 01:29 PM
  #246
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Trade everyone on the roster but Kadri,JVR,Gardiner,Frattin,Kulemin,Grabo. The rest can go for picks and prospects! We aren't going to get nowhere with this team, iunno how some Leafs fans think we can actually make playoffs with this team. Rebuilding and waiting 3 years is better than trying to make the playoffs for 3 years and then realizing we aren't good enough and start fresh then. thats another 3 years.

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01-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Sure, you would take a center, and a captain, over a support winger, but that's not about to be the case, is it? Management values Phil highly, and people need to quit living their lives in hypotheticals.

Our team is so unfortunate, to have to deal with having Phil Kessel. Such a hindrance, and such a stain on our organization. What ever will we do now that we have a top-6 scorer in the league on this team?!

Why, we should trade him for some unknowns! Despite the fact that he's only 25, and clearly a core piece moving forward! Forget about all of that!!!! He's the legacy of a GM who we just fired!!!

Honestly..... I lose faith coming to this board, more than I do watching the team blow leads.
If you just want to read the facts you don't need to visit a discussion board. Just watch tv and get the reports.

Leafs lost last night, and didn't look particularly good doing so. See no need for discussions.

Kessel is an offensive player, something he is very good at, but that's it. We can want him to be someone else, but that doesn't make it so.

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01-27-2013, 02:08 PM
  #248
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I'm not knocking the choice of Rielly at all. Just pointing out that Burke didn't seem interested in Galchenyuk even if he had been available.
Maybe he wanted a elite PMD man with excellent character and vision. Rather than a Center that was playing left wing for Sarnia this year, at the worlds, and for the Canadiens this year. If he is the stud C most are saying he is, strange they do not play him there.

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01-27-2013, 02:10 PM
  #249
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Maybe he wanted a elite PMD man with excellent character and vision. Rather than a Center that was playing left wing for Sarnia this year, at the worlds, and for the Canadiens this year. If he is the stud C most are saying he is, strange they do not play him there.
If Rielly was a stud defender he'd be with the Leafs helping them win rather than back in junior playing against kids. ;-)

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01-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #250
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If Rielly was a stud defender he'd be with the Leafs helping them win rather than back in junior playing against kids. ;-)
You mean if he was good as Luke Schenn was a 18.

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