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The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #476
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Except Lehtonen re-upped with Dallas, did he not?

Getzlaf will likely do the same with Anaheim (IMO).
Yes, I don't see Lehtonen on the UFA list, but there are several keepers there ... who'll likely sign beforehand anyway.

And yes, it is unlikely the Leafs will get Getzlaf.

Kessel without a 1st. line center is what we see today. Like against the Rangers and continuously against the Bruins.

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01-28-2013, 09:45 AM
  #477
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You mean like what EDM did with Schultz?

Like Parise and Suter joining a team that had missed the POs 4 straight years?
Go back a page and see why you even trying to bring up Parise and Suter is ridiculous. Everyone knows personal factors were involved (which was eluded to in my post).

Yes. Justin Schultz is a young player who chose to go where young drafted players were, and if you're trying to suggest that he's a Perry/Getzlaf level free agent... Well, there's your problem.

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01-28-2013, 09:47 AM
  #478
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Schultz also isn't an impact player the level of Getzlaf or Perry, in the prime of his career, or looking at the same set of circumstances as the two of them.

Using that, just to be argumentative....? Lol

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01-28-2013, 09:49 AM
  #479
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Whatever we do we better keep our picks.

I'm still hoping this group can sneak into the playoffs and get some experience there for our young guys, but I dont see it as that likely.

I say we keep our picks, trade a few guys who aren't part of the plan going forward for additional picks, and then be extremely aggressive and active in free agency.

Whether it's Getzlaf, Perry, Horton, or whoever, we offer big bucks and nab the top 2-3 free agents whoever they may be.

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01-28-2013, 09:51 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
Whatever we do we better keep our picks.

I'm still hoping this group can sneak into the playoffs and get some experience there for our young guys, but I dont see it as that likely.

I say we keep our picks, trade a few guys who aren't part of the plan going forward for additional picks, and then be extremely aggressive and active in free agency.

Whether it's Getzlaf, Perry, Horton, or whoever, we offer big bucks and nab the top 2-3 free agents whoever they may be.
Who would you trade?

MacArthur and Liles are at the top of my list. Franson as well if we aren't going to use him. I hope some team gives this guy a chance.

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01-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #481
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Who would you trade?

MacArthur and Liles are at the top of my list. Franson as well if we aren't going to use him. I hope some team gives this guy a chance.
Those guys for sure, but really there shouldn't be many, if any at all, untouchables.

If the return was right, I'd look at options on just about anybody on this team. We've been bad for so long, I have no problem being patient for a couple seasons if it's what's best for the team.

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01-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yes, I don't see Lehtonen on the UFA list, but there are several keepers there ... who'll likely sign beforehand anyway.

And yes, it is unlikely the Leafs will get Getzlaf.

Kessel without a 1st. line center is what we see today. Like against the Rangers and continuously against the Bruins.
Yep.

Tough to be optimistic these days.

Leafs appear to be in trouble...so not much has changed.

Should be interesting to see what management does. Not much us as fans can do about it except watch and wait, taking every scrap of hope we can get.

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01-28-2013, 11:04 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
It's funny when people say "we need to bottom out, draft Jones/MacK/Barkov, then sign Getzlaf and Perry in FA".

It's like it's so easy. You're NOT going to attract those guys, unless they have the specific desire to play on their home soil, and if that was the case, what about a tank inspires them to play here.

Simply nonsense.
That's the model Boston partially used, they first drafted very well with a bevy of 2nd rd picks. Ie Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand and a first rd pick Kessel.

2/ The developed their prospects
3/They promoted them when ready
4/Made strategic moves by letting go players that didn't fit the team's vision and got assets. Ie. Kessel, Thornton, Stuart, Murray
5/Instead they signed players that did fit their vision,by allocating cap resources to them. Ie. Lucic
6/The kicker here was they signed Chara, Savard, and Thomas as UFA's
7/Retooled with trades that added to their stanley cup winning line up. Ie. Seidenburg, Horton.

What's wrong with this model?

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01-28-2013, 11:07 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
Those guys for sure, but really there shouldn't be many, if any at all, untouchables.

If the return was right, I'd look at options on just about anybody on this team. We've been bad for so long, I have no problem being patient for a couple seasons if it's what's best for the team.
Yea, I agree with you on all points

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01-28-2013, 11:33 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That's the model Boston partially used, they first drafted very well with a bevy of 2nd rd picks. Ie Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand and a first rd pick Kessel.

2/ The developed their prospects
3/They promoted them when ready
4/Made strategic moves by letting go players that didn't fit the team's vision and got assets. Ie. Kessel, Thornton, Stuart, Murray
5/Instead they signed players that did fit their vision,by allocating cap resources to them. Ie. Lucic
6/The kicker here was they signed Chara, Savard, and Thomas as UFA's
7/Retooled with trades that added to their stanley cup winning line up. Ie. Seidenburg, Horton.

What's wrong with this model?
I've been waiting for the Leafs to make Boston style moves, draft some gems and get some top end UFAs at the same time since 2009. Burke really bungled up everything with his stupid rules about circumvention.

But without the roster taking significant steps towards competitiveness, which would moot the tank talk, I don't see too many UFAs willing to put their careers on the line to come here and clean up this mess.

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01-28-2013, 11:39 AM
  #486
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HockeyCentral is actually making a lot of sense today.

I'm asking myself the same thing:

How the heck are the Leafs in this situation 4 years into a rebuild? It really sucks that the Leafs are still aiming for the 8th spot and besides Kessel we've got zero game breakers.

I'm all ready for to push the reset button, take another 2-3 years and draft top 3-5 for 2 years.

I hate when people say: The Leafs are the 2nd youngest team. I'd take the rosters of at least 15 teams that are older than us if given a chance.

I'd rather be a team like the Oilers right now.

They've got Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov etc...the hard part is all but done for them. Now all they need to do is round out the team.

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01-28-2013, 11:42 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I've been waiting for the Leafs to make Boston style moves, draft some gems and get some top end UFAs at the same time since 2009. Burke really bungled up everything with his stupid rules about circumvention.

But without the roster taking significant steps towards competitiveness, which would moot the tank talk, I don't see too many UFAs willing to put their careers on the line to come here and clean up this mess.
Yeah, I don't see Perry or Getzlaf or any other top UFA putting their reputation as an elite player on the line for the Leafs when just about every team with cap space will give them a blank cheque.

The only way the Leafs will get better is by drafting and developing from within.

Burke said July 1st was his draft day...well that clearly paid off.

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01-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I've been waiting for the Leafs to make Boston style moves, draft some gems and get some top end UFAs at the same time since 2009. Burke really bungled up everything with his stupid rules about circumvention.

But without the roster taking significant steps towards competitiveness, which would moot the tank talk, I don't see too many UFAs willing to put their careers on the line to come here and clean up this mess.
Chiarelli is an excellent builder of a team, he is also an excellent evaluator of value. I hope Nonis will make similar calls, the Kessel, Grabo and Phaneuf ones to change the culture of this team and put a new stamp on it.

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01-28-2013, 11:45 AM
  #489
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You don't even need all top picks. You just need to draft WELL. Mid and late first have created good players before. Accumulate as many picks as you can and take as many shots as you can. Hopefully a few pan out. If our scouts do their jobs well, we shouldn't have to blow anything up. There should be a constant influx of talent

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01-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Chiarelli is an excellent builder of a team, he is also an excellent evaluator of value. I hope Nonis will make similar calls, the Kessel, Grabo and Phaneuf to change the culture of this team and put a new stamp on it.
I feel we are at the same stage the Bruins were when they traded Thornton...their only star player and hit the reset button.

After that they drafted Lucic, Kessel, saw Bergeron and Krejci rise from the depth charts, signed Chara etc.

This team needs to do something similar.

I just don't know how the Leafs can really say that the core they have is enough to win the Cup.

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01-28-2013, 11:48 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Yeah, I don't see Perry or Getzlaf or any other top UFA putting their reputation as an elite player on the line for the Leafs when just about every team with cap space will give them a blank cheque.

The only way the Leafs will get better is by drafting and developing from within.

Burke said July 1st was his draft day...well that clearly paid off.
lupul will get getzlaf and perry over here.
but kessel, phanauf and grabo have to go, rebuild

lupul -getzlaf- perry
jvr- kadri- ?
?-?-?
?-players we get back for trading k,p,g. young ready top prospects

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01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #492
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You don't even need all top picks. You just need to draft WELL. Mid and late first have created good players before. Accumulate as many picks as you can and take as many shots as you can. Hopefully a few pan out. If our scouts do their jobs well, we shouldn't have to blow anything up. There should be a constant influx of talent
No thanks,

i prefer to defer to the historical highest % odds of finding game breakers in the draft and those are in the high draft slots.

Now, IF your talking about having a high draft slot AND added 1rst,2nd round picks, then I'm all for it.

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01-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #493
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No thanks,

i prefer to defer to the historical highest % odds of finding game breakers in the draft and those are in the high draft slots.

Now, IF your talking about having a high draft slot AND added 1rst,2nd round picks, then I'm all for it.
He's not saying to trade our pick.

He's just saying to accumulate more picks in the 2012 draft by trading off anyone we don't see as part of the immediate future..

Guys like Franson, MacArthur etc.

Who knows? Maybe the hockey gods finally have mercy at us and give us a Giroux or Eberle in the late round

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01-28-2013, 11:52 AM
  #494
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I feel we are at the same stage the Bruins were when they traded Thornton...their only star player and hit the reset button.

After that they drafted Lucic, Kessel, saw Bergeron and Krejci rise from the depth charts, signed Chara etc.

This team needs to do something similar.

I just don't know how the Leafs can really say that the core they have is enough to win the Cup.
This is my point, cap allocation, having a GM to identify pieces that are retainable. I wonder if these why trade Kessel or Grabo posters know how Boston rose to be a power in the NHL?

Here is a model that worked, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. The Raycroft for Rask deal are ones we should be examining.

Not rocket science if one can not be a sentimental fool.

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01-28-2013, 11:55 AM
  #495
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1. Play the Kids - Sell who's not working out off roster (MacA/Franson/Komi?/Stekel/Brown)
2. Major Shakeup - Trade Kessel for a 1G/PWF responsible both ends - Demote Dion 2nd pairing - no 'C'
3. Promote Eakins - Randy's a Dinosaur
4. Draft a Stud C - Ease him into lineup
5. Fillout lineup via UFA (toughness will be a priority)

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01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
This is my point, cap allocation, having a GM to identify pieces that are retainable. I wonder if these why trade Kessel or Grabo posters know how Boston rose to be a power in the NHL?

Here is a model that worked, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. The Raycroft for Rask deal are ones we should be examining.

Not rocket science if one can not be a sentimental fool.
Exactly. People are getting too attached to a team that has provided nothing but failures.

I don't get why people don't understand that this is a bottom feeding team. It might become slightly better if Luongo was in net, but it doesn't make us a contender.

The assets Phaneuf and Kessel could get us would put us in the right direction to compete in two to three years.

Meanwhile we would still have exciting players on the roster, all while we have a chance to draft guys like Jones, MacKinnon, Ekblad etc.

Nobody on this team is untouchable to me. Nobody. Everyone on this team can be traded for the right price.

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01-28-2013, 11:58 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
You don't even need all top picks. You just need to draft WELL. Mid and late first have created good players before. Accumulate as many picks as you can and take as many shots as you can. Hopefully a few pan out. If our scouts do their jobs well, we shouldn't have to blow anything up. There should be a constant influx of talent
I agree. I don't think I'm sold on Dave Morrison and company's ability to evaluate talent at all, or Burke's distribution of North America/Europe picks. The last four years, it seems like there's been a crap ton of not so smart moves made by that staff:

-Brad Ross. Why did we trade a bigger body prospect in Jimmy Hayes for a small guy who doesn't seem to have any game at all unless someone was seriously going to bat for him? Pointless, unproductive trade.

-Not a lot of value coming out of the CHL: McKegg, Blacker, Ryan, Devane, Olden, Carrick just seem like throwaway picks who are having problems making an impact at the AHL let alone ever becoming decent NHLers.

-Thommie Bergman: seems to be under-utilized. I feel like he should be going to bat more for those Silfverberg, Tatar, Jarnkrok, Aberg, Collberg, Lehner, Dansk type prospects with high upside in the second and third rounds to upgrade the talent in the system. Those kinds of picks justify moving up like we did with the Brad Ross pick. I get the sense that his voice wasn't quite as well respected under the Burke regime.

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01-28-2013, 12:00 PM
  #498
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I feel we are at the same stage the Bruins were when they traded Thornton...their only star player and hit the reset button.

After that they drafted Lucic, Kessel, saw Bergeron and Krejci rise from the depth charts, signed Chara etc.

This team needs to do something similar.

I just don't know how the Leafs can really say that the core they have is enough to win the Cup.
We need a staff that can get those Lucic, Marchand type picks but I don't think Dave Morrison has proven very capable of that since 2008. We've had so many horrible drafts in the mid rounds lately, I feel like we were in better hands with Barry Trapp.

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01-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #499
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We need a staff that can get those Lucic, Marchand type picks but I don't think Dave Morrison has proven very capable of that since 2008. We've had so many horrible drafts in the mid rounds lately, I feel like we were in better hands with Barry Trapp.
Expecting the Leafs to draft good in the later rounds is like a dream to me at the moment.

I'm just glad they picked right with their top pick: Morgan Rielly.

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01-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #500
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Exactly. People are getting too attached to a team that has provided nothing but failures.

I don't get why people don't understand that this is a bottom feeding team. It might become slightly better if Luongo was in net, but it doesn't make us a contender.

The assets Phaneuf and Kessel could get us would put us in the right direction to compete in two to three years.

Meanwhile we would still have exciting players on the roster, all while we have a chance to draft guys like Jones, MacKinnon, Ekblad etc.

Nobody on this team is untouchable to me. Nobody. Everyone on this team can be traded for the right price.
phanauf to philly for coutiure, big center
get o rielly + from colorado for kessel
kulimun to pitts for bennett +
grabo to was. for forsberg

sign perry and getzlaf in the summer.
things can turn around in a year, we get young hungry players.

draft top 3 , any player will be ready to play next year.

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