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The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:19 PM
  #576
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That's a high priority for Morrison, he likes character guys.

He got this one right.

One can say da Proof is in the pudding.
He can like character guys all he wants, the key is to find guys who can also play hockey, and judging by the Leafs inability to promote guys like Ross and continual reliance on those mediocre NHLers like the ones we have on the roster says something about the quality of draftee the staff is able to come up with.

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01-28-2013, 06:21 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Here's a tidbit for you guys, in the 06 draft, Morrison wanted Bryan Little badly, we almost got him, but he was picked 1 pick before us. Mo was apparently crushed.
Probably would have looked better for Dave Morrison if he had pushed for Claude Giroux instead of Jiri Tlusty. Bryan Little isn't even that amazing of a player, he scored 6 more points than Tlusty last year.

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01-28-2013, 06:25 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Probably would have looked better for Dave Morrison if he had pushed for Claude Giroux instead of Jiri Tlusty. Bryan Little isn't even that amazing of a player, he scored 6 more points than Tlusty last year.
I think we don't really draft many players from the Q. A lot of teams passed on Claude Giroux...

Trevor Timmins passed on him too and drafted Fischer? He was playing right under their nose and missed him.

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01-28-2013, 06:29 PM
  #579
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Never happened.

None of those players are available.

At the deadline the Leafs have $29,049,703 cap space, and have $16,334,167 available space for next year.

You even use trades which means salary out salary in.

There is no cap space issue.
All of those players are pending UFAs.

There is no cap space issue this season but there isn't much cap space for next season.

That $16,334,167 available in cap space for next year doesn't include giving guys like Kadri, Gunnarson raises or reinking guys like Bozak. After you fill out your roster we don't have much cap space.

Grabo could bring in good assets at the deadline. In the off-season I actually think we'd have trouble getting much of anything for him as a lot of teams are already close to the cap or their internal budget.

Grabo is overpaid and not what this team needs. Is he a number center, nope. Is he big, nope. Is he physical, well he does get hit a lot but that tends to happen when you skate around with your head down. Is he great defensively, he is average for a 2nd liner.

This team has to many non-physical imposing permiteter forwards as our core beyond this season.

Time to start changing that which means somebody has to go with CMac, Bozak and Grabo right at the top of that list.

Then we can build around Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Kadri and potentially Kulemin for our big minute forwards. As well as have lots of cap space in a league where many teams will be looking to shed salary.

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01-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #580
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Mike Ulmer on Why the Leafs shouldn’t be afraid to risk their 1st rounder

http://blog.mapleleafs.com/fortune-f...first-rounder/

"...what if the Leafs bottom out and give up a shot at Nathan MacKinnon or a Seth Jones or Jonathan Drouin.

Those three are excellent players, maybe even potential franchise players. Potential. But Subban is a charismatic star and O’Reilly, while a little slow-footed has all the requisite playmaking, penalty killing and leadership to play on your first line. They are among the NHL’s best young players and while the other two seem sure to be, the Leafs should be ready to deploy their assets for more immediate results…like making the playoffs."

Let's make this a calm discussion guys. What do you think?

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01-28-2013, 06:43 PM
  #581
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^^ Subban just signed? He was never going to get traded.

I am sorry but ROR is not even close to being worth the Leafs 1st round pick.

If there is one thing the Leafs have learned in the last 4 years of pain and frustration, I hope it's this:

NEVER trade your first round pick if you are not 100% positive that your team is a playoff team.

When you trade your picks you lose out on Scott Niedermayer, Luongo, Seguin, Hamilton, a chance to draft in the 2003 draft.

We traded our 2003 pick...the deepest draft in recent memory and we had no first round pick. That pick was eventually Mark Stuart but who knows? Leafs could have had Corey Perry, Kesler, Bergeron, Weber etc.

We traded a 4th overall to re-acquire Wendel Clark...that one ended up to be Luongo.

If you reverse half the mistakes this organization has made, we're a Cup contender right now.


Last edited by Pi: 01-28-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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01-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #582
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That pick goes nowhere. Sorry Ulmer.

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Old
01-28-2013, 06:56 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
That pick goes nowhere. Sorry Ulmer.
If we are going to play terrible this year, I really hope Scrivens is net once we're officially eliminated.

Reimer looks much better in net than Scrivens.

Our schedule to end the year could be great if the Leafs somehow win a lot of games and are in a playoff race.

If we're not in the playoff race...those last 6 games could kill our tank . I could see the Leafs ending on a 6 game winning streak.

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01-28-2013, 06:57 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
That pick goes nowhere. Sorry Ulmer.
I hope so. I just don't like it that someone so close to the leafs organization is thinking this way, let alone having this article on the leafs website. It's like broadcasting to everyone that we haven't learned our lesson.

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01-28-2013, 07:01 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I hope so. I just don't like it that someone so close to the leafs organization is thinking this way, let alone having this article on the leafs website. It's like broadcasting to everyone that we haven't learned our lesson.
Well he's just a blogger...so it doesn't matter much.

I like some of his articles but trading the first round pick is just not an option unless we're getting a proven #1C.

I'd trade the 1st+ if Tavares were somehow available. Then I don't care if that pick is first overall.

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01-28-2013, 07:08 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
http://blog.mapleleafs.com/fortune-f...first-rounder/

"...what if the Leafs bottom out and give up a shot at Nathan MacKinnon or a Seth Jones or Jonathan Drouin.

Those three are excellent players, maybe even potential franchise players. Potential. But Subban is a charismatic star and O’Reilly, while a little slow-footed has all the requisite playmaking, penalty killing and leadership to play on your first line. They are among the NHL’s best young players and while the other two seem sure to be, the Leafs should be ready to deploy their assets for more immediate results…like making the playoffs."

Let's make this a calm discussion guys. What do you think?
The topic of the first rounder is sensitive to Leafs fans, so why not stir up a bit of nonsense?

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01-28-2013, 07:14 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Probably would have looked better for Dave Morrison if he had pushed for Claude Giroux instead of Jiri Tlusty. Bryan Little isn't even that amazing of a player, he scored 6 more points than Tlusty last year.
The ultimate magical crystal ball post, 21 other GM's and scouts probably would have looked better in retrospect.

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01-28-2013, 07:22 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
He can like character guys all he wants, the key is to find guys who can also play hockey, and judging by the Leafs inability to promote guys like Ross and continual reliance on those mediocre NHLers like the ones we have on the roster says something about the quality of draftee the staff is able to come up with.
Only Half correct, if only they could clone Alex Kovalev and Tom Fitzgerald.

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01-28-2013, 07:32 PM
  #589
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Further to this point, remember a kid named Mikhail Stefanovich?

Leafs drafted him in 2008, big talent, 10 cent heart. Talent is not enough, you also need character.

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01-28-2013, 07:39 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Further to this point, remember a kid named Mikhail Stefanovich?

Leafs drafted him in 2008, big talent, 10 cent heart. Talent is not enough, you also need character.
I like your posts but you only find Russian examples of guys with no heart.

There are plenty of players we've drafted that have had talent but no determination.

I think character is a wrong word to use, I'd use determination and drive.

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01-28-2013, 07:43 PM
  #591
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Is Ulmer turning into one of those guys who posts something they know will get the fanbase riled up just to get hits and comments on his articles? It's a remarkably stupid idea he's proposing. You do not trade your first round pick midseason. Maybe you can have that kind of flexibility when you are a Cup Contender, but the Leafs aren't even a playoff team.

Keep it, draft, and see what happens.

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01-28-2013, 08:13 PM
  #592
charliolemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I think we don't really draft many players from the Q. A lot of teams passed on Claude Giroux...

Trevor Timmins passed on him too and drafted Fischer? He was playing right under their nose and missed him.
The Q has a reputation of inflated stats. Not much defense and a lack of toughness.

Not saying it's true but just a reputation the league has.

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01-30-2013, 06:29 AM
  #593
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Think last night was a great example of what drafting well, developing, and finally promoting can do for a franchise.

Frattin and Kadri leading Toronto in scoring 6 games into the season.

Both Morrison picks. Starting to bear fruit for the big club.

Resist trading our picks, let the man do his job, and we will see the results.

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01-30-2013, 07:46 AM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I like your posts but you only find Russian examples of guys with no heart.

There are plenty of players we've drafted that have had talent but no determination.

I think character is a wrong word to use, I'd use determination and drive.
Stefano is not Russian, wake the fk up.

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01-30-2013, 08:08 AM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
For the record:

Jonathan Drouin 5'11 176lbs
Nathan Mackinnon 5'11 179lbs

/Spin away
I have to tell you this tandem has me worried a little bit.

This very well could be the Ray Whitney, Pat Falloon thing all over again.

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01-30-2013, 08:09 AM
  #596
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Hopefully we can get Sean Monahan.

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01-30-2013, 08:15 AM
  #597
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Imagine if they had simply thrown in the towel in 2008 and walked away with Steven Stamkos and had the good sense to lay low for the Tavares draft? That would have been the kind of long term thinking that would have at least given us one or two pillars to build with instead of what we have now. And imagine if Burke had the foresight to actually offer the Sedins a major cap circumvention deal and still made the Kessel deal?

We'd be looking at a roster with Sedin-Sedin-Stamkos-Tavares-Kessel.
Look, i hate BB as much as the next guy BUT,IIRC the twins never made it to UFA, did they?

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01-30-2013, 08:17 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
HockeyCentral is actually making a lot of sense today.

I'm asking myself the same thing:

How the heck are the Leafs in this situation 4 years into a rebuild? It really sucks that the Leafs are still aiming for the 8th spot and besides Kessel we've got zero game breakers.

I'm all ready for to push the reset button, take another 2-3 years and draft top 3-5 for 2 years.

I hate when people say: The Leafs are the 2nd youngest team. I'd take the rosters of at least 15 teams that are older than us if given a chance.

I'd rather be a team like the Oilers right now.

They've got Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov etc...the hard part is all but done for them. Now all they need to do is round out the team.
Sorry, but this team has been in Re-tool mode for longer than 4 years, it started with the silver fox and the frozen 5.

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01-30-2013, 08:17 AM
  #599
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Best thing for the Leafs would be for Reimer, Gardiner, Kadri, Frattin, Franson, Komarov, and JVR, to all make improvements over the course of the year and for the Leafs to draft a blue-chip forward.

If our young players have played well and we still end up with Mackinnon, Jones, or Barkov - then great!

But if our youth plays well and as a result the team is drafting in the Monahan, Shinkaruk range, then it is possible that isn't the end of the world.

I'd rather know that we have half a dozen young players that can make a difference in this league than find out this year that all of our youth is inept and end up with the top pick...

I would definitely be open to trading veterans as the deadline nears...

Games like the win over buffalo are great signs that there is room for internal growth...

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:18 AM
  #600
Faltorvo
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You might be surprised to hear this but as far back as 2007 people were calling for a draft-oriented rebuild.

Pretty funny that all along the way those people (including me sometimes) were insulted and flamed.

Now look at us.
Been a die-hard "tanker" since the silver fox took over, i have the million burn marks to show for it.

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