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The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

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Old
02-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Good post! It's funny some of the Marlies we promote play better than guys we had on the roster last year. Connolly, Lombardi, Schenn, ect...

We need to keep drafting and developing, no quick fixes, if we are lucky maybe we can get a Chara UFA to sign with us by clearing the deck as Boston did with Thornton, Kessel, Murray, Raycroft, ect...

Strategic transformation they call it in Organizations, Apple did it years ago, and they reap the rewards. Tough decisions have to be made by the deadline, sell or more of the same? I say sell and less of what we have seen the past 5+ years.



Yep, some of us are getting it, enough of a half azzed rebuild, build it right and Leafs fans will be happy.
A lot of guys that were in the A last year are playing better than guys that were in the NHL. I hope it isn't just the advantage of having played through the lockout.

That being said, you will never hear me complain about playing the kids, I just hope LN is patient with them ( we never are) and understand that not every one of them is gonna be Crosby or Doughty-esque. That does not make them useless.

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02-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
A lot of guys that were in the A last year are playing better than guys that were in the NHL. I hope it isn't just the advantage of having played through the lockout.

That being said, you will never hear me complain about playing the kids, I just hope LN is patient with them ( we never are) and understand that not every one of them is gonna be Crosby or Doughty-esque. That does not make them useless.
Ross is already getting more ice time with the Marlies since the Leafs made call ups, Devane got into a tilt last night, we know he can do this, but I hope he gets a chance to PK for Eakins.

Mckegg has surprised me, didn't think he was much, but he has a shot in the NHL or at least as a chip in a trade.

Next year is a big year of development, Percy, Leivo, and Biggs all make the jump. The pieces are coming together as long as we don't do what we have been guilty of in the past, promote without developing or trading our prospects for quick fixes.


Model a model that has worked, ie. Boston.

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02-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Ross is already getting more ice time with the Marlies since the Leafs made call ups, Devane got into a tilt last night, we know he can do this, but I hope he gets a chance to PK for Eakins.

Mckegg has surprised me, didn't think he was much, but he has a shot in the NHL or at least as a chip in a trade.

Next year is a big year of development, Percy, Leivo, and Biggs all make the jump. The pieces are coming together as long as we don't do what we have been guilty of in the past, promote without developing or trading our prospects for quick fixes.


Model a model that has worked, ie. Boston.
Agreed. Hopefully we see some of the vets move on next season, and a couple more of the young guys step up. I'd like to see if guys like Holzer can play with the big boys. Kostka hasn't been terrible, but he has no business being with our best dman.

Also, next year Biggs with the Marlies.... Can't wait...

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02-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
That being said, you will never hear me complain about playing the kids, I just hope LN is patient with them ( we never are) and understand that not every one of them is gonna be Crosby or Doughty-esque. That does not make them useless.
I agree with you in principle, but the problem with the Leafs is basically that they don't have a Crosby or Doughty-esque player to put all the other good things they do into a framework that will deliver a consistent winning team.

We can keep developing guys like Jesse Blacker or Joe Colborne, and I'm not trying to disparage them, but if they turn out to be no better than someone on the existing roster, the team hasn't gained any improvement from promoting them.

Chicago did a great job amassing young players like Ladd, Byfuglien, Seabrook, Versteeg in their rebuilding program back in the mid 2000s, but they also needed a Toews, Kane and Keith to really cement things.

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02-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Good post! It's funny some of the Marlies we promote play better than guys we had on the roster last year. Connolly, Lombardi, Schenn, ect...

We need to keep drafting and developing, no quick fixes, if we are lucky maybe we can get a Chara UFA to sign with us by clearing the deck as Boston did with Thornton, Kessel, Murray, Raycroft, ect...

Strategic transformation they call it in Organizations, Apple did it years ago, and they reap the rewards. Tough decisions have to be made by the deadline, sell or more of the same? I say sell and less of what we have seen the past 5+ years.



Yep, some of us are getting it, enough of a half azzed rebuild, build it right and Leafs fans will be happy.
I love you, No homo. Let's blow it up and properly rebuild this time

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02-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #631
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I agree with you in principle, but the problem with the Leafs is basically that they don't have a Crosby or Doughty-esque player to put all the other good things they do into a framework that will deliver a consistent winning team.

We can keep developing guys like Jesse Blacker or Joe Colborne, and I'm not trying to disparage them, but if they turn out to be no better than someone on the existing roster, the team hasn't gained any improvement from promoting them.

Chicago did a great job amassing young players like Ladd, Byfuglien, Seabrook, Versteeg in their rebuilding program back in the mid 2000s, but they also needed a Toews, Kane and Keith to really cement things.
I think for now we'll need to add those top guys via free agency. Like I said, if we can grab the top 2-3 guys this summer (like what Minny did last summer) then they can be our Toews, Kane, etc.

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02-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I agree with you in principle, but the problem with the Leafs is basically that they don't have a Crosby or Doughty-esque player to put all the other good things they do into a framework that will deliver a consistent winning team.

We can keep developing guys like Jesse Blacker or Joe Colborne, and I'm not trying to disparage them, but if they turn out to be no better than someone on the existing roster, the team hasn't gained any improvement from promoting them.

Chicago did a great job amassing young players like Ladd, Byfuglien, Seabrook, Versteeg in their rebuilding program back in the mid 2000s, but they also needed a Toews, Kane and Keith to really cement things.
Not many teams do. How many Crosbys are in the NHL?

We can't even appreciate what we do have. How many teams have a Kessel? How many that do have a large portion of the fan base trying to offload him?

We have some amazing talent in Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly, JVR and some solid secondary talent in Frattin, Biggs, Percy, Finn... We just have to let them develop instead of constantly throwing them under the bus when they aren't instant superstars.

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02-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
I think for now we'll need to add those top guys via free agency. Like I said, if we can grab the top 2-3 guys this summer (like what Minny did last summer) then they can be our Toews, Kane, etc.
Some would argue that those top two guys are all Minny really has. Well see where it gets them.

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02-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #634
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With a draft crop like this years, rebuilding makes even more sense. Guys like MacKinnon, Jones, barkov, Monahan, Lindholm, all have a potential to be future stars and franchise players.

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02-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #635
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With a draft crop like this years, rebuilding makes even more sense. Guys like _____, ____, ____, _____, all have a potential to be future stars and franchise players.
Said everyone every single year.

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02-03-2013, 12:55 PM
  #636
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Said everyone every single year.
So true, however this is potentially a very deep year.

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02-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #637
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Said everyone every single year.
Regardless of whether you think its a deep draft or not, theres potentially 4 incredibly skilled centermen who can be taken in the top 5. Something the leafs desperately need.

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02-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
I think for now we'll need to add those top guys via free agency. Like I said, if we can grab the top 2-3 guys this summer (like what Minny did last summer) then they can be our Toews, Kane, etc.
When Burke came here I thought we'd be slowly rebuilding the farm (as we have) while adding UFA stars to carry the load. I was pretty shocked at the way he had no interest in paying top dollar for guys like Gaborik and Kovalchuk, two players who have joined teams that went on to have quite a bit of success.

The way the past few years have worked out, I don't see Toronto being much of a player on the UFA stage unless we turn things around on our own first, at which point the UFA stars will want to consider joining the bandwagon.

Most realistically, I see our chance at nabbing a Kane or Toews style young star is if we trade Kessel for a guy who hasn't broken out yet (for example a Ryan Johansen) or if we somehow draft one.

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02-03-2013, 01:26 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Not many teams do. How many Crosbys are in the NHL?

We can't even appreciate what we do have. How many teams have a Kessel? How many that do have a large portion of the fan base trying to offload him?

We have some amazing talent in Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly, JVR and some solid secondary talent in Frattin, Biggs, Percy, Finn... We just have to let them develop instead of constantly throwing them under the bus when they aren't instant superstars.
Not many, but those teams that have superstars (like when we had Mats) in a critical position like C are going to have the foundation for success more so than teams with a bunch of pretty good pieces like we do.

I really like Kessel, and while I don't think he's the "face of a franchise" classic best player, I think the Leafs need to a) close the gap between Kessel and the next best player or b) more ideally, get a player who's a little better than Kessel.

I think Kadri, Gardiner and JVR can eventually deliver on the former, and Rielly could deliver the latter, but point remains, we need more elite talent.

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02-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #640
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I might have an interest in taking a shot at a Perry or Getz at the TD if they are on the market.

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02-03-2013, 01:43 PM
  #641
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I might have an interest in taking a shot at a Perry or Getz at the TD if they are on the market.
Who would we give up to get them

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02-03-2013, 01:49 PM
  #642
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We just have to make sure we are getting one of Perry/Getzlaf. Even if it takes 9.5M and means we have to trade Grabo, buy out Liles/Komisarek etc.

I'd rather have an overpaid elite center or winger than paying guys like Grabovski 5.5M, Komisarek 4.5M, Liles 3.8M..

Corey Perry would do wonders on a line with Kessel. The reason Kessel struggles is because nobody else on his line really needs to be given special attention to. Defend Kessel well and that line has no offense at all.

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02-03-2013, 01:50 PM
  #643
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I would like a high pick as much as anyone; but they are closer to a playoff team this year than last place.

Their next few games:

25th Place - Carolina
28th Place - Washington
22nd Place - Winnipeg
8th Place - Montreal (which the Leafs tend to own)
27th Place - Philadelphia

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02-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #644
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Who would we give up to get them
The standard comp for that level tends to run , 1rst round pick- good but not blue chip prospect and a serviceable NHL player like a Franson/Mac type.

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02-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #645
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I would like a high pick as much as anyone; but they are closer to a playoff team this year than last place.

Their next few games:

25th Place - Carolina
28th Place - Washington
22nd Place - Winnipeg
8th Place - Montreal (which the Leafs tend to own)
27th Place - Philadelphia
It is not a good thing if the Leafs finish outside of the playoffs and the Flyers and Caps pick top 5.

We need elite players a lot more than they do.

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02-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #646
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The standard comp for that level tends to run , 1rst round pick- good but not blue chip prospect and a serviceable NHL player like a Franson/Mac type.
Yep. If one of Getz/Perry have no intention to sign then Leafs could offer some of our prospects, roster players to get a deal done.

This is what Kovalchuk returned:

Traded from Atlanta Thrashers with Anssi Salmela and round 2 pick in the 2010 draft (Jon Merrill) to New Jersey Devils for Johnny Oduya, Nicklas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier, round 1 pick in the 2010 draft (Kevin Hayes) and round 2 pick in the 2010 draft (Justin Holl)

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02-03-2013, 01:55 PM
  #647
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We just have to make sure we are getting one of Perry/Getzlaf. Even if it takes 9.5M and means we have to trade Grabo, buy out Liles/Komisarek etc.

I'd rather have an overpaid elite center or winger than paying guys like Grabovski 5.5M, Komisarek 4.5M, Liles 3.8M..

Corey Perry would do wonders on a line with Kessel. The reason Kessel struggles is because nobody else on his line really needs to be given special attention to. Defend Kessel well and that line has no offense at all.
See, i would handle that differently.

I'd have Kessel as my #2 RW with Lups on his left.

Try JVR as #1 lw with Perry.

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02-03-2013, 01:57 PM
  #648
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Said everyone every single year.
2 17yr olds made team Canada and Jones was close to the Best D-man for the USA. So ya I would say this is a good draft year.

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02-03-2013, 02:00 PM
  #649
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2 17yr olds made team Canada and Jones was close to the Best D-man for the USA. So ya I would say this is a good draft year.
In a lockout year as well.

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02-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #650
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Montreals Galyenchuk is good. Making me jealous. Im glad Kadri has been working out for us as of late but we need to draft more forwards or trade for some better forward prospects rather than Colborne and Ashton.

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