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The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:41 AM
  #201
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Minnesota will not give out another crazy long term deal after the insane retirement contracts they gave to Parise/Suter. Just because Healey's deal will run out, does that mean they need to replace him? No.

They didn't even have the money to cover the crazy signing bonuses they gave out.

And on top of that, Phil will have to agree to take a paycut to go there compared to what the Leafs can offer.
What the leafs can offer or will offer?

"Another crazy long term deal"?

Is that what the leafs are going to have to do, to keep Phil Kessel?

Minny can easily afford to offer Phil 7.5m cap full term, cap wise.

Heatly could be traded or compliance or just used out 1 more year or resigned at a more fitting rate.

It's a sad day for the NHL and new CBA if a team like Minny and the way their fans support them, could not afford to spend to the new reduced cap, no?

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01-27-2013, 11:45 AM
  #202
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Who gives a **** where we trade them ... we just gotta trade them - its blatantly obvious this isn't working - I dont' want to waste time trying to find players that we can insulate Dion/Phil with to mask their ineffeciencies. Lets just go try and find some players that are affordable and can contribute tot he only Stat that matters - The Win/Loss Column.

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01-27-2013, 11:46 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Wendelstache View Post
Kessel + Kadri + Phaneuf to Pittsburg for Malkin.

Kulie - Malkin - JVR
Lupul - Grabo - Frattin
Leo - Bozak - McA
Orr - Mclement - Brown
You really think Pitts does that?

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:47 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
1. Trade Kessel to Minny for Coyle ( big #2C prospect ready now and has the tools we need as a big nasty centre ) + Dumba ( a premier physical D prospect ) + 1st 2013

Minny does this because there close and Kessel might make them the Fav...

2. Kulemen to Pittsburg for Beau Bennett

3. Phaneuf to Washington for Forsberg & 1st

4. McCarthur for 2nd

Draft

we will be top 5 and get our # 1 C & package 2 firsts to get another top 10 pick to get another winger like Kessel


You're presupposing those teams will make those trades.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:50 AM
  #205
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Whereas...

Quote:
Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
Toronto's inferiority complex in full display right here
Our superiority is evident on the ice.Boston sends its thanks for those 2 building blocks.How are Burke's 2 major building blocks doing?

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01-27-2013, 11:51 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
1. Trade Kessel to Minny for Coyle ( big #2C prospect ready now and has the tools we need as a big nasty centre ) + Dumba ( a premier physical D prospect ) + 1st 2013

Minny does this because there close and Kessel might make them the Fav...

2. Kulemen to Pittsburg for Beau Bennett

3. Phaneuf to Washington for Forsberg & 1st

4. McCarthur for 2nd

Draft

we will be top 5 and get our # 1 C & package 2 firsts to get another top 10 pick to get another winger like Kessel
If it were only so easy. I don't do the Kulemin trade, but have no issues with the others. Of course doubt we would get that much back for Kessel or Phaneuf. I really like the Phaneuf trade though, with Washington being dead last right now, that would be a great first round pick. LOL

Sadly, real life is a video game though.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:53 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
Toronto's inferiority complex in full display right here
I'm a bit puzzled by how he is showing a Toronto inferiority complex? Other fans across the league say we Leafs fans show the opposite without any reason to be.

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01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
Fans saying we need to blow it up are just as bad as fans saying we are fine just the way we are

it is a process, you don't ever stay completely the same nor do you just blow everything up and hope for different results. You put players that you have faith in on the ice while building depth in your organization. You assess what you need and who you can give up while working within the framework of the CBA. There are always opportunities to make moves and improve, all you need is common sense, patience, good judgement, and cap space. For the first time since in the cap world we can finally say we have this... it took 7 years to get to this point, but we're here.

You say the core needs to be changed... I say the core isn't complete and needs to be added to. I say we need more experience. I say this team isn't built yet, and this season is right along the lines of what we should have expected this season. At this point we don't expect different results, we just expect there to be some improvement.

Everyone just loves to come out and say "I told you so" like you made some amazing prediction. The fuc*ing GM pretty much came out and said we don't expect to win this year, it's a long term thing.

In the salary cup era, you only have a certain % of money to put players in the core category. Allocating money to quality players is a key to good teams.

Ours core players are paid:

Grabo 5.5M
Dion 6.5M
Kessel 5.4M
Lupul 5.25M
Komi 4.5M

Compare this to Boston last year

Chara 6.9M
Krejci 5.25M
Bergeron 5M
Thomas 5M
Lucic 4.1M


The comparison is telling, this core is a disappointment to what they are paid when you compare them to the better teams in the NHL. This is where we are going to have to subtract and hopefully add to this deadline or summer if we want to get better, 3rd and 4th lines don't win championships. Core players do, this core has been a continual failure, so what is happening this season should not be a surprise. RC's improved coaching may keep us from a top 2 pick, but it won't keep us from not making a top 5-10 pick.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:57 AM
  #209
Erdinger
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
RC's improved coaching may keep us from a top 2 pick, but it won't keep us from not making a top 5-10 pick.
Fire Carlyle

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:58 AM
  #210
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Oh I know its not by choice.

I'm just saying, it's amazing how drafting 1 ready to play C can make a big difference. All of a sudden youre looking at Kadri Bozak Grabovski Draftee McClement. Right now, if one guy gets injured, its a totally different story than having say Barkov, MacKinnon Monahan or Lindholm in the mix

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01-27-2013, 11:58 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
In the salary cup era, you only have a certain % of money to put players in the core category. Allocating money to quality players is a key to good teams.

Ours core players are paid:

Grabo 5.5M
Dion 6.5M
Kessel 5.4M
Lupul 5.25M
Komi 4.5M

Compare this to Boston last year

Chara 6.9M
Krejci 5.25M
Bergeron 5M
Thomas 5M
Lucic 4.1M


The comparison is telling, this core is a disappointment to what they are paid when you compare them to the better teams in the NHL. This is where we are going to have to subtract and hopefully add to this deadline or summer if we want to get better, 3rd and 4th lines don't win championships. Core players do, this core has been a continual failure, so what is happening this season should not be a surprise. RC's improved coaching may keep us from a top 2 pick, but it won't keep us from not making a top 5-10 pick.

In other words they have far superior players - that make on average less money. And Toronto fans wonder why they can't win a hockey game lol

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:04 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
He's gonna be a hell of a player. We missed on a good one, but at least it wasn't by choice
But didn't Burke say they would have taken Rielly even if they had the first overall pick? Or was he talking out of his ass?

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01-27-2013, 12:06 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
Fire Carlyle
Leafs don't tank, didn't you get the memo. Where's Eddie O when you need him?

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:08 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
But didn't Burke say they would have taken Rielly even if they had the first overall pick? Or was he talking out of his ass?
Ass talking

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01-27-2013, 12:11 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
But didn't Burke say they would have taken Rielly even if they had the first overall pick? Or was he talking out of his ass?
I'll put my money on Rielly over Gally. Burke made some dumb moves but this is one he got right.

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01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
that would be nice

perhaps a tad too much salary
MMMMM, well i guess it's relative to what you spend on your 3rd/4th lines and 5,6,7 D and back up tender. All we need to do is stop paying guys in that range the wrong kinds $.

For instance lets just spit ball here for a sec, we bring in Getz and Perry both at 8m cap hits.

Thats 16m , move out Komi(compliance) and Grabo(trade, for picks,prospects) cap hits, thats 10m , so far we have added 6m cap and Connollys 4.75 and Lombardi 1.5m is off the books=6.25m, making it a relative cap push. Macs 3.25m leaves and the clouds part.

Kessel is at 5.4m right now and Dion is at 6.5m , they are both due in the same year.

So what you take from Dion(5.5m instead of 6.5m) and the 2m from Army/Tucker buy outs(1+1+1=3.0m), you add to Phil(5.4 to 7.5= 2.1m needed) and that turns into a relative cap push.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'll put my money on Rielly over Gally. Burke made some dumb moves but this is one he got right.
I'm not knocking the choice of Rielly at all. Just pointing out that Burke didn't seem interested in Galchenyuk even if he had been available.

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01-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #218
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On the block.

Kessel,Phaneuff,MacA,Grabo,Komi,Liles.We finish bottom 5 to 10 and trade up.Time to undo Burke's mess.He trojan horsed this franchise.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
The rangers were able to put redden in the minors, something that's not allowed any more. They also ripped the **** out of MTL when dumping gomez. Also, the only player that they signed and that I consider to be a superstar is Gaborik. He didn't get one of those long-term deals either. Brad Richards is a great player, but he's no superstar.

wanna give these guys 10 year contracts? imagine if we gave kaberle a 10 year deal 10 years ago thinking that since he's a top dman and that we should keep him for as long as possible. He would still be playing on our team for 4-5 mil and nobody would want him.

trust me, all these guys signed to long-term deals are going to have negative value in a few years. you guys just dont see it yet because you're too focused on the short term.

Anything longer than a 6-7 year deal is ridiculous unless you're signing a top 5 player... and no Kovalchuk is not a top 5 player.
Wait, you say 6/7 years is ok length but it's only going to be a "few" years before the league starts to see the issues from the retirement contracts already signed? Whats a few years? and who are these players of concern?

How odd is it that we could have compliance bought out Kabber a few times if that had become a reality the 10 years, 10 years ago thingy.

What do you think will happen in 8 years if so many of these retirement contracts screw up too many teams?

Do you think the majority of owners won't be reviewing that issue when the CBA can be reopened in 8 years?

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:30 PM
  #220
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You do realize there are now rules in place to punish those contracts and the devils will now be paying him until his contract ends no matter when he retires?
You do realize that NJ has the option to get rid of this contract over the next 2 years, right?

You think NJ ownership cares what "might happen" in 8 years after they just went to the SCFs?

You don't think in 8 years NJ might have another set of options to "fix" the Kova issue if it becomes a rampant issue in the league?

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01-27-2013, 12:34 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
MMMMM, well i guess it's relative to what you spend on your 3rd/4th lines and 5,6,7 D and back up tender. All we need to do is stop paying guys in that range the wrong kinds $.

For instance lets just spit ball here for a sec, we bring in Getz and Perry both at 8m cap hits.

Thats 16m , move out Komi(compliance) and Grabo(trade, for picks,prospects) cap hits, thats 10m , so far we have added 6m cap and Connollys 4.75 and Lombardi 1.5m is off the books=6.25m, making it a relative cap push. Macs 3.25m leaves and the clouds part.

Kessel is at 5.4m right now and Dion is at 6.5m , they are both due in the same year.

So what you take from Dion(5.5m instead of 6.5m) and the 2m from Army/Tucker buy outs(1+1+1=3.0m), you add to Phil(5.4 to 7.5= 2.1m needed) and that turns into a relative cap push.
but what happens when the next group wants a raise?
gardiner kadri jvr etc.....

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01-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #222
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Nope.

We've seen this team play good hockey, but not consistently. It's very different from the type of success we had at times last season.

We'll be fine. There are some growing pains, and balance has to be found playing in a more defensive system. It's coming.

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01-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #223
LEAFSIN4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
In the salary cup era, you only have a certain % of money to put players in the core category. Allocating money to quality players is a key to good teams.

Ours core players are paid:

Grabo 5.5M
Dion 6.5M
Kessel 5.4M
Lupul 5.25M
Komi 4.5M

Compare this to Boston last year

Chara 6.9M
Krejci 5.25M
Bergeron 5M
Thomas 5M
Lucic 4.1M


The comparison is telling, this core is a disappointment to what they are paid when you compare them to the better teams in the NHL. This is where we are going to have to subtract and hopefully add to this deadline or summer if we want to get better, 3rd and 4th lines don't win championships. Core players do, this core has been a continual failure, so what is happening this season should not be a surprise. RC's improved coaching may keep us from a top 2 pick, but it won't keep us from not making a top 5-10 pick.
See this is the point I'm trying to make. Our core isn't set, and has not been for quite a while. The last 4 years under Burke have been a transition to a new team, and along the way we have acquired SOME core pieces. JFJ, Fletcher, and the Kessel trade set us back a few years... and now we have no choice but to fix those mistakes.

All I'm trying to say is that the core is not set, nor is anybody trying to playoff the illusion that it is set. Komi is likely to be bought out while Grabo and Lupul are the only 2 guys out of those 5 that we have signed beyond next year.

We are approaching a critical phase in this transition... after this offseason I'll have no problem with people critiquing the core if management decides to stay put.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
Nope.

We've seen this team play good hockey, but not consistently. It's very different from the type of success we had at times last season.

We'll be fine. There are some growing pains, and balance has to be found playing in a more defensive system. It's coming.
This should be stickied at the top of our board.

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01-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
Nope.

We've seen this team play good hockey, but not consistently. It's very different from the type of success we had at times last season.

We'll be fine. There are some growing pains, and balance has to be found playing in a more defensive system. It's coming.
ahahahah yup its coming ... don't hold your breathe

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