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Old
02-01-2013, 12:20 PM
  #326
McRanger
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Derek Stepan = modern day Sergei Nemchinov.
Are you old enough to remember how good Nemchinov was in his prime?

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02-01-2013, 12:20 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Well I would lean towards a team full of Crosby's if possible. Screw Eberle.
I don't think Crosby's defensive game is extraordinary, though. Maybe Crosby with 1999 Bobby Holik's defensive game and physical play. Also he should have Semin's release and Messier's accuracy.

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02-01-2013, 12:21 PM
  #328
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Not sure how Eberle came into this at all.

In regards to Stepan, from my perspective it is not a "what have you done for me lately" argument.

This isn't MDZ slumping where you know he's just in a funk. I see serious fundamental flaws in Stepan's game, to the point where I see very little room for improvement.

Yes, he has played with everyone in the lineup, but I'm willing to bet well over 50% of his assists have come from passing it to Gaborik. Marian may not be able to create his own offense, but he's incredibly opportunistic, and it doesn't take insane playmaking ability to benefit on the scoresheet from him.

I think the Rangers need to give him some homework. He needs to watch what made him successful in college; it's not a case of that stuff not working, it's a case of him not using the skills that make him the player he can be.

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02-01-2013, 12:23 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Are you old enough to remember how good Nemchinov was in his prime?
I am 31. Yes.

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02-01-2013, 12:23 PM
  #330
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I've never been a fan of Stepan. Kid brings nothing to the table offensively save for a wee ounce of playmaking ability. He's gotta be one of the worst skaters I've seen on this team and he has a putrid shot. At least he knows his shot is terrible though, because every time hes in a high percentage shooting area he passes which usually leads to a turnover. I'll gladly eat crow if Stepan miraculously is able to grind out points like he did last year but he's painful to watch. I also get that he's only 22 but I just don't see any legitimate skill set there to be 2C worthy. Compare to: Kreider. Great speed, above average shot, big body. Stepan has none of that.

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02-01-2013, 12:25 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Are you old enough to remember how good Nemchinov was in his prime?
First two years were great, and dropped off significantly after that, similar to how I see Stepan going.

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02-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
First two years were great, and dropped off significantly after that, similar to how I see Stepan going.
And you have decided Stepan is going to have a ****** rest of his career based on an injured post-season where he had ~.5ppg @ 21 years old and 7 games into a lockout shortened season? Seems totally acceptable logic.

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02-01-2013, 12:30 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
First two years were great, and dropped off significantly after that, similar to how I see Stepan going.
You understand that the first two years make up 96% of his career, right?

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02-01-2013, 12:31 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
And you have decided Stepan is going to have a ****** rest of his career based on an injured post-season where he had ~.5ppg @ 21 years old and 7 games into a lockout shortened season? Seems totally acceptable logic.
Do you watch him play? It seems to me, many on this board see the same things I do and have been watching him since he was inserted into the lineup a couple years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I've never been a fan of Stepan. Kid brings nothing to the table offensively save for a wee ounce of playmaking ability. He's gotta be one of the worst skaters I've seen on this team and he has a putrid shot. At least he knows his shot is terrible though, because every time hes in a high percentage shooting area he passes which usually leads to a turnover. I'll gladly eat crow if Stepan miraculously is able to grind out points like he did last year but he's painful to watch. I also get that he's only 22 but I just don't see any legitimate skill set there to be 2C worthy. Compare to: Kreider. Great speed, above average shot, big body. Stepan has none of that.
Reading quotes like that, is exactly what I see when I watch Stepan play, how do you not see any of that?

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02-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Do you watch him play? It seems to me, many on this board see the same things I do and have been watching him since he was inserted into the lineup a couple years ago.



Reading quotes like that, is exactly what I see when I watch Stepan play, how do you not see any of that?
Nope, I don't. Ever. Who is this Stephan guy?

I have been watching him since he was drafted. And I can tell you, you are incorrect in your evaluation of this talent. Plain and simple.

He has struggled to start the season. I won't argue that. The team around him has looked average at best to this point and (2) top-6 wingers are now out of the line-up.

Do you play a lot of NHL '13? Because comments like I would rather have Eberle make it seem that way. Of course you want Eberle over Stepan. Eberle is a blossoming #1 center. Eberle is PAID well too.

So you basically think it is a reasonable expectation for this team to have a second #1 center in the line-up?

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02-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
First two years were great, and dropped off significantly after that, similar to how I see Stepan going.
He was entering into his 30s by then. If we can get the kind of two-way play out of Stepan that the early 90s Rangers got from Nemchinov, I will be thrilled.

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02-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #337
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Again, its easier to gripe about a player than address the team's poor play.

I don't feel the need to defend Stepan because he needs no defending. His role with the team and success so far speak for themselves.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
And I can tell you, you are incorrect in your evaluation of this talent. Plain and simple.
I respectfully disagree with you man...time will tell I guess.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Nope, I don't. Ever. Who is this Stephan guy?

I have been watching him since he was drafted. And I can tell you, you are incorrect in your evaluation of this talent. Plain and simple.

He has struggled to start the season. I won't argue that. The team around him has looked average at best to this point and (2) top-6 wingers are now out of the line-up.

Do you play a lot of NHL '13? Because comments like I would rather have Eberle make it seem that way. Of course you want Eberle over Stepan. Eberle is a blossoming #1 center. Eberle is PAID well too.

So you basically think it is a reasonable expectation for this team to have a second #1 center in the line-up?
Since your opinion is clearly the only correct one, what are his talents exactly? I mean maybe my TV is broken but I haven't seen anywhere near enough flashes of talent from Stepan that says he should be a #2 center. If you're argument is stats based, please spare me.. this is the NHL not MLB

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:04 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Since your opinion is clearly the only correct one, what are his talents exactly? I mean maybe my TV is broken but I haven't seen anywhere near enough flashes of talent from Stepan that says he should be a #2 center. If you're argument is stats based, please spare me.. this is the NHL not MLB
Vision, hockey IQ, defensive play, leadership, passing.

He will always be a better passer than goal scorer. He will never be a fast player.

I have never stated he will be a superstar. I have never even stated he will be a 1st line. But being a 50 point player in your 2nd year in the league while getting a ton of PK and PP time means quite a bit.

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02-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I've never been a fan of Stepan. Kid brings nothing to the table offensively save for a wee ounce of playmaking ability. He's gotta be one of the worst skaters I've seen on this team and he has a putrid shot. At least he knows his shot is terrible though, because every time hes in a high percentage shooting area he passes which usually leads to a turnover. I'll gladly eat crow if Stepan miraculously is able to grind out points like he did last year but he's painful to watch. I also get that he's only 22 but I just don't see any legitimate skill set there to be 2C worthy. Compare to: Kreider. Great speed, above average shot, big body. Stepan has none of that.
For goodness sake...I can't stand this board after a few losses.

Stepan is a bad skater with a bad shot, I agree. But he has tremendous awareness in the offensive zone. Look, he's had a very bad start to the season. He might even have an entire season that's below his standards. But if you think he's a bad player, I don't know what to tell you.

The lack of patience on this board is infuriating...especially when we talk about young players. You realize that practically every single player who has ever played the game has had bad stretches, or a bad season?

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Stepan is a bad skater with a bad shot, I agree.
But he's in the NHL as a 2nd line center. Does anyone see a problem with this?

I expect that from a John Scott, not a Derek Stepan.

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02-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
But he's in the NHL as a 2nd line center. Does anyone see a problem with this?

I expect that from a John Scott, not a Derek Stepan.
Brad Richards is a pretty crappy skater too. Stepan brings a lot to the table aside from skating and shooting (when he's on his game, of course). He's a great playmaker, great stickhandler, surprisingly good at cycling the puck and protecting the puck along the boards.

His success the last two years was not a fluke. He doesn't need to be a great skater or shooter to be successful.



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02-01-2013, 01:22 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Vision, hockey IQ, defensive play, leadership, passing.

He will always be a better passer than goal scorer. He will never be a fast player.

I have never stated he will be a superstar. I have never even stated he will be a 1st line. But being a 50 point player in your 2nd year in the league while getting a ton of PK and PP time means quite a bit.
Textbook Definition of a 3C on a team with average to above average C depth. Don't know how you could argue leadership considering he doesn't wear a letter and presumably you're not in the room. Shoot.. Halpern and Asham could be great leaders in the room. We don't know whether they are or aren't. Either way it's moot because leadership doesn't put the puck in the net. This team has more than enough leaders, defensive players, guys who can jam. We need LEGITIMATE secondary scoring and Stepan does not provide that. We seem content to keep drafting Defenseman in the first round, so this is what you get.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:26 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Brad Richards is a pretty crappy skater too. Stepan brings a lot to the table aside from skating and shooting (when he's on his game, of course). He's a great playmaker, great stickhandler, surprisingly good at cycling the puck and protecting the puck along the boards.

His success the last two years was not a fluke. He doesn't need to be a great skater or shooter to be successful.


at that video. Probably one of the ugliest, end to end goals ive ever seen.

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02-01-2013, 01:31 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Textbook Definition of a 3C on a team with average to above average C depth. Don't know how you could argue leadership considering he doesn't wear a letter and presumably you're not in the room. Shoot.. Halpern and Asham could be great leaders in the room. We don't know whether they are or aren't. Either way it's moot because leadership doesn't put the puck in the net. This team has more than enough leaders, defensive players, guys who can jam. We need LEGITIMATE secondary scoring and Stepan does not provide that. We seem content to keep drafting Defenseman in the first round, so this is what you get.


3c's don't score 50 points on a team with "average C depth".

Wore a C @ the WJC.

The Rangers have enough defensive forwards? Callahan, Boyle, ? Who else? Hagelin? Stepan is the better defensive player positionally.

And again, I would call 51 points solid secondary scoring. But hey, if you want 60+ points from a second line there is always NHL 13.

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02-01-2013, 01:32 PM
  #347
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at that video. Probably one of the ugliest, end to end goals ive ever seen.
It's not the prettiest, but there are no points awarded for style.

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02-01-2013, 01:34 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
at that video. Probably one of the ugliest, end to end goals ive ever seen.
Hey you know what? A goal is a goal and you aren't awarded any extra points for style. If that's your thing, there's always the all star game.

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02-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #349
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If i was in a coma for a month and woke up, I could come here and figure out in a minute that the Rangers had just lost a game.

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02-01-2013, 01:39 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Textbook Definition of a 3C on a team with average to above average C depth.
In the 2011-2012 season, an "average" 3C (on points alone) was Martin Hanzal/Tyler Kennedy, with 33/34 points. I think a lot of people have massively inflated expectations of how many points average NHL forwards generally score.

Stepan was #31 in points for centers last year, in his sophomore season - which makes him (on points alone) a borderline 1st/2nd line center. I'd argue his very above-average defensive play and presence on the PK doesn't move him down that list any.

Stepan is a 3C on a team with massively unsustainable center depth (i.e. Pittsburgh last year with Crosby/Malkin/Staal) - one that will be moved sooner or later as you either can't afford to pay him, or he's unhappy with his position on the team.

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