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What do you think of Kosts so far?

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Old
03-07-2005, 08:20 PM
  #51
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz
Kostitsyn is doing fine. He's going through enormous changes in all aspects of life, not just hockey. He's gaining valuable experience and I, for one, like the way Jarvis is using him. Nobody mentions the fact that the kid only played a handful of games in the last 2 seasons. If Jarvis had played him 15 minutes a game, he would've worn out by the new year! He has never been through a grulling 80 game season before. Next year will a very different story for him. He'll log the quality minutes that will give him a lot of confidence.

Just to clear things up, Kostitsyn has played about 80 games over the last 2 years before this season. The problem is that those games are spread out between two different countries, four different leagues, and he's played for 8 different teams.

Countries- Russia, Belarus
Leagues- RSL, RHL, 1st League, EEHL
Teams- CSKA, Khimik Voskresensk 2, CSKA 2, HC Minsk, Team Belarus- U-18, U-20, Senior National team-WC, Euro Ice Hockey Challange.
Games (2 years combined)- CSKA- 17, Khimik- 2, CSKA-2- 30, HC Minsk- 4, Team Belarus- U-20- 11, U-18- 6, WC-7, EIHC-3 I think. Plus I'm missing some of his games from HC Minsk, but info from that league is very hard to come by. I believe he played there 2 or 3 different times over the last 2 years, with one stop there after his season with CSKA was over with during his draft year, and also he was loaned to HC Minsk last year to get ready for the WC's, and I believe he went back again as he helped his team win the league championship, then went back to CSKA-2 to help them win their league championship, playing in both final games.

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Old
03-07-2005, 11:20 PM
  #52
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle
Pretty tough to compare Dallas' core to Montreal's, Vlad, even including Modano and Zubov, who will each be 35+ when the NHL returns:


Modano Lehtinen Morrow Matvichuk Kapanen Ott Zubov Turco Meitennen Daley Fransson Erskine Eriksson Ellis Belle Lessard Jokinen Polak

vs.

Koivu Rivet Zednik Souray Bulis Theodore Markov Ward Begin Ribeiro Ryder Dagenais Komisarek Danis Perezhogin Plekanec Higgins Kostitsyn Hossa Chipchura Hainsey Locke

Not even in the same hemisphere as far as talent base goes.
You don't think it's even close? I think it is, even with the omission of Jason Arnott

This is very close, IMO. In Zubov and Modano, you're talking about top 10 talents in the league at their respective positions. I wouldn't expect them to fade away quickly, although that might happen.

Let's take all the Habs players you named and find a close match (not very easy, it's just to give a very rough idea):

Koivu------------Modano
Rivet -----------Matvichuk
Zednik-----------Lehtinen
Souray----------Boucher
Bulis-------------Kapanen
Theodore--------Turco
Markov----------Zubov
Ward------------Ott
Begin------------Downey
Ribeiro-----------Arnott
Ryder------------Morrow
Dagenais---------Bure (or just any crap will do )
Komisarek--------Daley
Danis------------Ellis (or Tobias Stephan)
Perezhogin-------Eriksson (I like this one, it's close enough for my tastes)
Plekanec---------Niko Kapanen
Higgins-----------Miettinen
Kostitsyn--------Jussi Jokinen (This is very odd but the best I could do)
Hossa-----------Junior Lessard (This is also odd)
Chipchura-------????? (I couldn't find any at this point. I could put D prospects because that's where the Stars have a lot of depth. So let's say WHLer Belle)
Hainsey---------Fransson
Locke-----------Polak (Polak is doing ok right now for a player his age. Similar kind of players but the leagues are so different it's tough to call this)

It's really not that different. Habs have the edge sometimes, Dallas has the edge at other times. Habs generally have more upside as far as forward prospects, Stars generally have more upside in D prospects. There are players I haven't named like Fistric. I started with the Habs players you mentioned and simply found something to put side by side. I suppose the Stars will have to make adjustments so I didn't mention Turgeon and Guerin.

This isn't meant to be accurate or anything. Just food for thoughts before envisioning a super team in the next 2 years. I just think the Habs do not stand out of the pack. It is your average NHL team.

I would say these teams are fairly close, with potentially a huge edge of Dallas if their top players play like they can. Modano is really no slouch and I doubt this is the end of the road for him.

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Old
03-07-2005, 11:53 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Yeah, there is truth to that. I just don't see how this group is special enough to forecast an elite team yet.

Give them a few years and I might think differently but right now it's very difficult.

Before I can tag a team as a future Avalanche or Wing, I'd like to see some kind of tangible success, or some truly special talent to build a case on. Everything else is way too premature for my tastes, but that's me.

Compare:

Zednik------Naslund
Ryder-------Bertuzzi
Ribeiro------Henrik Sedin
Souray-----Ohlund
Markov-----Jovanovski
Theodore---Cloutier

Then you've got guys like Perezhogin, Plekanec, AK-47, Komisarek on one side and guys like Daniel Sedin, Jason King, Bryan Allen, Bryan Kesler on the other.

This isn't about determining which team is better (I'll leave it to each to make a complete breakdown player by player if they like) but rather to illustrate that there isn't anything special here.

.
I dont get the point here... Canucks are already one of the best teams in the league relying mainly on NHL All stars Naslund and Bertuzzi to put the puck in the net... Their second line is an average one at best and bottom lines are made of grit. Overall they lack skilled fowards.

Defensively the Nucks are very solid counting on one of the best defenseman in the league in Jovanovski.

Goaltending is a big ? I always tought Cloutier was a weak #1 goaltender while Auld never impressed me.

Then you name some marginal 'prospects' like Daniel Sedin??? Jason King... Come one, the only solid prospect they have is Klesler, who I like alot.. Kesler will be a great second line player, what King and Sedins bro will never be.

On the other side Koivu is superior to Morrisson, Ryder is already a better asset than the Sedins and King while I wouldnt trade Zednik for any of them...

Perezhogin dominated the AHL at the end of last year, played in every international competitions representing his country this year, he doing very well with the Avanguards as well and is said to be one of the hottest player in Europe at the moment...

Kostitsyn's upside is obvious, is progressing very well and the chances he reach his potential are more than excellents.

Then you have Higgins, a prospect at the same level as Klesler.

Plekanec, alot more suited for the NHL than anAHL star like Jason King.

Hossa... no write him off, this guy has everything to be a solid offensive contributor in the NHL... All is about confidence with him... I think he have great chances to break out next season from what I saw... Several Habs fans wrote him off, it did'nt take long before he get the bust stinger then...

We have great goaltending and a strong bunch of defensemans...

Anyway you will se how it goes when the game resume... We will bring in 100% NHL ready prospects, our offensive is gonna be hugely improved.

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Old
03-08-2005, 12:46 AM
  #54
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I was satisfied with Kostitsyns play, not overwhelmed. It seemed that he was on a bit of a leash, but when glimpses of his potential crept out it gave me goosebumps. Next year in the AHL will be a better way to evaluate with NA experience and a bigger offensive role to play.


As for the back-and-forth that has been going on about the soon to be Habs 'dynasty', I am as excited as the next habs fan about our wave of prospects coming up, but I think calling them the next detroit is quite premature. We first have to see if our prospects will actually fill a role in the NHL..... as awful as this sounds, guys like kostitsyn, locke, hainsey could end up as busts (I am fairly confident with perezhogin, higgins and plekanec, but you still never know). We need a good number of these guys to meet their potential before we drink from that cup. Additionally, even if ALL our defensive prospects pan out, our D will still be average at best. I would absolutely LOVE to get Aucoin, but realistically this will probably be our weakness.

A dynasty like detroit had solid D, could always afford a true #1 goalie and had so many great forwards they always had at least 3 solid lines. If everything goes as planned, I could see the habs approaching this level in 3-4 years, but, although I am excited about our team simply being a playoff regular, I want to be a bit more cautious and not get caught up in the excitement...

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Old
03-08-2005, 01:04 AM
  #55
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All you can ask of Gainey is to ice a competitive team. If the team bears comparison to Vancouver and Dallas, which would have been a laughable idea just 2-3 years ago, that's really about as well as you can expect, since in any event there is no dominant team, unless Tampa and yes, Calgary find a way to repeat as finalists.

If Gainey can put together a team that can be mentioned in the same breath as those two, or Detroit and Toronto, who have a lot more money and these past few years have been more successful than us (except in 2004), then I would say that the Habs are progressing about as well as they can.

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Old
03-08-2005, 07:33 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz
Don't forget Ribeiro. He is the best Hab when it comes to controlling the puck. He has the ability to dictate the pace of play, thus, gaining time.
True. Ribs is pretty good at that as well.

My bad.

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Old
03-08-2005, 09:57 AM
  #57
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Kostitsyn is in school right now in Hamilton. He is not being asked to improve his offense. He is being asked to improve his defensive play and also his positioning without the pusk. For a player that was nill in the defensive side of the game and being a +4 I believe he is grasping what he is being thought.

For the fact that he is not playing 15 to 20 minutes a game his team is in the run for a playoff spot and as a rookie he also has to learn what it takes to bring up his game a couple of notches to make it there. I believe he is being asked to follow Higgins and Pleckanek and now Begin and Mike Komi.

So guys I believe that Kostitsyn is doing great and he will be our first liner in a couple of years and do not be surprised if he is not paired with Chipchura.

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Old
03-08-2005, 10:05 AM
  #58
Darz
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Just checking out the rookie leaders in the AHL. Right now Kosts is tied for 10th in rookie goals scored with 12. Now most of the guys ahead of him have played more games, so if you pro-rate his goals as if he played all 61 games this season to date, that would give him about 15 (14.9) to be exact which would tie him for fouth in the league in rookie goals.

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Old
03-08-2005, 10:50 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Just checking out the rookie leaders in the AHL. Right now Kosts is tied for 10th in rookie goals scored with 12. Now most of the guys ahead of him have played more games, so if you pro-rate his goals as if he played all 61 games this season to date, that would give him about 15 (14.9) to be exact which would tie him for fouth in the league in rookie goals.
Yeah he's really having a miserable year.. right.

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03-08-2005, 10:53 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markov`
Yeah he's really having a miserable year.. right.
Also take into consideration that the guys above him have been getting premium minutes on a top line with better linemates, and.....

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03-08-2005, 02:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Also take into consideration that the guys above him have been getting premium minutes on a top line with better linemates, and.....
And................the guys above him have WAY more shots.He's third in PCT among the rookies and 20th in the leauge.

Rookie leaders in goals.

1 Bochenski, Brandon 196 shots
Vanek, Thomas ROC 184 shots
3 Bourque, Rene 174 shots
4 Umberger, R.J.147 shots
Locke, Corey 83 shots
6 Himelfarb, Eric 119 shots
Voce, Tony PHI 114 shots
8 Parise, Zach 155 shots
Williams, Jeremy 98 shots
10 Paille, Daniel 82 shots
elech, Randall 98 shots
Andrei Kostitsyn 72 shots.

Parise has 13 goals and he shooted 155 times (that's almost twice more then Kostitsyn).

Kostitsyn has 12 goals and he shooted 72 times.

Imagine if he'd have shooted like 155 tmes.

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Old
03-08-2005, 03:24 PM
  #62
Vlad The Impaler
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I gotta give it to you guys, you sure know how to put a positive spin on things

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03-08-2005, 03:28 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler

Koivu------------Modano
Rivet -----------Matvichuk
Zednik-----------Lehtinen
Souray----------Boucher
Bulis-------------Kapanen
Theodore--------Turco
Markov----------Zubov
Ward------------Ott
Begin------------Downey
Ribeiro-----------Arnott
Ryder------------Morrow
Dagenais---------Bure (or just any crap will do )
Komisarek--------Daley
Danis------------Ellis (or Tobias Stephan)
Perezhogin-------Eriksson (I like this one, it's close enough for my tastes)
Plekanec---------Niko Kapanen
Higgins-----------Miettinen
Kostitsyn--------Jussi Jokinen (This is very odd but the best I could do)
Hossa-----------Junior Lessard (This is also odd)
Chipchura-------????? (I couldn't find any at this point. I could put D prospects because that's where the Stars have a lot of depth. So let's say WHLer Belle)
Hainsey---------Fransson
Locke-----------Polak (Polak is doing ok right now for a player his age. Similar kind of players but the leagues are so different it's tough to call this)
In all your comparisons, you always forget Bonk and it's avery very notable omission.

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Old
03-08-2005, 03:42 PM
  #64
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez
In all your comparisons, you always forget Bonk and it's avery very notable omission.
I didn't forget. I go with the players I am told about. You can include Bonk, I'll find someone to match him too. Barnes, Turgeon, whatever.

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03-08-2005, 03:59 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great One
And................the guys above him have WAY more shots.He's third in PCT among the rookies and 20th in the leauge.

Rookie leaders in goals.

1 Bochenski, Brandon 196 shots
Vanek, Thomas ROC 184 shots
3 Bourque, Rene 174 shots
4 Umberger, R.J.147 shots
Locke, Corey 83 shots
6 Himelfarb, Eric 119 shots
Voce, Tony PHI 114 shots
8 Parise, Zach 155 shots
Williams, Jeremy 98 shots
10 Paille, Daniel 82 shots
elech, Randall 98 shots
Andrei Kostitsyn 72 shots.

Parise has 13 goals and he shooted 155 times (that's almost twice more then Kostitsyn).

Kostitsyn has 12 goals and he shooted 72 times.

Imagine if he'd have shooted like 155 tmes.


He'll if he got Parise's icetime & had his linemates he'd have 255 shots by now with probably 30+ goals..._______________________
____________________________________this blank space is for Vlad to tell me how wrong I am & hurt my feelings & and that I'm a clown living in some fantasy world...

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03-08-2005, 04:05 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I gotta give it to you guys, you sure know how to put a positive spin on things
Positive/opimistic/patient fans are the best one , Vlad!

There's nothing wrong to say positve things about our prospects.There are some limits , I agree but nonetheless , there's nothing wrong about that.

cyggyboy...Parise is playing on a very weak team and I'm sure the devils management wants Parise to play often in this kind of team to gain experience.He's indeed receiving first line icetime and first unit pp icetime.You aren't a clown , btw.

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03-08-2005, 04:18 PM
  #67
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciggyboy
He'll if he got Parise's icetime & had his linemates he'd have 255 shots by now with probably 30+ goals..._______________________
____________________________________this blank space is for Vlad to tell me how wrong I am & hurt my feelings & and that I'm a clown living in some fantasy world...

I'm not going to hurt your feelings or anything.

I'm just going to say I think this is highly unlikely for various reasons. One of which being AK-47 simply doesn't have what it takes at this point to get Parise responsibilities on ice.

Parise is simply at another level right now.

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03-08-2005, 04:46 PM
  #68
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The fact he was scored the first Hamilton goal of the year proved to me that AK is and will be a stud player.
Whaa?

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03-08-2005, 09:27 PM
  #69
Ryan O'Byrne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great One
And................the guys above him have WAY more shots.He's third in PCT among the rookies and 20th in the leauge.

Rookie leaders in goals.

1 Bochenski, Brandon 196 shots
Vanek, Thomas ROC 184 shots
3 Bourque, Rene 174 shots
4 Umberger, R.J.147 shots
Locke, Corey 83 shots
6 Himelfarb, Eric 119 shots
Voce, Tony PHI 114 shots
8 Parise, Zach 155 shots
Williams, Jeremy 98 shots
10 Paille, Daniel 82 shots
elech, Randall 98 shots
Andrei Kostitsyn 72 shots.

Parise has 13 goals and he shooted 155 times (that's almost twice more then Kostitsyn).

Kostitsyn has 12 goals and he shooted 72 times.

Imagine if he'd have shooted like 155 tmes.
That is over double the amount of shots 72x2=144 shots 2.15 times to be exact

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Old
03-08-2005, 09:32 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Also take into consideration that the guys above him have been getting premium minutes on a top line with better linemates, and.....
You got it right my friend. He sucks!


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03-08-2005, 09:34 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
One of which being AK-47 simply doesn't have what it takes at this point to get Parise responsibilities on ice.

Parise is simply at another level right now.
That part was funny. Thanks for making me laugh everyday.

Kostitsyn is simply playing with crappy teammates, and way less than Parise right now, which is why he have less shot. Still, he has 12 goals while Parise has 13. You can't deny Kostitsyn is a wayyyyyyyy better goalscorer.

If Parise is simply at another level right now "all around", Kostistyn is simply at another level for goalscoring.

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03-08-2005, 09:41 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I'm not going to hurt your feelings or anything.

I'm just going to say I think this is highly unlikely for various reasons. One of which being AK-47 simply doesn't have what it takes at this point to get Parise responsibilities on ice.

Parise is simply at another level right now.
This is maybe why Albany sucks so much.. Having a baby face rookie getting so much responsabilities let me wondering about your depth.


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 03-08-2005 at 10:37 PM.
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03-08-2005, 09:59 PM
  #73
Ryan O'Byrne
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler


One of which being AK-47 simply doesn't have what it takes at this point to get Parise responsibilities on ice.

Parise is simply at another level right now.

yah the minus level


Last edited by Ryan O'Byrne: 03-08-2005 at 10:04 PM.
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03-08-2005, 10:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I gotta give it to you guys, you sure know how to put a positive spin on things
So give me negative comments about some of the Sabres prospects?

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Old
03-09-2005, 12:23 AM
  #75
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well there's no point in comparing Parise to AK-47, they'll both play big parts in their respective organizations. That shooting ratio MEANS NOTHING. Hell I remember Scott Fraser had something like 23pts in 28 games playing 10 minutes a game. That doesn't mean he'll pile up 164 pts a season if he played 30 minutes a game. Granted, Kosts is a very gifted goalscorer and a decent plamaker to boot but he's also raw and I'm only starting to see maturity now. He still needs a bit of seasoning before jumping into the trenches.

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