A few short months ago, the jury was still out on Nazem Kadri. Questions about his size, his heart, his head, and subsequently his future as a Leaf, loomed in the minds of Leaf Nation.
A few short months ago, the jury was still out on Nazem Kadri. Questions about his size, his heart, his head, and subsequently his future as a Leaf, loomed in the minds of Leaf Nation.
Agreed completely. Slow & steady has payed off huge dividends with Kadri, so I don't see a reason to chance that plan now. Personally, I'd make his line the "2nd" line ice-time wise (once Frattin is back to form), but I'd still keep him 2nd power-play (or maybe 1b if you want to call it that). Force the other team to choose: do we send out the best against Kessel, or Kadri? Yea, Kessel is having a bad year by his standards, but most bright people aren't counting on that lasting for too long, especially after Lupul returns.
I disagree that his time with the Marlies didn't help Naz. It clearly did. The rest was pretty good. Agree with his comments on Crosby as well.
I'll say this, Naz was given a spot out of camp last year and got hurt. Was out for 3 - 4 weeks correct?? Then some time to get back in the groove with the Marlies and it was about getting a spot after that.
Staying healthy this time around has been a big plus for Naz.
I disagree that his time with the Marlies didn't help Naz. It clearly did. The rest was pretty good. Agree with his comments on Crosby as well.
I'll say this, Naz was given a spot out of camp last year and got hurt. Was out for 3 - 4 weeks correct?? Then some time to get back in the groove with the Marlies and it was about getting a spot after that.
Staying healthy this time around has been a big plus for Naz.
I don't know why everyone wants to edit history on this issue. He was ready from day one. He got better with the Marlies, but he was better than guys on the Leafs roster and could have gotten better with the Leafs (like literally every very talented youngster on nearly every other team).
He also was not given a spot out of training camp even though he had earned it. He got hurt, was out for a week or so. He played three games because a couple of Leafs forwards were injured. Once they came back, Kadri was sent down to the Marlies.
I don't know why everyone wants to edit history on this issue. He was ready from day one. He got better with the Marlies, but he was better than guys on the Leafs roster and could have gotten better with the Leafs (like literally every very talented youngster on nearly every other team).
He also was not given a spot out of training camp even though he had earned it. He got hurt, was out for a week or so. He played three games because a couple of Leafs forwards were injured. Once they came back, Kadri was sent down to the Marlies.
Why does any of this matter? He's been developed with caution and now it's paying dividends. Even if Kadri was as ready as you say he was, what difference would it have made to the team? Unless he would have made us a playoff team between 09 and now (which I highly doubt), there's really nothing to be arguing about.
Why does any of this matter? He's been developed with caution and now it's paying dividends. Even if Kadri was as ready as you say he was, what difference would it have made to the team? Unless he would have made us a playoff team between 09 and now (which I highly doubt), there's really nothing to be arguing about.
First of all, I'm not ashamed to say that I partially argue in order to gloat over being right.
Secondly, just like there is a risk in rushing prospects, there is a risk when you keep them playing in competition which is beneath them. You stagnate their growth. Players need to be challenged in order to grow.
When Kadri was sent to London after his first training camp: HE WAS NOT CHALLENGED. He began developing the habit of trying to deke everything and everyone because he was so much better than everyone else. Don't believe me? Look at this video.
Specifically look at 3:55. Then look at 4:27. Then 5:05. It keeps going but do you notice how he picks up the puck in his own zone and tries to deke everyone? He had no business being in juniors that year. He was not being challenged, was not learning anything and was instead picking up the "nasty habits" that Ron Wilson wanted to keep complaining about.
And even when Kadri minimized those dekes (i.e. LAST year), the Leafs still didn't put him on the team.
It was stupidity. He's great now. He could be even greater now if he was handled properly. He could have contributed more years to the team instead of less.
If the Leafs kept up that stupidity for one more year - just like many guys who post here wanted - he would've gone to another team and embarrassed this franchise for the rest of his career.
When Kadri was sent to London after his first training camp: HE WAS NOT CHALLENGED. He began developing the habit of trying to deke everything and everyone because he was so much better than everyone else. Don't believe me? Look at this video..
He didn't develop that after getting sent back down - he's been like that since he was 10 years old.
He didn't develop that after getting sent back down - he's been like that since he was 10 years old.
Not to that extent. I've been watching him closely since he was in Kitchener. He took it to another level after his draft year. He had his way with other teams on seemingly a whim.
Not to that extent. I've been watching him closely since he was in Kitchener. He took it to another level after his draft year. He had his way with other teams on seemingly a whim.
He's always had the hero complex. He's always attempted to walk through the entire opposing team. He was just more successful in London, which is why there are more highlights.
He's always had the hero complex. He's always attempted to walk through the entire opposing team. He was just more successful in London, which is why there are more highlights.
He was overly successful at it in the year he was sent back, so he began doing it with extreme excessiveness. The video I posted are clips from a single game. He would literally try it every shift.
He was not that excessive the prior year in London. For one, I watched him play many times so I know factually that is untrue. Secondly, he wasn't good enough to do his prior year...he had to use his line mates more often.
"I just think the communication factor is there [with Carlyle]," he said. "Everything really has an explanation, and I'm not sitting there wondering what’s going on or why something's happening. I just think that’s the biggest difference for me."
TORONTO - When Peter DeBoer clicked on the tube Friday morning, the sight of one of his former pupils dominating at the NHL level put a huge grin on his face.
There was Nazem Kadri, DeBoer’s ex-student with the Kitchener Rangers of the Ontario Hockey League, scoring his first professional hat trick in a 5-4 overtime victory for the Maple Leafs against the New York Islanders on Thursday night.
“Seeing the highlights of Nazem scoring his hat trick against the Islanders made me smile,” the New Jersey Devils coach said in a phone interview this weekend.
And, in the process, reminded DeBoer of some of the characteristics he feels Kadri shares with former Maple Leafs great Doug Gilmour.
Perhaps the biggest buzz created by Kadri came when he completed his hat trick with a brilliant individual toe-drag effort, one that caused the Twitter world to go crazy with suggestions that the jock strap belonging to Isles defenceman Lubomir Visnovsky was still lying on the Nassau Coliseum ice after he was deked out of it on the play.
Spectacular?
Absolutely.
Unexpected?
Not for DeBoer, Kadri’s junior coach during the 2006-07 and 07-08 seasons.
“I’ve seen that goal before,” DeBoer said with a chuckle. “I know he’s capable of that.
“I’m not surprised how Naz is doing right now. He’s a very special talented kid.”
When DeBoer speaks of Kadri’s God-given talents, he notes the unique mixture of skills and determination possessed by the London, Ont., native.
But it is the intangibles that add to the Kadri mystique, especially the fierce competitiveness that leaves him refusing to back down from players who are much bigger than he is, no matter what the consequences.
“He’s always played like that, even when I coached him in junior,” DeBoer said.
“He’s always played with an edge.
“He plays with the same edge as Doug Gilmour did.”
Quote:
GILMOUR HAS HEARD THE COMPARISONS
Doug Gilmour has heard the comparisons to Nazem Kadri before.
Informed that Kadri’s junior coach in Kitchener, Peter DeBoer, said the young forward “plays with the same edge as Doug Gilmour,” No. 93 acknowledged being familiar with the analogy.
“I remember my friend Mark Hunter, the GM of the London Knights, telling me, ‘Dougie, this kid plays hard and tough and competitively. He plays with the same edge as you did,’ ” Gilmour told the Toronto Sun on Saturday.
“From what I’ve seen, he plays hard,” Gilmour added.
“And there seems to be a lot of untapped skill there.”
Now the general manager in Kingston, Gilmour, during his tenure as bench boss of the Frontenacs, did coach against Kadri in the OHL.
“But he played in the other conference from us (with Kitchener and London) so we only faced him once or twice a season. That makes it difficult for me to say exactly what I picked up in his game,” Gilmour said.
“From being at the (Leaf games) and what I’ve seen on TV, though, I like what I’ve seen.”
Specifically look at 3:55. Then look at 4:27. Then 5:05. It keeps going but do you notice how he picks up the puck in his own zone and tries to deke everyone? He had no business being in juniors that year. He was not being challenged, was not learning anything and was instead picking up the "nasty habits" that Ron Wilson wanted to keep complaining about.
And even when Kadri minimized those dekes (i.e. LAST year), the Leafs still didn't put him on the team.
It was stupidity. He's great now. He could be even greater now if he was handled properly. He could have contributed more years to the team instead of less.
If the Leafs kept up that stupidity for one more year - just like many guys who post here wanted - he would've gone to another team and embarrassed this franchise for the rest of his career.
I agree 110%, you hit the nail with this. Wilson is even more of a moron in hindsight with his nasty habits thing. Should have just started him in the NHl if you didn't want Kadri to pick up Nasty habits. But GM's and coaches were too worried bout what others will think about them and their teams, Burke and Wilson didn't want to admit that the team was so **** that a rookie straight out of the OHL would be on the team.
This is why the OHL to AHL rules are ridiculous. If a player is drafted to the NHL in the first 3 rounds he should have a straight avenue into the AHL should he want to go there.
I agree 110%, you hit the nail with this. Wilson is even more of a moron in hindsight with his nasty habits thing. Should have just started him in the NHl if you didn't want Kadri to pick up Nasty habits. But GM's and coaches were too worried bout what others will think about them and their teams, Burke and Wilson didn't want to admit that the team was so **** that a rookie straight out of the OHL would be on the team.
This is why the OHL to AHL rules are ridiculous. If a player is drafted to the NHL in the first 3 rounds he should have a straight avenue into the AHL should he want to go there.
Definitely agree about changing the AHL rule. Kadri wasted his time in the OHL. He was clearly head and shoulders above everyone in the league.
I agree about not being challenged in his last year in London.
Kadri's skillset is contrary to the lessons we are taught growing up... headman the puck, good first outlet pass, 1 deke than either pass or dump... By his last year in junior, his ability to dangle was so high that doing those basic things seemed like a waste, not only to him but im sure to Dale Hunter
My issue always was that if he stayed in the NHL that year he would have been bullied hard. He was about as good a skater as he is now, but he was definitely 15 pounds lighter, and didnt have the balance on his skates.
If there is a type of player that would benefit most from changing the existing CHL-NHL agreement, its a Kadri type.
I expect we will hear the same thing next year with Drouin. I think it would be a crime to have Drouin in the NHL considering the speed and physicality of the league, but hes probably the most skilled player in the entire CHL and hes 17
I agree 110%, you hit the nail with this. Wilson is even more of a moron in hindsight with his nasty habits thing. Should have just started him in the NHl if you didn't want Kadri to pick up Nasty habits. But GM's and coaches were too worried bout what others will think about them and their teams, Burke and Wilson didn't want to admit that the team was so **** that a rookie straight out of the OHL would be on the team.
This is why the OHL to AHL rules are ridiculous. If a player is drafted to the NHL in the first 3 rounds he should have a straight avenue into the AHL should he want to go there.
Yea, the OHL-AHL rules are a good point to bring up...it at least gives teams some flexibility in dealing with their prospects.
On the other hand, other teams have kept their very talented players who still had issues in their game (Skinner, Stamkos, Seguin) and played them in very sheltered roles in their rookie season. All those players were able to refine their games quickly and make a big impact soon after.
Kadri could have been in that boat as well had he been handled appropriately.
First of all, I'm not ashamed to say that I partially argue in order to gloat over being right.
Secondly, just like there is a risk in rushing prospects, there is a risk when you keep them playing in competition which is beneath them. You stagnate their growth. Players need to be challenged in order to grow.
When Kadri was sent to London after his first training camp: HE WAS NOT CHALLENGED. He began developing the habit of trying to deke everything and everyone because he was so much better than everyone else. Don't believe me? Look at this video.
Specifically look at 3:55. Then look at 4:27. Then 5:05. It keeps going but do you notice how he picks up the puck in his own zone and tries to deke everyone? He had no business being in juniors that year. He was not being challenged, was not learning anything and was instead picking up the "nasty habits" that Ron Wilson wanted to keep complaining about.
And even when Kadri minimized those dekes (i.e. LAST year), the Leafs still didn't put him on the team.
It was stupidity. He's great now. He could be even greater now if he was handled properly. He could have contributed more years to the team instead of less.
If the Leafs kept up that stupidity for one more year - just like many guys who post here wanted - he would've gone to another team and embarrassed this franchise for the rest of his career.
Never considered this perspective. I'll agree with you on all of this.
I don't know why everyone wants to edit history on this issue. He was ready from day one. He got better with the Marlies, but he was better than guys on the Leafs roster and could have gotten better with the Leafs (like literally every very talented youngster on nearly every other team).
He also was not given a spot out of training camp even though he had earned it. He got hurt, was out for a week or so. He played three games because a couple of Leafs forwards were injured. Once they came back, Kadri was sent down to the Marlies.
Not defending Wilson really but it's not revisionist history that Naz made the team despite not having his best camp. Then he got hurt at pretty much the worst time and was out long enough to give other guys a look. He should have been back sooner and given a longer leash when he was. That was their biggest blunder, but as was posted below, it hardly matters now and he is clearly better now than he was last season in brief stints.
He was overly successful at it in the year he was sent back, so he began doing it with extreme excessiveness. The video I posted are clips from a single game. He would literally try it every shift.
He was not that excessive the prior year in London. For one, I watched him play many times so I know factually that is untrue. Secondly, he wasn't good enough to do his prior year...he had to use his line mates more often.
Did you even watch the whole video? There are like 20 clips, and only 2-3 are an example of what you're talking about. You specifically listed 3 clips, but only one of them showed what you're talking about. The 3:55 clip is an example of him trying to do too much, but that's something he has always done. The 4:27 clip, he cut to the middle because that's what was open - nothing wrong with that one. The 5:05 clip was a smart dump and chase.
Here is a list of every clip that was shown.
#1: beats one guy at his own blue line, then dekes one guy in the neutral zone, then a long pass for an assist
#2: cuts to the middle of the ice, between two guys, and scores #3: retreated to create some depth, beat two guys in his own zone, then made a long pass
#4: cuts to the middle and shoots
#5: beats one guy at the offensive blueline, then cuts to the middle for a shot
#6: a long back-hand pass, then another cross-ice pass
#7: dumps the puck in and forechecks
#8: drives wide, gets caught behind the net, and makes a short pass
#9: a breakout pass
#10: a short pass, a short back-hand pass, and then a long cross-ice pass
#11: tries to slow up to create a gap but runs into a team mate at the blue line, then makes a long back-hand pass #12: tries to beat a guy to the middle in the neutral zone, but get stopped
#13: missed a guy with an elbow
#14: crushes a guy in the defensive zone
#15: quick back-hand pass
#16: drives the net, runs over the goalie
#17: gets hit, pushes back and knocks the other guy down
The bolded two are the only plays that were ill-advised.
