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Old
02-09-2013, 12:16 PM
  #451
Cin
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Well if they want the best player who won't take stupid penalties, Sceviour should get the call. If they want to stick with the guys on the roster that's fine too.

Also, complaining about R. Smith not producing is incredibly short-sighted.

Gazdic.
Yeah it's only been the first quarter of the season.

0 points.
-2.
7 shots in 10 games.

A couple of games in the AHL couldn't hurt to spark him up.

Then we have Fraser who's done everything you could ask him to do waiting for another shot.

Soooooooo short-sighted grand master piqued.

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02-09-2013, 01:01 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Yeah it's only been the first quarter of the season.

0 points.
-2.
7 shots in 10 games.

A couple of games in the AHL couldn't hurt to spark him up.

Then we have Fraser who's done everything you could ask him to do waiting for another shot.

Soooooooo short-sighted grand master piqued.


With all due respect to Cin, I think something in piqued's favor on this one is that Reilly did the same thing in the AHL. He was invisible the first, I dunno exactly(lazy), 15 games or so. And then he figured it out and took off.

I wonder if some line shake-ups wouldn't help.

Morrow Benn Jagr (working, leave it alone)
Vincour Roy Ryder
Smith Eakin Loui (maybe too soft)

The reason I put Vincour there, good forechecker, puck battle winner, net presence. Lets Roy and Ryder work circle/slot/half boards and Vincour down low.

Just a thought. Vincour's spot is the one where I feel like an upgrade would most help the forwards.

But yeah. I am cool with waiting 10 more games or so to see what Smith does. Loui took FOREVER.

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02-09-2013, 01:13 PM
  #453
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Gulutzan already tried something similar and didn't even give it 2 full periods. The lines were:

Morrow-Benn-Jagr
Eriksson-Roy-Vincour
Smith-Eakin-Ryder

The guy has no patience whatsoever. Regardless, I like the Top 9 in it's current configuration. The Top 6 has looked dangerous, and Eakin's line just needs some patience.

It wouldn't be that surprising to send Smitty down for a bit, but I do agree that Fraser is going to need the same adjustment period. Lack of patience to let a guy get up and running isn't going to make the next guy magically play at an NHL level his first game. Fraser deserves a chance ... just as much as Smith deserves some consistency.

I was actually thinking Morrow wouldn't do as well thus opening an opportunity for Fraser in the Top 9, but Morrow is adjusting to the bigger minutes and bigger role. I'm not exactly confident he'll stay healthy, but he's done nothing to deserve to lose that spot.

I think you have to give Gulutzan credit in this scenario for finding a useful role for Morrow while still giving three young guys a deserved opportunity to mesh as a 3rd scoring line/defensively responsible trio. If he can have even more patience and allow them to stick together, I do believe they'll reward him with some much needed secondary scoring. Eakin and Smith have both been inches away from goals several times.

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02-09-2013, 02:15 PM
  #454
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The thing scaring me so much about Morrow actually playing well is that this is a UFA year for him.

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02-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by haf View Post


With all due respect to Cin, I think something in piqued's favor on this one is that Reilly did the same thing in the AHL. He was invisible the first, I dunno exactly(lazy), 15 games or so. And then he figured it out and took off.

I wonder if some line shake-ups wouldn't help.

Morrow Benn Jagr (working, leave it alone)
Vincour Roy Ryder
Smith Eakin Loui (maybe too soft)

The reason I put Vincour there, good forechecker, puck battle winner, net presence. Lets Roy and Ryder work circle/slot/half boards and Vincour down low.

Just a thought. Vincour's spot is the one where I feel like an upgrade would most help the forwards.

But yeah. I am cool with waiting 10 more games or so to see what Smith does. Loui took FOREVER.
I'm right there with you man, I just think right now would be a great time for the reasons BigG suggested with the road trip. Could help jumpstart him

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02-09-2013, 03:01 PM
  #456
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Not sure it would take Fraser as long to adjust as Smith. I'd be surprised if it took Fraser 10 games to score. He has a lot more pro experience than Smith. I think they'll start to come for Smith..I do wish Fraser could get a chance.

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02-09-2013, 03:04 PM
  #457
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Keep Eakin and Smith together, he'll start producing eventually. Don't need to call up Fraser unless one of our wingers goes down.

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02-09-2013, 05:53 PM
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Yeah it's only been the first quarter of the season.

0 points.
-2.
7 shots in 10 games.

A couple of games in the AHL couldn't hurt to spark him up.

Then we have Fraser who's done everything you could ask him to do waiting for another shot.

Soooooooo short-sighted grand master piqued.
Yeah, let's keep jerking R. Smith around and pit him against another prospect in Fraser in a zero sum game, brilliant. Fraser will get his chance in time.

Production is irrelevant at this stage. The process is all that matters. R. Smith is learning the game at the NHL level and acquitting himself perfectly well. All it takes is actually watching him.

Which is the line that gets consistently dominated at even strength? It certainly isn't the kid line. It's Fiddler and Co. If they were playing like them then I'd be worried.

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02-09-2013, 06:22 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Yeah, let's keep jerking R. Smith around and pit him against another prospect in Fraser in a zero sum game, brilliant. Fraser will get his chance in time.

Production is irrelevant at this stage. The process is all that matters. R. Smith is learning the game at the NHL level and acquitting himself perfectly well. All it takes is actually watching him.

Which is the line that gets consistently dominated at even strength? It certainly isn't the kid line. It's Fiddler and Co. If they were playing like them then I'd be worried.
Fiddler's line seems all about winning the draw. Win the draw and they will push it around the offensive zone for 45 seconds and call it a wash. Lose the draw however...(palm/face).

Not sure what to do to fix it however.

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Old
02-09-2013, 06:56 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Yeah, let's keep jerking R. Smith around and pit him against another prospect in Fraser in a zero sum game, brilliant. Fraser will get his chance in time.

Production is irrelevant at this stage. The process is all that matters. R. Smith is learning the game at the NHL level and acquitting himself perfectly well. All it takes is actually watching him.

Which is the line that gets consistently dominated at even strength? It certainly isn't the kid line. It's Fiddler and Co. If they were playing like them then I'd be worried.
Sounds just like what Joe loves to do. Seem to recall several quotes about creating competition with the goalies. Hmm...

Nobody is even talking about other lines. Just about trying to get Smith's game going. A two game trip to the AHL isn't all doom and gloom. This is the NHL, and you either put up, or you don't. He's not. Will he? Certainly has all the tools

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02-09-2013, 07:09 PM
  #461
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You guys really still think Vincour should take Eriksson or Ryder's spot? We have already seen him multiple times slotted in the top six, at least I thought it was(including last year). I don't think you take either of those two out or the top six. The points will come for the lower lines. As of right now, the top lines look pretty good. Hell all four lines have been playing at least decent

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02-09-2013, 07:12 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by HatchtrickBateman View Post
You guys really still think Vincour should take Eriksson or Ryder's spot? We have already seen him multiple times slotted in the top six, at least I thought it was(including last year). I don't think you take either of those two out or the top six. The points will come for the lower lines. As of right now, the top lines look pretty good. Hell all four lines have been playing at least decent
Nope. He's a bottom 6 player.

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02-09-2013, 07:13 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatchtrickBateman View Post
You guys really still think Vincour should take Eriksson or Ryder's spot? We have already seen him multiple times slotted in the top six, at least I thought it was(including last year). I don't think you take either of those two out or the top six. The points will come for the lower lines. As of right now, the top lines look pretty good. Hell all four lines have been playing at least decent
eriksson's or ryder's spot? put down the crack pipe. no freaking way. vincour has shown that he can be a decent bottom 6 guy so far, but no. just, no.

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02-09-2013, 07:14 PM
  #464
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Until haf brought it up today, no one was asking for Vincour to play in the Top 6. I was pointing out that Gulutzan already had him up there for 2/3rds of a game though.

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02-09-2013, 07:44 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by eartotheground View Post
eriksson's or ryder's spot? put down the crack pipe. no freaking way. vincour has shown that he can be a decent bottom 6 guy so far, but no. just, no.
I was responding to a previous post. I thought I made my position fairly clear that you don't take Eriksson or Ryder out... Soooo ya

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02-09-2013, 08:03 PM
  #466
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I was responding to a previous post. I thought I made my position fairly clear that you don't take Eriksson or Ryder out... Soooo ya
no offense intended, merely hyperbole. and more at whoever held that position in the first place. apparently it was just haf? i don't know if he was for it, or just throwing it out there, but it's just a ludicrous theory.

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02-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Sounds just like what Joe loves to do. Seem to recall several quotes about creating competition with the goalies. Hmm...

Nobody is even talking about other lines. Just about trying to get Smith's game going. A two game trip to the AHL isn't all doom and gloom. This is the NHL, and you either put up, or you don't. He's not. Will he? Certainly has all the tools
Yeah, as long as Reilly's spot in the lineup is filled by another young player I don't have a problem sending him down for a while to give another guy a sniff. I don't see what R. Smith has done to be so much higher on the depth chart than Fraser. Why can't Fraser be the guy getting the time now and Smith being the one to benefit from Ryder's future absence. The only reason I can think is that Smith's defensive game is that much better than Fraser's but this team has one major problem and that's scoring goals. Why not see if the best goal scoring prospect in the pros can take a crack at the NHL for a handful of games.

While I'm all for patience with the youngsters I'm on board with giving chances to a number of guys, as long as they are young and look to be part of the future. In that respect Reilly Smith hasn't made himself irreplaceable.

When Jackson told Tip to play Loui it was absolutely Loui's time, it was obvious to almost everybody. He was scoring in dribbles, winning puck battles, doing all those Loui things we love but he was scoring - some. He also spent an entire season in the AHL where he scored 31 goals and 60 points. He had earned it. Smith is good and I think he'll turn out, in some fashion at least. I just don't see the harm in sending him down and giving another guy a chance, a guy who put in a year's duty in the minors already to work on refining his defensive game as well as proving his scoring acumen. For godsakes he was the only actual legitimate goalscorer on his team last season, as a rookie, scoring 16 more goals than his nearest teammate.

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02-09-2013, 09:42 PM
  #468
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I was not implying Vincour is worthy of top 6. I was thinking of him as a role player and trying to get a situation where Loui and Eakin could play together and we maybe spread out the scoring even more.

Every top 3 center gets a proven winger:

1 Benn-Jagr
2 Roy-Ryder
3 Eakin-Loui

and then tried to place other forwards in with them:

1 Morrow – (because it is working)
3 R. Smith – (because of Eakin and Smith's recent history in AHL)
2 Vincour – (because he was what's left and I thought the skills he does bring to the table seemed to fit both Ryder and Roy, who both have shots and want to be in front of the goal so they can score).

I tend to not think of Top 6 / Bottom 6 quite so strictly. Just because Morrow is on line 1 doesn't mean he is a first line winger. I mean it does, but the same nomenclature functions differently in different situations. Crosby and Malkin. Which one of those are a 2nd line center? Neither of course. They are both 1st liners. But they play on different lines that for shorthand reasons are referred to as "1" and "2".

Vincour is a bottom 6 role player/4th liner really, but that doesn't mean he can't play with 2nd line scorers if it makes sense. Which it may not. Again, just want to see Loui and Eakin together.

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02-09-2013, 09:45 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Yeah, as long as Reilly's spot in the lineup is filled by another young player I don't have a problem sending him down for a while to give another guy a sniff. I don't see what R. Smith has done to be so much higher on the depth chart than Fraser. Why can't Fraser be the guy getting the time now and Smith being the one to benefit from Ryder's future absence. The only reason I can think is that Smith's defensive game is that much better than Fraser's but this team has one major problem and that's scoring goals. Why not see if the best goal scoring prospect in the pros can take a crack at the NHL for a handful of games.

While I'm all for patience with the youngsters I'm on board with giving chances to a number of guys, as long as they are young and look to be part of the future. In that respect Reilly Smith hasn't made himself irreplaceable.

When Jackson told Tip to play Loui it was absolutely Loui's time, it was obvious to almost everybody. He was scoring in dribbles, winning puck battles, doing all those Loui things we love but he was scoring - some. He also spent an entire season in the AHL where he scored 31 goals and 60 points. He had earned it. Smith is good and I think he'll turn out, in some fashion at least. I just don't see the harm in sending him down and giving another guy a chance, a guy who put in a year's duty in the minors already to work on refining his defensive game as well as proving his scoring acumen. For godsakes he was the only actual legitimate goalscorer on his team last season, as a rookie, scoring 16 more goals than his nearest teammate.
While I am fine with patience regarding Smith, I am also into JNGM's competition theory regarding goalies applied everywhere. Bring up Frasier and let's see. Let them drive each other.

I am fine with it if it is to take a look at Frasier.

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02-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #470
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"... - and Jags & 81 on ice for 2nd time in 12 hrs." this tweet comes from Ralph Strangis at 10:00 a.m. Guess Jagr's work ethic is already rubbing off on on other players

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02-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #471
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Langenbrunner out for the season.
Cue the "Morrow to St. Louis" threads.

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02-10-2013, 12:47 PM
  #472
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Langenbrunner out for the season.
Cue the "Morrow to St. Louis" threads.
Morrow for Zubov.

I'm almost serious too.

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02-10-2013, 12:48 PM
  #473
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"... - and Jags & 81 on ice for 2nd time in 12 hrs." this tweet comes from Ralph Strangis at 10:00 a.m. Guess Jagr's work ethic is already rubbing off on on other players
If I were Vincour, I'd want to be on the ice with Jagr as much as possible. Glad to see that.

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02-10-2013, 05:53 PM
  #474
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Hi everyone, just going to introduce myself (and then I assume be thrown to the dogs ) and have a few thoughts on how the season is going.

Well, I'm from GB, and have been a Stars fan since 2000 when I played NHL HITZ 20-02 and the Stars had the best looking jerseys.

This season is how I sort of expected it. Very disappointed by the lack of fire to start with but I'm glad they are turning it around. Clearly a lack of leadership in the locker room and it probably did need someone like Jagr stepping up saying this is not on. As far as Gully goes I don't think he's doing anything particularly wrong, quite hard to rotate in rookies who play similar styles to your veterans (far too many small Dmen) and also expect rookies to be gods straight away. Needs to lose his love affair of Fiddler-Nystrom at even strength. I like the third "Texas Stars" line.

Terms of players, Benn is Benn, Roy is a great great pickup. I think Eriksson has had an unfortunate slump, still does what he does off the puck just needs a bit more luck and confidence to go with it.

Lehtonen is incredible. Oleksiak and Dillon look solid.

I suspect we'll be anywhere from 7th - 12th this season.

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02-10-2013, 06:28 PM
  #475
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Welcome.

Sounds like you're pretty much on par with what we all think here, so that's good.

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