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Have the Canucks 100% Committed to Schneider?

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01-25-2013, 04:55 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by goodluckchuck View Post
people need to ask, why would Luongo go from a cup contender (what most of you claim the canucks are) to a team that fights just to get in the playoffs (and most likely won't make it)

it makes 0 sense for Luongo to ask for a trade. He is being forced out of Vancouver.

Luongo has handled the whole situation with class. The organization not so much. They've thrown him under the bus completely.
You can't contend for the cup sitting on the bench. That's why.

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01-25-2013, 05:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
You can't contend for the cup sitting on the bench. That's why.
You also can't contend for the cup when the team you're being traded has not made the playoffs since the lock out.

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01-25-2013, 06:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by goodluckchuck View Post
You also can't contend for the cup when the team you're being traded has not made the playoffs since the lock out.
Guy wants to compete. Can't do that on the bench. That's the point.

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01-25-2013, 06:04 PM
  #29
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I still believe that if we trade Schneider instead, it would be a huge mistake.

Totally disagree with the "The difference in value outweighs the difference in ability!" logic.

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01-25-2013, 06:37 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I still believe that if we trade Schneider instead, it would be a huge mistake.

Totally disagree with the "The difference in value outweighs the difference in ability!" logic.
The management should not trade either. They should use this shortened season as audition to see who will be kept going forward.

So far AV is playing it right. Both goalies deserve to be starter. Luongo was NOT the reason the canucks were eliminated in the playoffs last year. Schneider was in net for game 3 - 5. His record was 1-2. And as i recall he played in net in game 6 of the chicago series so overall his playoff record is 1-3.

The media has overblown this thing out of proportion. And the fan base is too fickle to understand that their overreaction has lost a good goalie his starting spot.

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01-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by goodluckchuck View Post
The management should not trade either. They should use this shortened season as audition to see who will be kept going forward.

So far AV is playing it right. Both goalies deserve to be starter. Luongo was NOT the reason the canucks were eliminated in the playoffs last year. Schneider was in net for game 3 - 5. His record was 1-2. And as i recall he played in net in game 6 of the chicago series so overall his playoff record is 1-3.

The media has overblown this thing out of proportion. And the fan base is too fickle to understand that their overreaction has lost a good goalie his starting spot.
Nobody blamed Luongo for LA-- but one should be traded regardless-- I would be okay with holding on to both for this season, but it's eventually going to happen, no two ways about it.

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01-25-2013, 07:20 PM
  #32
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90% committed. We were committed to Luongo last year, so never say never.

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01-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Canucks trade Schneider, and Luongo in 2 years turns around and demands a trade (permitted as per his contract) we are completely screwed. I'd say its a safe bet Luongo will be the one traded.
Luongo can demand a trade whenever he wants.

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01-25-2013, 07:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by goodluckchuck View Post
The management should not trade either. They should use this shortened season as audition to see who will be kept going forward.
If they were the same age with similar deals, sure. But they aren't.

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01-25-2013, 08:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Canucks trade Schneider, and Luongo in 2 years turns around and demands a trade (permitted as per his contract) we are completely screwed. I'd say its a safe bet Luongo will be the one traded.
Do you know the mechanics of how a "demands a trade" would work. I mean I can understand he could request a trade and the team doing due diligence to make it happen, but one could not just "demand" to be traded and it would happen. As a Leaf fan (here in peace), I would not want anything to do with his contract, but the Canucks have already heavily invested in the guy and are in the better position to benefit having him on the team. Schneider will get Vancouver back more in assets in this crucial window period (while the Sedins are still elite), to go get the cup.

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01-25-2013, 08:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by goodluckchuck View Post
The management should not trade either. They should use this shortened season as audition to see who will be kept going forward.

So far AV is playing it right. Both goalies deserve to be starter. Luongo was NOT the reason the canucks were eliminated in the playoffs last year. Schneider was in net for game 3 - 5. His record was 1-2. And as i recall he played in net in game 6 of the chicago series so overall his playoff record is 1-3.

The media has overblown this thing out of proportion. And the fan base is too fickle to understand that their overreaction has lost a good goalie his starting spot.
MG has been peddling Lu since the draft day. Long before your 'fickle fan base overreacted'.

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01-25-2013, 08:32 PM
  #37
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No, or else they would have handed Schneider a longer contract than 3 years @ $4M per year. That's term kind of says "Yeah, you've done great, now let's see if you can keep it up before we commit to you long term."

Is Schneider available? Trade rumours have swirled around him for the past two seasons. We know for sure he was until he signed that contract. MG was never happy with the offers he was getting, so he remained a Canuck.

If another team wants him, they'd have to knock MG's socks off with an offer. Given the limited, weak market for goaltenders, I doubt that's going to happen for Schneider. He hasn't proved anything yet in his career. He's only ever won one playoff game, Holtby has proved more in his short career. He's just looked promising in a 1A/1B role last year with Luongo. IMO, there's no way MG gets an offer that would be greater than MG's estimation of Schneider's value to the Canucks.

Before Luongo's trade request, MG often said "Why can't I have two good goalies?" Boston won the cup in the cap era with two starter-level goalies. I think he intended to keep both around. With the media speculation after Schneider's signing, Luongo told MG to deal him if he thought it would help the team. The media has run with this and made it seem like Luongo wants out ASAP and will be a problem in the locker-room. I think he's prefer to remain a Canuck, but he's friends with Schneider and doesn't want to stand in his way of becoming a #1.

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01-25-2013, 08:39 PM
  #38
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as it stands right now, I think MG is doing the right thing, there are teams out there that need a goalie ASAP.

The Leafs need one, but they cannot afford to part with the roster forwards that we want, i.e. Kadri, Grabo because Lupul went down.

The Caps want to compete, but Holtby cannot sustain his stellar play from the playoffs, moreover the team is in disarray trying to learn Oates system on the go. They can use Luongo, and they have the chips to trade with us ie Johansson....or maybe even Forsberg (unlikely)??

Lindback is being ventilated right now in TB, I don't believe he is the answer, Stevie Y did commit to him, but its not like he's a big investment.

Of course there is Philly, we would love to get Briere or Voracek back. And Florida or NYI, the fishsticks are a goalie away from the playoffs. there's a lot of possibilities still.

all in all, there is a market for Luongo the longer we wait. His skills are not eroding anytime soon, and we are deep enough to awkwardly afford to wait til the deadline if need be.

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01-25-2013, 08:43 PM
  #39
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Gillis is as 100% on Schneider as Canucks fans were 100% on Hodgson.

There are three players that will never be moved from the Canucks- the Sedins and Kesler. Everybody else, however unlikely, is fair game.

Luongo might still be the better long-term fit. He's still the better goaltender.. in fact, he's still a top 10 maybe top 5 goalie in the league. For some reason, he's massively underrated despite the fact that he carried us through the latter half of the season.

I think Luongo can still play his career out in Vancouver. I would be bummed to see him go. He has been one of the franchise's best players ever and it's a shame that the city has thrown him under the bus so fast. I've been a critic of him, but at the end of the day, even the Sedins haven't contributed as much to our success as Luongo has since Luongo arrived.

Personally, I think people are just trying to pin the blame on Luongo because they can't accept that the team just isn't as good as everybody makes the team out to be. The Art Ross years won't ever be repeated by the Sedins again- they lost the key to their elevation to elite status when Ehrhoff walked. Kesler was great offensively for two years, but his 41 goal season saw him score about 10% of his goals against playoff teams. The bottom 6 is small, gritty, fast, and can't score. The defense lacks foot-speed and puck-mobility (aside from Ballard who kind of sucks). And now Gillis is supposed to deal a goaltender who helped hide a lot of the team's deficits when he was on, but let the team be exposed if he wasn't?

I've said before, and I'll say again: The reason the Canucks won't win with this crop of players and Vigneault is not that Vigneault is a bad coach, that Gillis is a bad general manager, or that Luongo is a bad goaltender: the reason is that the system that the Canucks play does not match up with the personnel of the team. The biggest reason we were so dominant in 09-10, 10-11? We had Ehrhoff, who was the perfect defenseman for the system! A puck-rushing offensive defenseman who could log big minutes and enter the zone without having to dump the puck in, who could join or lead the rush, and who complimented the Sedins perfectly.

Trading Luongo will be a big mistake.


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01-25-2013, 08:51 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
.....

Before Luongo's trade request, MG often said "Why can't I have two good goalies?" Boston won the cup in the cap era with two starter-level goalies. I think he intended to keep both around. With the media speculation after Schneider's signing, Luongo told MG to deal him if he thought it would help the team. The media has run with this and made it seem like Luongo wants out ASAP and will be a problem in the locker-room. I think he's prefer to remain a Canuck, but he's friends with Schneider and doesn't want to stand in his way of becoming a #1.
This makes sense. Luongo has a NTC and as such is in the driver's seat. He would and should only go to a place that is better than Vancouver in his opinion. The candidates would only be cup contenders (like Vancouver) or for clearly personal reasons like Florida. A team like Toronto (disclaimer: Leaf fan here who is against acquiring the Luongo contract) would make no sense to Luongo. He would make any team better, but even with him Toronto is several players (& likely several years) from being a cup contender. A place that is as good as Vancouver.....is Vancouver!!

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01-25-2013, 09:15 PM
  #41
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When it comes to this subject, nothing would really surprise me anymore.
This. The only thing that is 100% is that when asked any question MG will never give an absolute answer.

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01-25-2013, 11:32 PM
  #42
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This makes sense. Luongo has a NTC and as such is in the driver's seat. He would and should only go to a place that is better than Vancouver in his opinion. The candidates would only be cup contenders (like Vancouver) or for clearly personal reasons like Florida. A team like Toronto (disclaimer: Leaf fan here who is against acquiring the Luongo contract) would make no sense to Luongo. He would make any team better, but even with him Toronto is several players (& likely several years) from being a cup contender. A place that is as good as Vancouver.....is Vancouver!!
Yeah, they aren't contenders right now, but the Leafs aren't afraid to spend money. The Leafs would at least grab one of the bottom playoff spots with Luongo between the pipes, you can pretty much bank on it. Once you make the playoffs, sometimes crazy things happen. LA just won the cup from the 8th seed, and they are back to looking decidedly mediocre.

Also Nonis has a high opinion of Luongo, always has. The cap benefit recapture formula isn't going to kick in for years, and by the time Luongo retires the cap will be much higher, like $85M-$90M range. He isn't overpaid when you look at comparable goaltenders in the league. There's no reason that the contract should scare off a big money team like the Leafs. It's just a myth being pushed by Leafs biased media, especially TSN, to try and talk down his trade value and take pressure off Nonis for not pulling the trigger on the deal and meeting MG's demands.

Florida is only for family considerations, they aren't going to be contender anytime soon, and if he wants to win a cup going there would be a big mistake. Tampa would have been a good fit if Yzerman hadn't derped and go with Lindback. Chicago would be an excellent fit, if there wasn't so much bad blood between the franchises. Edmonton is years away. Washington would be good fit right now, but Luongo would be looking in the rear view for Holtby to take his job. Philadelphia would have to buy out Bryzgalov, and I don't think even Luongo could bail out their terrible D.

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01-26-2013, 12:21 AM
  #43
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It would appear that way, yes. Gillis is a methodical man though. It would not surprise me in the least if Schneider was abruptly traded should a team blow us away. Barring such a scenario, we are likely closing the chapter on the Luongo era.

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01-26-2013, 12:36 AM
  #44
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If Schneider simply maintains the level of play he displayed this year and last, he will be an elite goalie in the nhl. He could be the bedrock of this franchise for the next 15 years, and personally I think unless Gillis was offered an absolutely unrefusable package for him it would be crazy to trade him.

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01-26-2013, 02:58 AM
  #45
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i think that its something that should be considered, answer your question. although schneider has looked great when he has played thus far in his career, luongo has been the best goalie we have ever had and is still a great goaltender.

sticking with the guy we signed long-term to, and trading the other for tangible beneficial assets is something that is worth consideration.

I still think that how this has played out with luongo has made the possibility of keeping luongo and trading schneider an uncomfortable prospect, and barring bad play from schneider, something that cant be seriously considered.

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01-26-2013, 04:02 AM
  #46
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i think that its something that should be considered, answer your question. although schneider has looked great when he has played thus far in his career, luongo has been the best goalie we have ever had and is still a great goaltender.

sticking with the guy we signed long-term to, and trading the other for tangible beneficial assets is something that is worth consideration.

I still think that how this has played out with luongo has made the possibility of keeping luongo and trading schneider an uncomfortable prospect, and barring bad play from schneider, something that cant be seriously considered.
I don't think Luongo necessarily wants off the team, he just wants to be a #1 and doesn't want to stand in Schneider's way of being a #1.

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01-26-2013, 04:41 AM
  #47
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I hope not. At least, not yet. I don't think we should be too hasty in trading the best goalie in franchise history. Give it a little longer before deciding who we'll continue with going forwards. I don't see age as that big of an issue, as we have some solid goaltending prospects as well.
Boy, for someone with 9000 post in less than a year, I would assume you watched the games. Schneider is the younger, quicker, better goalie hands down. Not even close at this point. I do not see how you could have watched last season with them playing back to back games and not see that. Luongo can't even keep himself upright anymore and is always sprawled out and on his stomach.

Gillis promised Schneid the #1 spot end of story.

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01-26-2013, 09:43 AM
  #48
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Yeah, they aren't contenders right now, but the Leafs aren't afraid to spend money. The Leafs would at least grab one of the bottom playoff spots with Luongo between the pipes, you can pretty much bank on it. Once you make the playoffs, sometimes crazy things happen. LA just won the cup from the 8th seed, and they are back to looking decidedly mediocre.

Also Nonis has a high opinion of Luongo, always has. The cap benefit recapture formula isn't going to kick in for years, and by the time Luongo retires the cap will be much higher, like $85M-$90M range. He isn't overpaid when you look at comparable goaltenders in the league. There's no reason that the contract should scare off a big money team like the Leafs. It's just a myth being pushed by Leafs biased media, especially TSN, to try and talk down his trade value and take pressure off Nonis for not pulling the trigger on the deal and meeting MG's demands.

Florida is only for family considerations, they aren't going to be contender anytime soon, and if he wants to win a cup going there would be a big mistake. Tampa would have been a good fit if Yzerman hadn't derped and go with Lindback. Chicago would be an excellent fit, if there wasn't so much bad blood between the franchises. Edmonton is years away. Washington would be good fit right now, but Luongo would be looking in the rear view for Holtby to take his job. Philadelphia would have to buy out Bryzgalov, and I don't think even Luongo could bail out their terrible D.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! If I'm Luongo, I'm thinking staying in Vancouver is still the best option out there....not at all a bad place to play a bit of goal and to be cashing a massive paycheque. Why would I trade this for a place like Toronto which is about as far away from Cup contention as any team could be and does not have any fairer, gentler media or fans than Van. I understand his family reasons for loving Florida, but where is the love for Toronto to be found?

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01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! If I'm Luongo, I'm thinking staying in Vancouver is still the best option out there....not at all a bad place to play a bit of goal and to be cashing a massive paycheque. Why would I trade this for a place like Toronto which is about as far away from Cup contention as any team could be and does not have any fairer, gentler media or fans than Van. I understand his family reasons for loving Florida, but where is the love for Toronto to be found?
This is a key question. Toronto happens to be the highest profile team in need of a goalie upgrade, so I get the impression that the dialogue has snowballed around that to the exception of many other viable options. Many people seem to take for granted that Luongo is going to Toronto and it's just a matter of what the price will be. He may go to Toronto, but there are lots of other possibilities.

This whole trade story has basically been like NHL reality-TV. There's so much drama contrived around the nugget of reality which is this: (for the first time in recorded history) the Canucks arguably have too much depth at goaltender and (not for the first time) the Leafs don't have enough. You have two giant NHL media machines that have leaped on that dialogue and beaten it to absolute death to fill drive-time radio and lockout-time sports columns that it's become built up into this Wizard of Oz (ignore the man behind the curtain) type spectacle that people can't comprehend any end other to than a blockbuster trade that rocks 2 of the largest hockey markets in the NHL.

Personally, I would not be disappointed if Luongo stayed in Vancouver. The Canucks have a pretty solid team, especially when you consider Kesler and Booth hopefully coming back later this year. With the compressed schedule and playoff grind coming shortly, having 2 goalies that can steal you games is valuable. Luongo is not poison to this team, as far as I can tell, and the Canucks are not struggling with the cap yet this season so why not keep him around to spell Schneider when necessary and possibly jump in and rescue us if Schneider struggles? To me, that's reasonable, if not downright wise.

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01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Canucks trade Schneider, and Luongo in 2 years turns around and demands a trade (permitted as per his contract) we are completely screwed. I'd say its a safe bet Luongo will be the one traded.
Schneider becomes a UFA the year after. I'd say that would be a scarier proposition than a potential trade demand.

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Boy, for someone with 9000 post in less than a year, I would assume you watched the games. Schneider is the younger, quicker, better goalie hands down. Not even close at this point. I do not see how you could have watched last season with them playing back to back games and not see that. Luongo can't even keep himself upright anymore and is always sprawled out and on his stomach.

Gillis promised Schneid the #1 spot end of story.
If you didn't notice that Luongo fixed the problem of falling on his stomach last season, and his form was as good as it's ever been except for his leg strength holding the post, which is the only thing Schneider is better at hands down, then maybe you didn't watch the games.

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