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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVII

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:26 PM
  #776
txpd
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carlson. look at green. carlson has a focus problem. he focused his rookie season to establish himself. his second season he was not as focused and sucked. by playoffs he focused and was being mentioned for a norris trophy in coming seasons. now he's lost his focus enough that alzner asked off his pair.

if you trade carlson, you will be sorry. on jan 10 he turned 23. he is a baby. nhl defensemen dont get consistant til they are 25 26 27. daughty sucked wind last season. subban blew dead bears last season. defensemen take time to get it right because its the most difficult position in hockey. offensive defensemen is the hardest by far.

look at mike green. he really has his game together now. it takes time.

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02-11-2013, 02:29 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Do you mean the first 12 games this season? Why not look at the last 26 games he's played? What is your assessment now?

Carlson has looked better with Erskine actually.

Our PK has sucked in large part due to horrible goaltending issues. It makes everyone look bad.
Why are you so defensive about Carlson? He's played like crap so far this year. So have lots of other Caps, but his terrible play sticks out for being especially poor.

I wonder if Wideman put some sort of curse on him before he left town.

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02-11-2013, 02:34 PM
  #778
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up til recently there were regular suggestions that the caps should trade green because carlson made him expendable. remember that?

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02-11-2013, 02:35 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Why are you so defensive about Carlson? He's played like crap so far this year. So have lots of other Caps, but his terrible play sticks out for being especially poor.

I wonder if Wideman put some sort of curse on him before he left town.
I simply believe you need to recalibrate your expectations when it comes to young players playing a position that requires a great deal of experience to master.

Young players struggle from time to time. They are inconsistent. Expect it.

You are panicking and concerned over nothing. This is part of the growth process.

If you look at these past 12 games alone then you are being reactionary. Just relax. He will find his game in the next couple years.

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up til recently there were regular suggestions that the caps should trade green because carlson made him expendable. remember that?
Yeah but that was during the playoffs last year. This is NOW...12 games into a funky strike shortened season. Things change

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #780
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carlson. look at green. carlson has a focus problem. he focused his rookie season to establish himself. his second season he was not as focused and sucked. by playoffs he focused and was being mentioned for a norris trophy in coming seasons. now he's lost his focus enough that alzner asked off his pair.

if you trade carlson, you will be sorry. on jan 10 he turned 23. he is a baby. nhl defensemen dont get consistant til they are 25 26 27. daughty sucked wind last season. subban blew dead bears last season. defensemen take time to get it right because its the most difficult position in hockey. offensive defensemen is the hardest by far.

look at mike green. he really has his game together now. it takes time.
Subban had 36 points and was a +9 on a team that had a -14 goal differential while playing the 2nd toughest minutes on the team.

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02-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Do you mean the first 12 games this season? Why not look at the last 26 games he's played? What is your assessment now?
The first 12 games of this season, plus every other time Alzner and Carlson have been apart. Carlson didn't hit it off in his rookie year until he was paired wtih Alzner. He struggled last year when Boudreau shuffled the pairings mid-season as well. The only period of time in the NHL he has shown anything away from Alzner was the Montreal series, and even then he gave up Montreal's GWG in game 7.

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Carlson has looked better with Erskine actually.
Erskine has done his job on that pairing, Carlson was still sub-par. At least Erskine wasn't getting drawn of position to try and cover up Carlson's mistakes like Alzner was.

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Our PK has sucked in large part due to horrible goaltending issues. It makes everyone look bad.
Green has only given up one goal on the PK all season. Carlson has given up 12. The team as a whole has given up 15. In other words, Carlson has been on the ice for 80% of the goals scored against our PK.

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I simply believe you need to recalibrate your expectations when it comes to young players playing a position that requires a great deal of experience to master.

Young players struggle from time to time. They are inconsistent. Expect it.

You are panicking and concerned over nothing. This is part of the growth process.

If you look at these past 12 games alone then you are being reactionary. Just relax. He will find his game in the next couple years.
Young players struggle but generally show signs of growth. Carlson's regular season play seems to be regressing. Who's to say that he's always going to be able to flip that switch he appears to have in the playoffs? If he keeps this up people are going to be longing for Wideman and Corvo.

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02-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Young players struggle but generally show signs of growth. Carlson's regular season play seems to be regressing. Who's to say that he's always going to be able to flip that switch he appears to have in the playoffs? If he keeps this up people are going to be longing for Wideman and Corvo.
You are seeing ONLY a 12 game stretch.

Why not expand it to 26 games?

Carlson was excellent with a healthy Poti his rookie year vs Monty.

He's an outstanding young player.

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02-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
You are seeing ONLY a 12 game stretch.

Why not expand it to 26 games?

Carlson was excellent with a healthy Poti his rookie year vs Monty.

He's an outstanding young player.
Why are you completely ignoring the rest of his body of work? His play last regular season was nothing to write home about but people gave him the benefit of the doubt because of the "sophomore slump". He had a good playoff showing and has looked worse than ever this season. I want to see signs of growth, not regression. He hasn't earned the level of trust in me that he's apparently earned for you.

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02-11-2013, 02:47 PM
  #785
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Last year Alzner was a +12. Carlson was a -15. How that was even possible I don't know.

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02-11-2013, 02:50 PM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
You are seeing ONLY a 12 game stretch.

Why not expand it to 26 games?

Carlson was excellent with a healthy Poti his rookie year vs Monty.

He's an outstanding young player.
You are seeing ONLY a 14 game stretch played against the same two teams, in which the entire team played the best defense I've ever seen from this group.

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:56 PM
  #787
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Its been hard to read all these posts today fans need to cool it on the these guys forgot how to play hockey talk. Giving up on Carlson now would be the biggest fail this franchise can do.

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02-11-2013, 03:02 PM
  #788
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Tyler Myers?

Can't compare Subban with Carlson. Another poster pointed out the stats and Subban didn't have the benefit of Alzner, Green, Wideman and Hamrlik to help him. He had Josh Gorges and nobody else to help offensively. And he played under the fine microscope that is Montreal. Subban did quite well given his circumstances.

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02-11-2013, 03:11 PM
  #789
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Tyler Myers?

Can't compare Subban with Carlson. Another poster pointed out the stats and Subban didn't have the benefit of Alzner, Green, Wideman and Hamrlik to help him. He had Josh Gorges and nobody else to help offensively. And he played under the fine microscope that is Montreal. Subban did quite well given his circumstances.
you say that like gorges sucks, but yea i agree subban did well

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02-11-2013, 03:12 PM
  #790
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carlson isnt as good as PK subban so he sucks and we need to dump him?

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:14 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
carlson isnt as good as PK subban so he sucks and we need to dump him?
Find me one person in this discussion who said we need to dump Carlson. I'll wait.

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02-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #792
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Find me one person in this discussion who said we need to dump Carlson. I'll wait.
Maybe i miss interpreted the Carlson is paying bad talk. If anything i would replace Calle Johanson before even thinking about moving Carlson.

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02-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #793
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Carlson didn't give up the GWG in game 7. He may have been caught and a forward didnt get back. The forward covering a D pinch was very Bruce and we all know that.

Green our vet was bum rushed on a clear and had a feeble turnover. I even thought that goal was soft. Carlson was long behind the play.

Carlson is fine. I hoped he would hit in the regular season to help his game but since no one does, I am sure he feels like why should I?

Maybe Erskine will help mentor him in that regard.

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02-11-2013, 03:38 PM
  #794
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Carlson didn't give up the GWG in game 7. He may have been caught and a forward didnt get back. The forward covering a D pinch was very Bruce and we all know that.

Green our vet was bum rushed on a clear and had a feeble turnover. I even thought that goal was soft. Carlson was long behind the play.

Carlson is fine. I hoped he would hit in the regular season to help his game but since no one does, I am sure he feels like why should I?

Maybe Erskine will help mentor him in that regard.
Carlson was long behind the play because he skated back like he was going for an uncontested icing call.

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02-11-2013, 03:57 PM
  #795
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I hear a lot of 'this team has no talent' observations so I went back and looked at the last great, regular season, Caps team the '09-'10 Presidents Trophy winning team.

How much more talented was that team than this one?

Backstrom - Backstrom
Morrison - Ribiero
Gordon - Perreault/Johansson
Steckel - Beagle
Ovechkin - Ovechkin
Laich - Laich
Fleischmann - Ward
Chimera - Chimera
Semin - Wolski
Knuble - Brouwer
Fehr - Fehr
Bradley - Hendricks

Green - Green
Schultz - Schultz
Poti - Poti
Morrisonn - Alzner
Erskine - Erskine
Pothier - Carlson

Theodore - Neuvirth
Varlamov - Holtby

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02-11-2013, 03:59 PM
  #796
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Talent isn't the issue. That makes this start even tougher to swallow. This isn't the 2006 Caps.

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02-11-2013, 04:00 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Carlson was long behind the play because he skated back like he was going for an uncontested icing call.
Agreed.

Maybe he thought it was an icing call, Green was ahead of him though.

He may well have been gassed and Ovi'd back. Or, a forward was supposed to be back for him so he stayed high.

We were losing at that point, don't forget.

Laich scored late to make that the eventual GWG

Folks wanted him with Alzner all year, but then put him with Green in a pinch, they have no experience together. Zippy, in case there was a coverage failure.

That play right there is why we need an all situation LD. I hate Ovi moving to LD late in games. Its worked what, one time for a goal?

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02-11-2013, 04:11 PM
  #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I hear a lot of 'this team has no talent' observations so I went back and looked at the last great, regular season, Caps team the '09-'10 Presidents Trophy winning team.

How much more talented was that team than this one?

Backstrom - Backstrom
Morrison - Ribiero
Gordon - Perreault/Johansson
Steckel - Beagle
Ovechkin - Ovechkin
Laich - Laich
Fleischmann - Ward
Chimera - Chimera
Semin - Wolski
Knuble - Brouwer
Fehr - Fehr
Bradley - Hendricks

Green - Green
Schultz - Schultz
Poti - Poti
Morrisonn - Alzner
Erskine - Erskine
Pothier - Carlson

Theodore - Neuvirth
Varlamov - Holtby
Huge falloff there IMO. Semin and Flash are players that can score anytime they have the puck on their sticks. The had the scorers touch when shooting.

Also most of the core had years of learning BBs system coming up together in Hershey. So it wasnt like a bunch of guys trying to learn to play together at pickup hockey.

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02-11-2013, 04:19 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
Huge falloff there IMO. Semin and Flash are players that can score anytime they have the puck on their sticks. The had the scorers touch when shooting.
Sure but Ribiero, Alzner, and Carlson are a good amount better than their counterparts on the previous team.

I'm not saying it is a wash but top to bottom I don't see that much of a difference and certainly not enough to buy the 'Ovechkin and Backstrom are struggling because there is no talent around them' argument that some are selling.

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02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #800
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Last year Alzner was a +12. Carlson was a -15. How that was even possible I don't know.

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