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Is Eric Tangradi officially a bust?

View Poll Results: Is Eric Tangradi a bust?
Yes 101 49.75%
No 15 7.39%
Too Early To Say 87 42.86%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-27-2013, 05:37 AM
  #126
#66
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
It's absolutely true. Twice in the Flyers game Tangradi and Neal started from relatively equal positions and Tangradi beat Neal back to the d-zone on the back check.

But you go ahead and keep beating up on the guy because you need a scapegoat and refuse to admit that the Penguins are .500 because of lackluster play from guys like Malkin, Letang and Fleury. No, it's because Tangradi is a bum.
I can't stand Tangradi and I'll back Jake on this.

I actually think Neal is a meh skater but he's smart about positioning and keeps his feet moving. He can also make plays while moving his feet so its not that much of an issue.

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01-27-2013, 08:25 AM
  #127
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He's terrible. He was no hockey sense. His vision is worse than Dupuis. He's not even good in the AHL. I'm sooooo confused as to what the confusion is about if he's good or not. Did someone see something promising about him in the past 2 years?
He's a winger prospect. The amount of attention he gets around here should tell you how starved for winger prospects Pens fans are.

I have seen nothing from him on the NHL level. People seem to think he'll turn into Kevin Stevens if we just give him 20 minutes of Top 6 ice time for a couple seasons but I've seen nothing to indicate he's anything other than a big body. I think he might make a decent 4th line guy if he'd learn to hit but I don't see his ceiling being much higher than that. Considering how many draft picks never even see the NHL, if he ends up playing in the bottom 6 for awhile I won't consider him a bust, but he's far from being someone we should be excited about.

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01-27-2013, 08:46 AM
  #128
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Bust.

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01-27-2013, 08:46 AM
  #129
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People talk about what he's done at the NHL level, but fact is, he hasn't had a lot of chances to prove anything at the NHL level. You can point to the amount of games he's "played" in, but fact is, until the first 2 games this season, he played 8 mins a game with Craig Adams on the 4th line. Even the 2 games he played with Geno, he didn't have a set spot there and was shifted around a lot. He's had 11, 9, 4, and 9 mins in the last 4 games.

If you want a guy to get better and prove himself, you have to give him time to get in a rhythm. Playing him 2-4 shifts a period where there is no semblance of a rhythm is not the way to go about it. Put him in there, let him make mistakes. At least you can coach a mistake. You can't coach a guy who is sitting on the bench.

I still can't get over people calling a 23 year old player a bust.

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01-27-2013, 09:01 AM
  #130
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I think the frustrating thing with him is that he seems to be worse now than he has been in the past. Not to say he was good in the past, but I seem to remember some ok board play and setting up Adams in the slot some even though nothing ever came of it since . . . well . . . it was Adams in the slot haha.

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01-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
People talk about what he's done at the NHL level, but fact is, he hasn't had a lot of chances to prove anything at the NHL level. You can point to the amount of games he's "played" in, but fact is, until the first 2 games this season, he played 8 mins a game with Craig Adams on the 4th line. Even the 2 games he played with Geno, he didn't have a set spot there and was shifted around a lot. He's had 11, 9, 4, and 9 mins in the last 4 games.

If you want a guy to get better and prove himself, you have to give him time to get in a rhythm. Playing him 2-4 shifts a period where there is no semblance of a rhythm is not the way to go about it. Put him in there, let him make mistakes. At least you can coach a mistake. You can't coach a guy who is sitting on the bench.

I still can't get over people calling a 23 year old player a bust.
Seriously, guys who have had 44 games with less talent has shown more *progress*. How many shifts do you think are in 9/11 minutes? I agree if you're arguing the lone game with 4 minutes, but the dude getting plenty of chances to show this organization what he can do, and for what they want him to do he hasn't shown enough signs he can.

The guy has been in this organization for 4 years, do you not feel he has gotten plenty of chances over those four years? He went from showing some promise to showing absolutely nothing. He has to do something other than sit in front of the goalie.

Last, is this an organization who can wait and use up a roster spot on such a player who's taking longer than the norm? NO.

So for organization purposes he is a bust, but not necessarily a bust in the NHL on another team who can give him the time to adjust.

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01-27-2013, 09:40 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
People talk about what he's done at the NHL level, but fact is, he hasn't had a lot of chances to prove anything at the NHL level. You can point to the amount of games he's "played" in, but fact is, until the first 2 games this season, he played 8 mins a game with Craig Adams on the 4th line. Even the 2 games he played with Geno, he didn't have a set spot there and was shifted around a lot. He's had 11, 9, 4, and 9 mins in the last 4 games.

If you want a guy to get better and prove himself, you have to give him time to get in a rhythm. Playing him 2-4 shifts a period where there is no semblance of a rhythm is not the way to go about it. Put him in there, let him make mistakes. At least you can coach a mistake. You can't coach a guy who is sitting on the bench.

I still can't get over people calling a 23 year old player a bust.
OK so whats he done at the AHL level?

Even at his best, he's just not that good. He's not a Malone or Ladd and he's not mean enough to be a Cooke or Avery type. His A game is Mike Rupp without the fights and big hits. I'm sorry that I can't get all up in arms over that.

He's done nothing but be behind plays and chase pucks around like a kitten. He's not even winning board battles. It drives me insane to see these boards get their nuts twisted over Eric Tangradi.

Where's that kid that high sticked a player from the bench during the WJC? Thats the chip I want to see on his shoulder for 8 mins a night.

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01-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Seriously, guys who have had 44 games with less talent has shown more *progress*. How many shifts do you think are in 9/11 minutes? I agree if you're arguing the lone game with 4 minutes, but the dude getting plenty of chances to show this organization what he can do, and for what they want him to do he hasn't shown enough signs he can.

The guy has been in this organization for 4 years, do you not feel he has gotten plenty of chances over those four years? He went from showing some promise to showing absolutely nothing. He has to do something other than sit in front of the goalie.

Last, is this an organization who can wait and use up a roster spot on such a player who's taking longer than the norm? NO.

So for organization purposes he is a bust, but not necessarily a bust in the NHL on another team who can give him the time to adjust.
It's not about the number of shifts, necessarily, it's about when they occur. I know as a hockey player, I always played better when I was out there every other shift, or every 3rd shift. Asking a guy to play in a rotation, and then sitting him for an extended period of time, and then asking him to start playing again takes a certain character. It's not easy. Joe Vitale has stuck here because he is able to just go out there and play balls to the wall. His game is real easy to play. Dump, chase, hit. Dump, chase, hit. The more watered down a guy's game is, the longer he can sit, and he doesn't really have to have frequency in his shifts.

It's also not easy to be shifted from line to line, and linemate to linemate for some guys. I definitely think Tangradi is one of those, and it will never be easy to play that way for a skilled guy who is playing a skilled position. I think you'd see a very similar thing happen if you did the same thing with Beau Bennet, but maybe not to the same extent because Bennet is more skilled.

I think your expectations are ridiculous. He's not taking longer than normal. He's twenty-****ing-three years old. 23. What kind of expectations are those? Not to mention, a ton of the time he had in Jr, and in the pro, he has had some bad injury luck, which was golden development time that he's missed out on.

For Tangradi, or any top 6 prospect to be successful, you have got to give him regular mins with regular linemates. Something to the tune of 10-12 mins a game where he's playing every 3rd or 4th shift. Not playing every 3rd or 4th shift then sitting for 12 mins, then playing again. Some guys are just rhythm players, and not to sound like a cocky arrogant *****, but some people will just never understand that facet of the game and what it does both physically and mentally to a player who doesn't operate that way because they've never done it, or had to endure it. It was hard for me to play that way when I would be a young guy starting a new level, and I played in a league that wasn't even fractionally as good as the ECHL.

Tangradi has progressed as a player, and if you watched any of the AHL games when we were locked out, you would have seen that. I liked what he was doing. The points didn't always come, but that happens when you play on a **** team. I still like what he was doing and the strides he was making.

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OK so whats he done at the AHL level?

Even at his best, he's just not that good. He's not a Malone or Ladd and he's not mean enough to be a Cooke or Avery type. His A game is Mike Rupp without the fights and big hits. I'm sorry that I can't get all up in arms over that.

He's done nothing but be behind plays and chase pucks around like a kitten. He's not even winning board battles. It drives me insane to see these boards get their nuts twisted over Eric Tangradi.

Where's that kid that high sticked a player from the bench during the WJC? Thats the chip I want to see on his shoulder for 8 mins a night.
I think he played very well at the AHL level this season. It may not have translated to a statsheet, but the games I saw, he was asserting himself physically, opening up space for others on his line, and doing the things that this organization wants him to do.

Malone wasn't that good of a hockey player, IMO. Malone was just given an opportunity to play regardless of how bad he was because of the situation we were in. He played a regular shift in the NHL since day 1 with good players. Even when we were getting good in 2006-07, Malone wasn't good. A ton of people were calling for his ass to be on the chopping block. He was bounced from line to line, and he may have even been scratched a few times if I remember right.

Malone turned the corner when we had no other option to put on Geno's line. We stuck him with Geno, and that was that. For better or worse, Malone was there. He grew as a hockey player, he adapted to Geno and he learned where he need to go to score goals, and what he needed to do to augment Geno's skillset. You saw in our Cup run(s), a guy who finally got it at 28 years old, and he learned what he needed to do to play with a world class player.

And Andrew Ladd moved around a **** ton at the early stages in his career. A lot of people called him a bust, and fanbases grew impatient with him because he wasn't doing what they thought he should be doing at a particular age. Again, when he was given regular mins, with regular linemates where he could grow and adapt, he became a good hockey player.

Tangradi is a skilled hockey player, and I'll always stand by that. Maybe he has run his course here, I don't know, but the opinions some have here of him are unrealistic or just flat out not true. I personally think his problem is that he has never had a chance to adapt, and stick anywhere with any sort of consistency. That's just my opinion though.

I think a bulk of our problem is that Bylsma has an idea in his head of what he wants from specific lines, and I can agree with him. We don't have a line here in Pittsburgh where you can throw young players and allow them to work kinks out. That line is reserve for muckers and grinders where they are being used as a shutdown line.

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01-27-2013, 01:49 PM
  #134
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Great thread. I do not understand the Tangradi hype, the guy has shown next to nothing.

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01-27-2013, 01:55 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
It's not about the number of shifts, necessarily, it's about when they occur. I know as a hockey player, I always played better when I was out there every other shift, or every 3rd shift. Asking a guy to play in a rotation, and then sitting him for an extended period of time, and then asking him to start playing again takes a certain character. It's not easy. Joe Vitale has stuck here because he is able to just go out there and play balls to the wall. His game is real easy to play. Dump, chase, hit. Dump, chase, hit. The more watered down a guy's game is, the longer he can sit, and he doesn't really have to have frequency in his shifts.

It's also not easy to be shifted from line to line, and linemate to linemate for some guys. I definitely think Tangradi is one of those, and it will never be easy to play that way for a skilled guy who is playing a skilled position. I think you'd see a very similar thing happen if you did the same thing with Beau Bennet, but maybe not to the same extent because Bennet is more skilled.

I think your expectations are ridiculous. He's not taking longer than normal. He's twenty-****ing-three years old. 23. What kind of expectations are those? Not to mention, a ton of the time he had in Jr, and in the pro, he has had some bad injury luck, which was golden development time that he's missed out on.

For Tangradi, or any top 6 prospect to be successful, you have got to give him regular mins with regular linemates. Something to the tune of 10-12 mins a game where he's playing every 3rd or 4th shift. Not playing every 3rd or 4th shift then sitting for 12 mins, then playing again. Some guys are just rhythm players, and not to sound like a cocky arrogant *****, but some people will just never understand that facet of the game and what it does both physically and mentally to a player who doesn't operate that way because they've never done it, or had to endure it. It was hard for me to play that way when I would be a young guy starting a new level, and I played in a league that wasn't even fractionally as good as the ECHL.

Tangradi has progressed as a player, and if you watched any of the AHL games when we were locked out, you would have seen that. I liked what he was doing. The points didn't always come, but that happens when you play on a **** team. I still like what he was doing and the strides he was making.



I think he played very well at the AHL level this season. It may not have translated to a statsheet, but the games I saw, he was asserting himself physically, opening up space for others on his line, and doing the things that this organization wants him to do.

Malone wasn't that good of a hockey player, IMO. Malone was just given an opportunity to play regardless of how bad he was because of the situation we were in. He played a regular shift in the NHL since day 1 with good players. Even when we were getting good in 2006-07, Malone wasn't good. A ton of people were calling for his ass to be on the chopping block. He was bounced from line to line, and he may have even been scratched a few times if I remember right.

Malone turned the corner when we had no other option to put on Geno's line. We stuck him with Geno, and that was that. For better or worse, Malone was there. He grew as a hockey player, he adapted to Geno and he learned where he need to go to score goals, and what he needed to do to augment Geno's skillset. You saw in our Cup run(s), a guy who finally got it at 28 years old, and he learned what he needed to do to play with a world class player.

And Andrew Ladd moved around a **** ton at the early stages in his career. A lot of people called him a bust, and fanbases grew impatient with him because he wasn't doing what they thought he should be doing at a particular age. Again, when he was given regular mins, with regular linemates where he could grow and adapt, he became a good hockey player.

Tangradi is a skilled hockey player, and I'll always stand by that. Maybe he has run his course here, I don't know, but the opinions some have here of him are unrealistic or just flat out not true. I personally think his problem is that he has never had a chance to adapt, and stick anywhere with any sort of consistency. That's just my opinion though.

I think a bulk of our problem is that Bylsma has an idea in his head of what he wants from specific lines, and I can agree with him. We don't have a line here in Pittsburgh where you can throw young players and allow them to work kinks out. That line is reserve for muckers and grinders where they are being used as a shutdown line.
I don't deny that Tangradi could be a good role player if he works on his defensive game and grew a pair. I was always kind of hoping he would be a big Matt Cooke. Don't get me wrong I've seen him play at his best but his good games are few and far between.

The thing that drives me absolutely insane is how this board wants this glorified AHL role player to get shifts in the top 6. Then when he does nothing he should move to the bottom 6. He's not good enough defensively for the bottom 6. He can't keep up mentally and even though he's big the guys a flat out *****.

I just don't get the love for this guy. He doesn't need to score to play well but he does need to show a heartbeat. He's done nothing but be big and improve his skating. Thats not good enough. If he's not going to be a skilled guy, he better be harder to play against.

Lets take another case in Beau Bennett. There's a kid thats about skill, poise and stats. Those are the expectation out of him. Thats a kid that you give time to so that he can develope chemistry within the line up. You don't expect him to hit or fight but you want to see him keep his feet moving and getting into position. If he works hard to do the right things and plays smart then you give him time to develope the skilled parts of his game.

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01-27-2013, 07:04 PM
  #136
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OK so whats he done at the AHL level?

Even at his best, he's just not that good. He's not a Malone or Ladd and he's not mean enough to be a Cooke or Avery type. His A game is Mike Rupp without the fights and big hits. I'm sorry that I can't get all up in arms over that.

He's done nothing but be behind plays and chase pucks around like a kitten. He's not even winning board battles. It drives me insane to see these boards get their nuts twisted over Eric Tangradi.

Where's that kid that high sticked a player from the bench during the WJC? Thats the chip I want to see on his shoulder for 8 mins a night.
Very true. We could desperately use that snarl.

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01-27-2013, 07:09 PM
  #137
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Giving credit where credit is due... he looked good against the Sens. Bumping around the net, keeping his feet moving and filling up lanes.

I noticed him today. Thats all I ask.

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01-27-2013, 07:12 PM
  #138
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Giving credit where credit is due... he looked good against the Sens. Bumping around the net, keeping his feet moving and filling up lanes.

I noticed him today. Thats all I ask.
I'll second this.

The Shift lives on for another game.

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01-27-2013, 07:21 PM
  #139
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Giving credit where credit is due... he looked good against the Sens. Bumping around the net, keeping his feet moving and filling up lanes.

I noticed him today. Thats all I ask.
Agreed. He had a couple promising shifts in the third period. Let's see if he can build on it.

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01-27-2013, 07:36 PM
  #140
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Tangradi is a bust because his skills haven't improved beyond a certain point. He's just not a NHL player. I don't understand why people on here have this issue that he needs a shot with Sid or Geno to determine it. If he has the skills, he'll earn the shot which he clearly hasn't done.

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01-28-2013, 01:48 AM
  #141
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For some reason I just came to think of a player I argued we should try and get some years back (2010) when he was in a Tangradi-now-like situation. Unable to convince his then team that he had the ability to make it, and on a bit of elevator duty... until he reached the point that he couldn't be sent down and was instead included in a trade.

That was Teddy Purcell who at that point was 24 and had played 91 games with LA, scoring 8 goals in the process. Now 27, he is a pretty good top6 player for Tampa and has had 50 something and 60 something seasons.

Clearly the onus is on Tangradi to show more, but I'd hate to not spend the time to figure out if its there.

Purcell was traded - along with a 3rd round pick - to bolster LA's 4th line with a rental. Jeff friggin Halpern.

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01-28-2013, 02:12 AM
  #142
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The only thing that's a bust is the way Bylsma has used him.

At this point, I want the team to trade him so the kid can still have a career somewhere before Dan kills his future.

We like to think we know what's going on, but we don't know what Bylsma and the staff is telling the kid. He has skill, but he seems to be trying to be something else. To me it seems like he knows what he can be, but the team wants him to be something else and therein lies the conflict and why most people are confused and fed up with him. Not every 6'4" player needs to be a bruiser.

The kid seems so confused as to what is expected of him, I just want to see the guy gone so he can still salvage his career. I see it so often with kids in my company where a manager tries to turn him into something he or she isn't and then complain about it rather than looking at the persons strengths and building on it. Tangradi worked on his skating, has gotten in better shape, has the pro experience under his belt, yet they want the guy to be a grinder that crashes the net but score.

Anyone that has seen Tangradi from Juniors to AHL...was he ever that kind of guy, consistently?

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01-28-2013, 02:17 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
People talk about what he's done at the NHL level, but fact is, he hasn't had a lot of chances to prove anything at the NHL level. You can point to the amount of games he's "played" in, but fact is, until the first 2 games this season, he played 8 mins a game with Craig Adams on the 4th line. Even the 2 games he played with Geno, he didn't have a set spot there and was shifted around a lot. He's had 11, 9, 4, and 9 mins in the last 4 games.

If you want a guy to get better and prove himself, you have to give him time to get in a rhythm. Playing him 2-4 shifts a period where there is no semblance of a rhythm is not the way to go about it. Put him in there, let him make mistakes. At least you can coach a mistake. You can't coach a guy who is sitting on the bench.

I still can't get over people calling a 23 year old player a bust.

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01-28-2013, 02:52 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
For some reason I just came to think of a player I argued we should try and get some years back (2010) when he was in a Tangradi-now-like situation. Unable to convince his then team that he had the ability to make it, and on a bit of elevator duty... until he reached the point that he couldn't be sent down and was instead included in a trade.

That was Teddy Purcell who at that point was 24 and had played 91 games with LA, scoring 8 goals in the process. Now 27, he is a pretty good top6 player for Tampa and has had 50 something and 60 something seasons.

Clearly the onus is on Tangradi to show more, but I'd hate to not spend the time to figure out if its there.

Purcell was traded - along with a 3rd round pick - to bolster LA's 4th line with a rental. Jeff friggin Halpern.
Endorse, endorse, endorse.

Mind you I really think we're going to struggle to see Tangradi turn into that on this team, I see Tangradi following that same sort of career arc.

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01-28-2013, 08:16 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
For some reason I just came to think of a player I argued we should try and get some years back (2010) when he was in a Tangradi-now-like situation. Unable to convince his then team that he had the ability to make it, and on a bit of elevator duty... until he reached the point that he couldn't be sent down and was instead included in a trade.

That was Teddy Purcell who at that point was 24 and had played 91 games with LA, scoring 8 goals in the process. Now 27, he is a pretty good top6 player for Tampa and has had 50 something and 60 something seasons.

Clearly the onus is on Tangradi to show more, but I'd hate to not spend the time to figure out if its there.

Purcell was traded - along with a 3rd round pick - to bolster LA's 4th line with a rental. Jeff friggin Halpern.
This team doesn't have those years to wait on him, but I do see where you're going with this, are you willing to waste a roster spot for three seasons until he does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
The only thing that's a bust is the way Bylsma has used him.

At this point, I want the team to trade him so the kid can still have a career somewhere before Dan kills his future.

We like to think we know what's going on, but we don't know what Bylsma and the staff is telling the kid. He has skill, but he seems to be trying to be something else. To me it seems like he knows what he can be, but the team wants him to be something else and therein lies the conflict and why most people are confused and fed up with him. Not every 6'4" player needs to be a bruiser.

The kid seems so confused as to what is expected of him, I just want to see the guy gone so he can still salvage his career. I see it so often with kids in my company where a manager tries to turn him into something he or she isn't and then complain about it rather than looking at the persons strengths and building on it. Tangradi worked on his skating, has gotten in better shape, has the pro experience under his belt, yet they want the guy to be a grinder that crashes the net but score.

Anyone that has seen Tangradi from Juniors to AHL...was he ever that kind of guy, consistently?
The problem is that Tangradi did do the crash and bang + fight with skill, and the team tore him down and built him up to be a more skilled power forward removing fighting from his card. He essentially got neutered. Now this might have been from his hand incident for the reasoning, but I would have preferred they left him alone and just instilled better defense responsibility into his game.

They really messed this kid up, and he's not even a kid anymore.

I hope it all works out for him, but the way things are going that probably will be with another team. Didn't have to be that way.

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01-28-2013, 09:11 AM
  #146
sovietsanta87
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How much ice time does Tangradi need before he stops falling the moment someone touches him? He's 6'4 225, have you ever seen him win a puck in the corner?

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01-28-2013, 09:20 AM
  #147
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I always have to laugh when people blame an organisation if a players flames out and never has an NHL career. This is ALWAYS on the player, ALWAYS. If you're good, you'll make it, it's that simple. And if your mentally so down because you don't think you got the chance you deserved, then you weren't gonna make it anyways.

Granted, Tangradi has not flamed out yet and still has a chance to have an NHL career, I just don't see it. There's nothing that stands out, to me, he just doesn't have IT. Sure, maybe he'll make big strides during the next 2 years, that would surprise me though. Not because it hasn't happend before, but all these other "power forwards who didn't hit their stride until they're mid 20's" at least showed SOMETHING. You could see it was there, they just weren't good defensively and had yet to put it all together, but flashing their talent here and there. Does Tangradi have ONE SINGLE play at the NHL level that made you go, "Wow, he does have talent"? He's a bid dude who skates ok, but his reaction and movement in tight space is so slow and he doesn't seem to have anykind of hockey sense. And to me, hockey sense is the most important skill.

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01-28-2013, 09:23 AM
  #148
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I don't know why so many had such high expectations for him. He was a second round pick and a throw in. He instantly became one of our best prospects only because of how pathetic our other prospects were. The comparisons started out saying he'd be the next Kevin Strvens, then Ryan Malone. Now if he can become a Dave Roche type player, we'd be lucky.

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01-28-2013, 09:26 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I don't know why so many had such high expectations for him. He was a second round pick and a throw in. He instantly became one of our best prospects only because of how pathetic our other prospects were. The comparisons started out saying he'd be the next Kevin Strvens, then Ryan Malone. Now if he can become a Dave Roche type player, we'd be lucky.
Because every player the Pens draft (or acquire) from the 1st and even the 2nd round is a can't miss prospect.

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01-28-2013, 09:31 AM
  #150
Milliardo
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Because every player the Pens draft (or acquire) from the 1st and even the 2nd round is a can't miss prospect.
Yep, I mean all of our defensmen will pan out, what are we going to do when 2 top 4 defensmen join the big Pens every year?

That said, the word bust is nothing bad. Sometimes, a young man just doens't make it as a hockey player. That's ok.

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