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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 4.0

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Old
02-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #601
Aceekay
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Freaking Nashville! That's now 5 overtime losses in 15 games. They're screwing us!!!
Shades of Florida, loser point is really killing the value of that pick.

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02-17-2013, 02:57 AM
  #602
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I've seen Mantha play 4-5 times this year and have come away unimpressed with him every time. He loses most one-on-one battles, took bad decisions with the puck, and I've seen him more than once charge defensemen from behind, and it was as if nothing happened. They barely reacted. He's got to be the weakest big body player I've seen. Yet he's managed to score pretty much every game I've seen. I wouldn't take a chance on him in the first round, even with all his potential.

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02-17-2013, 04:12 AM
  #603
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Jordan Subban had a hat trick and an assist for Belleville last night. His goals were of the big shot variety and his assist was on an end-to-end rush.

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02-17-2013, 04:32 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by makbowles View Post
Freaking Nashville! That's now 5 overtime losses in 15 games. They're screwing us!!!
At least Calgary is making sure we get a pick early in the 2nd

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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
I've seen Mantha play 4-5 times this year and have come away unimpressed with him every time. He loses most one-on-one battles, took bad decisions with the puck, and I've seen him more than once charge defensemen from behind, and it was as if nothing happened. They barely reacted. He's got to be the weakest big body player I've seen. Yet he's managed to score pretty much every game I've seen. I wouldn't take a chance on him in the first round, even with all his potential.
So imagine, once he becomes stronger physically, how hard it will be to get the puck away from him. Imagine Eric Staal minus the defensive acumen and center capabilities. That's scary. We don't have anyone coming down the pipe with the same skillset. He scores goals a plenty, he can skate and he can get away from coverage with ease. If he'd hit everything skating, was a genius with the puck and was a center, he'd go 1st overall. He has his weaknesses, but he's a type of guy we need. We can't just spit on him if he's there at 20, let alone 15. A Québecker 6'4 goal scorer? Consider it done if that's what happens

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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Jordan Subban had a hat trick and an assist for Belleville last night. His goals were of the big shot variety and his assist was on an end-to-end rush.
How does he look playing against bigger forwards? Has he been improving his game? Is he a training freak like P.K.? I've got to say I liked his game at the Prospects game but that's very small sample to evaluate. You know those end-to-end rushes won't cut it in the NHL, but it means he has a scary footspeed, which means he'll be able to move the puck out of the zone like his brother does. But the questions with him aren't puck movement nor offensive potential, but rather physical and defensive.

I believe the knocks on him really are that he's not as big as PK or Malcolm, and that's what might hurt him down the road. I understand Jordan doesn't have the numbers Ryan Ellis had at the same age, but it didn't seem to be a problem (size) for scouts back then. Anyone has seen both in their draft year to compare? Sadly I only saw Ellis play at the WJC, but I remember him being used with PK on the PP solely.


Last edited by QuebecPride: 02-17-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 05:20 AM
  #605
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How does he look playing against bigger forwards? Has he been improving his game? Is he a training freak like P.K.? I've got to say I liked his game at the Prospects game but that's very small sample to evaluate. You know those end-to-end rushes won't cut it in the NHL, but it means he has a scary footspeed, which means he'll be able to move the puck out of the zone like his brother does. But the questions with him aren't puck movement nor offensive potential, but rather physical and defensive.

I believe the knocks on him really are that he's not as big as PK or Malcolm, and that's what might hurt him down the road. I understand Jordan doesn't have the numbers Ryan Ellis had at the same age, but it didn't seem to be a problem (size) for scouts back then. Anyone has seen both in their draft year to compare? Sadly I only saw Ellis play at the WJC, but I remember him being used with PK on the PP solely.
Jordan relies a lot on his speed against bigger forwards as they really cannot skate with him. He's a very strong kid for his size because of his training (also trains at LPS, see below)..and does so as frequently as PK hits the gym. I definitely can see Jordan having a bit of a Bouillion frame (short but strong for his size).

He's better than PK was defensively at the same age and is probably as physical. Ellis mans the PP better but I like Jordan's 5-on-5 game a lot better. He's as fast as anyone and when you watch him, you can only be reminded of PK.

I think if he continues to work on his defensive game and continues to get stronger, he has a NHL future ahead of him. How good will he be? Well that depends on if he can adapt, just like PK had to and has done. I think he's worth taking a flyer on with either our second or Nashville's.





For comparisons sake:

PK Subban - 15 Goals, 41 Assists, 56 Points
Jordan Subban - 18 Goals, 34 Assists, 52 Points (pace)
Ryan Ellis - 22 Goals, 67 Assists, 89 Points (in 57 games)

These are the three players numbers in their draft year. However, lets keep in mind something. Ryan Ellis played with the likes of Taylor Hall, Adam Henrique and Greg Nemisz and was largely more productive on the PP. PK had one of the top scorers in Tyler Donati, Shawn Matthias and Matt Beleskey among others on one of the top offensive teams in the league. Until the recent acquisitions of Tyler Graovac and Alan Quine, the Belleville Bulls were among the worst offensive squads in the league with Gaunce and Zharkov proving inconsistent for most of the season. It was Subban leading the offensive charge for the squad, which is something neither of the other two had to do.


Last edited by chaosrevolver: 02-17-2013 at 05:31 AM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 05:27 AM
  #606
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I don't get what's happening in the picture with the ropes?

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02-17-2013, 05:34 AM
  #607
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I don't get what's happening in the picture with the ropes?
They are battling ropes.



1:41

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02-17-2013, 05:54 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post

For comparisons sake:

PK Subban - 15 Goals, 41 Assists, 56 Points
Jordan Subban - 18 Goals, 34 Assists, 52 Points (pace)
Ryan Ellis - 22 Goals, 67 Assists, 89 Points (in 57 games)

These are the three players numbers in their draft year. However, lets keep in mind something. Ryan Ellis played with the likes of Taylor Hall, Adam Henrique and Greg Nemisz and was largely more productive on the PP. PK had one of the top scorers in Tyler Donati, Shawn Matthias and Matt Beleskey among others on one of the top offensive teams in the league. Until the recent acquisitions of Tyler Graovac and Alan Quine, the Belleville Bulls were among the worst offensive squads in the league with Gaunce and Zharkov proving inconsistent for most of the season. It was Subban leading the offensive charge for the squad, which is something neither of the other two had to do.
You make a pretty good point. These Belleville Bulls are nowhere near PK's or Ellis' Spitfires. The Spits won the Memorial cup that year. While the Bulls were on the verge of reaching it the following year. Can't say the same about Jordan's team. I think I'd still give an edge to Ellis, the fact that he made the WJC at 17, as a Defenceman, is impressive, let alone his ridiculous numbers.

PK really had trouble defensively in his draft year, or actually, didn't play a defensive game at all. For him, the best defense was offense. I don't think it was due to a bad hockey sense, but rather because he wanted to score and rush the puck all the time. Which he corrected along the road to the show.


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Old
02-17-2013, 06:28 AM
  #609
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You make a pretty good point. These Belleville Bulls are nowhere near PK's or Ellis' Spitfires. The Spits won the Memorial cup that year. While the Bulls were on the verge of reaching it the following year. Can't say the same about the same about Jordan's team. I think I'd still give an edge to Ellis, the fact that he made the WJC at 17, as a Defenceman, is impressive, let alone his ridiculous numbers.

PK really had trouble defensively in his draft year, or actually, didn't play a defensive game at all. For him, the best defense was offense. I don't think it was due to a bad hockey sense, but rather because he wanted to score and rush the puck all the time. Which he corrected along the road to the show.
While Jordan's Bulls look poised for a good run their team has been mostly based on the play of their goalies and their defense, until of late. Their recent acquisitions have bolstered Belleville's offense significantly.

I would also give the edge to Ellis offensively, but I could definitely see Jordan's game translating like PK if he continues to improve like his oldest brother did.

While I would agree about PK, his angles and decision-making were awful in his draft year. I remember watching him with my dad (had season tickets) and we always saw a PP specialist and were shocked the next year when his defense had improved so much. His one-on-one game was always solid cause no one could skate around him, but his angles and his sometimes careless nature led to many thinking he'd never be able to be anything good in his own end. If someone told me five years ago that PK Subban would eventually turn into a two-way hockey stud in the NHL, I would have laughed in their faces.

I easily could see Jordan being effective despite his size. He isn't weak on his skates and can absolutely fly. He can pass the puck better than PK could at the same age and bolsters a more accurate, though admittedly not as powerful, slapshot.

At the same age:

Skating -> Even
Slapshot Power -> PK
Slapshot Accuracy -> Jordan
Wristshot -> Even
Defense -> Jordan
Physicality -> PK
Puck-moving -> PK (I think his rushing the puck is stronger and they both can be careless being too aggressive)
Passing -> Jordan (Much crisper and more accurate, especially in the offensive zone)

However, PK improved drastically over the next few seasons so it will be up to Jordan to do similar.

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:51 AM
  #610
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I'd like the habs to do everything they can to draft Jordan Subban.

For Mantha... I foresee him being picked by the Bruins.

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02-17-2013, 10:38 AM
  #611
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I want Jordan Subban on this team. Take him as high as the second round if need be.

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02-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #612
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I know he has slowed down a bit, but William Carrier seem like a good fit for one of our 2nd round picks.

He seems to have pretty much all the tools for the NHL, but when playing with one of the worst team in Canada, it is difficult to rack up points.

Does anyone have infos about him or where he's ranked for the upcomming draft? He seems to be under the radar right now.

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02-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #613
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02-17-2013, 11:35 AM
  #614
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No way we get him at this rate, but wow:


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02-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  #615
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I know he has slowed down a bit, but William Carrier seem like a good fit for one of our 2nd round picks.

He seems to have pretty much all the tools for the NHL, but when playing with one of the worst team in Canada, it is difficult to rack up points.

Does anyone have infos about him or where he's ranked for the upcomming draft? He seems to be under the radar right now.
Carrier might be there for our 3rd 2nd rounder or even our 3rd rounder if he is out for the year.

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02-17-2013, 02:24 PM
  #616
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No way we get him at this rate, but wow:

I'd take Barkov 1st overall from the little I've seen.

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02-17-2013, 02:51 PM
  #617
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All i want for this draft, is a Big, tough and talented powerforward.

Thank you.

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02-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #618
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I've seen Mantha play 4-5 times this year and have come away unimpressed with him every time. He loses most one-on-one battles, took bad decisions with the puck, and I've seen him more than once charge defensemen from behind, and it was as if nothing happened. They barely reacted. He's got to be the weakest big body player I've seen. Yet he's managed to score pretty much every game I've seen. I wouldn't take a chance on him in the first round, even with all his potential.
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Carrier might be there for our 3rd 2nd rounder or even our 3rd rounder if he is out for the year.
Quote:
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All i want for this draft, is a Big, tough and talented powerforward.

Thank you.
I have been calling for the Habs to draft Gauthier,Mantha & Carrier all season long and it appears the chances may be good that the Habs could do just that.Leaving a 2nd round pick for Johnathan Diaby or possibly another forward like Emile Poirier/Justin Bailey/Laurent Dauphin.Then the 3rd round pick could be Samuel Morin LD or Samuel Henley RW both love to hit and skate well for big players.That could make the Habs draft an almost all Francophone draft for another first for the Habs.

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02-17-2013, 03:34 PM
  #619
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I have been calling for the Habs to draft Gauthier,Mantha & Carrier all season long and it appears the chances may be good that the Habs could do just that.Leaving a 2nd round pick for Johnathan Diaby or possibly another forward like Emile Poirier/Justin Bailey/Laurent Dauphin.Then the 3rd round pick could be Samuel Morin LD or Samuel Henley RW both love to hit and skate well for big players.That could make the Habs draft an almost all Francophone draft for another first for the Habs.
gauthier and Mantha aren't tough. Yes, they are big, but tough? No.

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02-17-2013, 04:40 PM
  #620
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gauthier and Mantha aren't tough. Yes, they are big, but tough? No.
Toughness wins hockey games.

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02-17-2013, 05:57 PM
  #621
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Toughness wins hockey games.
It helps.

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02-17-2013, 06:09 PM
  #622
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I really like what I've seen from Josh Morrissey, but that doesn't seem like a possibility right now.

Burakovsky could be a possibility at the Habs current draft position. It'd be nice to have a skilled Swedish winger duo up front.

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02-17-2013, 09:55 PM
  #623
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gauthier and Mantha aren't tough. Yes, they are big, but tough? No.
They are however talented,Carrier,Bailey,Poirier and Henley are a little of each and Diaby/Morin can make up the difference from the defence.I don't want a team of brawlers just a good blend of talent with size that can hold their own piece of ice,with the muscle on defence to back their play.

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02-17-2013, 10:10 PM
  #624
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They are however talented,Carrier,Bailey,Poirier and Henley are a little of each and Diaby/Morin can make up the difference from the defence.I don't want a team of brawlers just a good blend of talent with size that can hold their own piece of ice,with the muscle on defence to back their play.
Mantha compete level is not that great. I see Benoit Pouliot when i watch him...

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02-17-2013, 11:24 PM
  #625
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At least Calgary is making sure we get a pick early in the 2nd



So imagine, once he becomes stronger physically, how hard it will be to get the puck away from him. Imagine Eric Staal minus the defensive acumen and center capabilities. That's scary. We don't have anyone coming down the pipe with the same skillset. He scores goals a plenty, he can skate and he can get away from coverage with ease. If he'd hit everything skating, was a genius with the puck and was a center, he'd go 1st overall. He has his weaknesses, but he's a type of guy we need. We can't just spit on him if he's there at 20, let alone 15. A Québecker 6'4 goal scorer? Consider it done if that's what happens



How does he look playing against bigger forwards? Has he been improving his game? Is he a training freak like P.K.? I've got to say I liked his game at the Prospects game but that's very small sample to evaluate. You know those end-to-end rushes won't cut it in the NHL, but it means he has a scary footspeed, which means he'll be able to move the puck out of the zone like his brother does. But the questions with him aren't puck movement nor offensive potential, but rather physical and defensive.

I believe the knocks on him really are that he's not as big as PK or Malcolm, and that's what might hurt him down the road. I understand Jordan doesn't have the numbers Ryan Ellis had at the same age, but it didn't seem to be a problem (size) for scouts back then. Anyone has seen both in their draft year to compare? Sadly I only saw Ellis play at the WJC, but I remember him being used with PK on the PP solely.
I wouldn't hold it against the Habs organization if they went in that direction, but I consider him to be a boom or bust type of player. Some guys never learn what to do with their big frames, and he might never get it. It's no coincidence he's ranked 17th on TSN in spite of his gaudy numbers. In my mind there are too many ifs with Mantha to draft him in the top 15-20 with so much talent around. I'd rather draft a player like Erne, Wennberg, or Gauthier in the same spot, as they've shown higher compete levels while MAYBE having less potential.


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