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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:44 AM
  #651
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Is that when Jeffrey misses a shot on net and gets benched for the rest of the period?
Removed as full time winger.

If figure in the first 24:13, he gets pretty much every ES shift with Malkin and Neal.

Then, in the second, Ben Lovejoy will try the stretch pass to Jeffrey, who 'shockingly' will have two guys near him as the puck approaches (that Torts guy, you should know, has some of the most psychic players in hockey). Jeffrey will be banged as he tries to chip an otherwise perfectly 'untelegraphed' pass. The chip won't get deep, the Rangers will counter and score, and that will be it for Jeffrey.

The missed shot will come in the first. That will be his warning. After all, a guy like Bylsma believes in giving the young guys ONE chance, sometimes even TWO.

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:45 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I will agree about Cooke/Sutter/TK. They are meant to be together. They could grind lines down and play defense against the best of them. Then you can send out the 4th of Vitale, Adams, and Glass easily.

My hatred for DB is going to reach a level higher than MT...and that's near impossible. MT would respect a guy like Vitale for busting his balls night in/night out. That legend/God/whatever you want to call him has drawn a few penalties this year and changed momentum around a bunch. I hate that he gets the shaft from time to time. It's beyond ridiculous.

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01-31-2013, 08:46 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
The thing about coaches like Therrien though is that they just wear out their players after two or three seasons. They smother talent with system. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rangers players turned against Torts in the near future for similar reasons. Hell, even Therrien didn't implement a six goalie system.

Personally, I think there are two major things the coaching staff needs to do:
1.) Stop ****ing up line combinations and go with what works.
2.) You're probably tired of hearing me say it, but bring in someone else to run the PP.

The rest is up to the players to play better.
No offense, but the issues with coaching go beyond hiring a PP coach and line juggling.

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01-31-2013, 08:49 AM
  #654
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If figure in the first 24:13, he gets pretty much every ES shift with Malkin and Neal.
What brand of glue did you use this morning?

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01-31-2013, 08:50 AM
  #655
UnderratedBrooks44
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It really can't be overstated how much of a cop out it is when they go down a goal and he throws Crosby and Malkin out there together. The problem now is that without Staal the scoring depth is MUCH more depleted for the next 2-3 shifts. Honestly they really shouldn't do it much at all anymore, but that's his plan any time thigns go awry so......

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01-31-2013, 08:54 AM
  #656
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Andy Murry or Dave King within a week....

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01-31-2013, 08:55 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
It really can't be overstated how much of a cop out it is when they go down a goal and he throws Crosby and Malkin out there together. The problem now is that without Staal the scoring depth is MUCH more depleted for the next 2-3 shifts. Honestly they really shouldn't do it much at all anymore, but that's his plan any time thigns go awry so......
He does that so Steigy and Erey can start screaming: Here comes two headed monster

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01-31-2013, 09:21 AM
  #658
Florentino Ariza
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Hey, great points. It's all on the roster.

By the way, what was Michel Therrien's roster like the day he was fired? Were you crying over that, that ALL (the issues) could be traced back to the roster? Sykora, Satan, Fedotenko, Dupuis is what Therrien had to complete his top six. Gonchar had just returned from injury. Sid played January and part of February 2009 with a strained groin. In spite of all this, Therrien was 7-7-1 in his last 15 games. But, along with surprising wins against good teams came inexplicable efforts against weaker teams.

Then again, maybe you're right. It's ALL about the personnel with this team, because if Bylsma was the right coach at one moment in time four years ago, then he surely must be at this moment in time.
I pointed out that they are capable of playing very well despite the flaws in the roster because they have two superstars. They are also capable of playing poorly and it's partially because there is nobody to provide any offense. It's also because the power play is awful, which is partially an issue of what they've got and partially a coaching one. My point is, it's not just (or even mainly) Bylsma here. There is plenty of blame to go around. They're playing really poorly and they'll play really well again soon. The flaws in the roster are always there in the background and as soon as Malkin & Crosby start giving lay-ups to the other team in the form of bad passes and the defense's confidence breaks down, those flaws are exposed and they play with no heart. There is nobody other than Malkin or Crosby that can spark them.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:26 AM
  #659
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How long do you give Bylsma?

We've all been discussing Bylsma' flaws and his strengths but how long do you give him to sort the team out this season?

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01-31-2013, 09:29 AM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
It really can't be overstated how much of a cop out it is when they go down a goal and he throws Crosby and Malkin out there together. The problem now is that without Staal the scoring depth is MUCH more depleted for the next 2-3 shifts. Honestly they really shouldn't do it much at all anymore, but that's his plan any time thigns go awry so......
It may have been coincidental, but I felt like he didn't do it as much the last few games.
Like you said, in tight games, given the state of the rest of our offense it seems to be a more counterproductive move than ever before, not to mention putting them together has not been a success so far (scoring wise), I've not even had this impression than they were generating that much more chances than the Whoever-Malkin-Neal line.
But that's something Bylsma may have noticed as well : according to behindthenet, they've been together 5on5 only about 15% of the time.
I know 6 games is a small sample size, but so far it's the lowest it's ever been.

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01-31-2013, 09:29 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
We've all been discussing Bylsma' flaws and his strengths but how long do you give him to sort the team out this season?
15 games max. If we're hovering around .500 hockey by then, we need a change. That leaves us enough time to salvage a playoff spot.

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01-31-2013, 09:32 AM
  #662
Le Magnifique 66
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Keep him and draft Seth Jones

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01-31-2013, 09:33 AM
  #663
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If they lay an egg against the Rangers tonight, I'll be waiting for the axe to fall at any time, to be honest.

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01-31-2013, 09:36 AM
  #664
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If they lay an egg against the Rangers tonight, I'll be waiting for the axe to fall at any time, to be honest.
I kind of agree, tonight and this weekend will say a lot especially if we would lose in Washington on Sunday

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01-31-2013, 09:38 AM
  #665
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I say let him ride out the season, playoffs included, and see where it goes. If they go deep into the playoffs (past the conference semis), he'll be back again without question.

If this team flops in the first round again, I'm sure he'll be put on notice if not fired. If they were to lose in the first round again, that would be three consecutive years. You could also call it four consecutive years without even seeing a conference final, which is inexcusable considering the talent that these rosters have carried. That might be acceptable if you're an 7-8 seed but for a team that is regularly considered a Cup contender and has two of the best players in the world, first round exits should not be the norm.

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01-31-2013, 09:44 AM
  #666
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Yeah, I think with the shortened season, the excuse is that he didn't have enough time with the team, and it's a valid point really (I know not all teams are struggling, I'm just saying it's a reason to keep him).

Also, I know he has some great talent to work with in Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, etc. But having to put guys like Tangradi, Jeffrey, Kennedy and even Dupuis in the top 6? Come on.

I would give Bylsma another full year after this shortened season with a potentially improved roster. I would give Ray Shero a chance to make some moves this off season to improve this team and maybe have some prospects make the team (like Bennett and Dumoulin)

If next year, we have the same struggles, (some think we will) then you let him go at that point, because there is no excuses then.

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01-31-2013, 09:45 AM
  #667
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If they some how manage to go on a losing streak from now until Sunday. 4-game skid could cost him his job. I think they'll be alright, so will Bylsma. There has to be a change to his gameplan. They've been doing the same thing for almost four years now, and at first it worked. Now it's just insanity.

Probably though, Dan will be enjoying the superbowl and frickin' Shero will call him up to break his heart.

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01-31-2013, 09:57 AM
  #668
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Our next 5 games are important for us as 3 of them are in house division games. Rangers, Devils, Capitals, Islanders, Capitals. If we fail to win at least 3 of those games. Then it'd be close to firing time.

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01-31-2013, 09:58 AM
  #669
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If we go 0-3 this weekend, that's a big hole to climb out of unless you do something soon. I'd imagine a personnel change will come first though.

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01-31-2013, 10:03 AM
  #670
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Should've fired him last year. Seems like a cool guy but you could tell that coaches were out-coaching him last year and the Pens were much crisper in execution under Therrien.

Maybe Bylsma letting the reins loose was what they needed to win the cup that year but they're too loose and have been too loose for a long time now.

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01-31-2013, 10:13 AM
  #671
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I voted 15 because I think that's about the window he has, but yah, probably last summer was the right time.

Just watched those In The Room episodes... watch his little speech before the Black and White game. I don't know if that's the way he always is (suspect so), but there's just nothing there. A string of monotone cliches and feel-good phrases in there. Maybe on the ice in practice he can connect with the guys, but the room seemed dead.

These guys just came off a 4 month lockout, they're back doing what they love and it sounded like a mid-summer practice. I think this might be one of those cases where the coach has lost the players not because they don't like him but because he can't motivate them any longer unless it's a big rivalry game. This year's results seem to bare that out... and if we play well again tonight and then struggle against our next mediocre opponent... not sure what other conclusion you could draw.


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01-31-2013, 10:17 AM
  #672
zhenyas most fly rep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Hey, great points. It's all on the roster.

By the way, what was Michel Therrien's roster like the day he was fired? Were you crying over that, that ALL (the issues) could be traced back to the roster? Sykora, Satan, Fedotenko, Dupuis is what Therrien had to complete his top six. Gonchar had just returned from injury. Sid played January and part of February 2009 with a strained groin. In spite of all this, Therrien was 7-7-1 in his last 15 games. But, along with surprising wins against good teams came inexplicable efforts against weaker teams.

Then again, maybe you're right. It's ALL about the personnel with this team, because if Bylsma was the right coach at one moment in time four years ago, then he surely must be at this moment in time.
Well you got me interested so I took a quick look at some of the games I had from this period (all of the victories, including a drop of the puck ceremony by Jeff Reed in a Mario jersey at the start of the memorable Tampa 'Malkin's thousand dollars on the board' game)

First thing, Fedotenko was injured for about a month from early january to that infamous Leafs game. For Sarge, that game was his first of the season.
Right before that game the lines looked something like this :
Dupuis-Crosby-Kennedy
Cooke-Malkin-Sykora
Caputi-Staal-Satan
Well you know how Therrien liked to juggle the lines so don't put too much stock in those particular lines but you get the general idea.
on D :
Gill-Scuderi
Orpik-Whitney
Eaton-Letang
Ah ah that looks better on paper that what we have now even without Gonch.(obviously Letang not at the same level, and I kinda remember the Orpik-Whitney pairing being quite bad)

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01-31-2013, 10:19 AM
  #673
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Voted 30 for the hell of it as I think if it happens it will be around desperation time.

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01-31-2013, 10:20 AM
  #674
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I want to say that its a toss up for me because I like how Disco handles the team and himself. I just really, REALLY hate this system and the way the teams built.

I can't stand over active defensemen.

I hate a zone defense that has two defensemen lumped together most of the time.

I detest the open backdoor on MAF all the GD time.

I hate the go go go shoot shoot shoot mentality and lack of poise.

I hate that he's coined the phrase of POP but we rarely see it.

I want to vomit all over a PP that is about working the puck to the point and throwing it on net. I think I've broken a cell phone and a remote watching that garbage over the years. ITs so GD simple that bad teams fall back on it when things aren't working.

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01-31-2013, 10:22 AM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
I kind of agree, tonight and this weekend will say a lot especially if we would lose in Washington on Sunday
Yeah, if the tema plays as bad the next few games as they did last game, he'll be gone sooner rather than later. With the shortened season, 15 games is too long to wait.

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