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FC Releases January Ranking for 2013 NHL Draft

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:10 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
And exactly how many viewings (let alone LIVE) of Mr. Lazar do you have under your belt out there in Richmond Hill?
Haha I love how this card always gets pulled when someone has nothing legit to say. I have watched the oil kings and whl in general quite a lot when the lock out was on. Unless his play literally changed from night to day since the nhl season started I stand by my argument

Also to the other guy, yes I agree he will be picked before klimchuck but I doubt it's the right decision long term

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01-27-2013, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Haha I love how this card always gets pulled when someone has nothing legit to say. I have watched the oil kings and whl in general quite a lot when the lock out was on. Unless his play literally changed from night to day since the nhl season started I stand by my argument

Also to the other guy, yes I agree he will be picked before klimchuck but I doubt it's the right decision long term
This is what you said.....

Quote:
Curtis lazar above klimchuck is really weird to me.
Now you are saying you think Lazar WILL be picked ahead of Klimchuk?


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 01-28-2013 at 12:18 AM. Reason: flaming
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01-27-2013, 11:27 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Haha I love how this card always gets pulled when someone has nothing legit to say. I have watched the oil kings and whl in general quite a lot when the lock out was on. Unless his play literally changed from night to day since the nhl season started I stand by my argument

Also to the other guy, yes I agree he will be picked before klimchuck but I doubt it's the right decision long term
Define 'quite a lot' and I'm fully assuming none of those viewings were live?

I'm sure there is a legit argument for Klimchuk over Lazar, but I don't see how you can make it with any credibility if you don't have the viewings to back it up. That's all I'm saying.

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01-27-2013, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Care to elaborate on the bolded?

Seems like a lot of vague mumbo jumbo.

Btw he is currently tied for second in goals on the Oil Kings, a team with a lot of pretty good offensive players, all of whom are older than Lazar.
It isn't mumbo jumbo. "Creating space" is what is reads like, the ability to create room for himself to make plays and scoring opportunities.

That could include elusiveness to dodge defenders, that could include strength to drive back defenders and closer to the net, or it could include the elite top speed to blow past defenders, something you call "seperation speed".

Again, it is from limited viewings so I will repeat that my opinion is by no means concrete and set in stone. However, I do want to play devil's advocate to create a debate and I will understand if others have similar concerns.

Lazar is a great player on the forecheck and the PK, because he causes turnovers, causes the other team to make mistakes, and can keep the offensive zone clock going. His shot compliments this nicely as he can capitalize on those turnovers.

But he isn't an elusive skater, nor does he have a huge frame or dominant strength to drive players back. While he has great acceleration, his top speed (from my viewing) wasn't quite elite yet.

I'll leave it at that as I can feel this discussion getting slightly overheated. But I do want to say, while maybe not a fair comparison, guys like Mike Fischer have made an excellent career being great forechecking player without possessing top line seperation skills.

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01-27-2013, 01:46 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
It isn't mumbo jumbo. "Creating space" is what is reads like, the ability to create room for himself to make plays and scoring opportunities.

That could include elusiveness to dodge defenders, that could include strength to drive back defenders and closer to the net, or it could include the elite top speed to blow past defenders, something you call "seperation speed".


Again, it is from limited viewings so I will repeat that my opinion is by no means concrete and set in stone. However, I do want to play devil's advocate to create a debate and I will understand if others have similar concerns.

Lazar is a great player on the forecheck and the PK, because he causes turnovers, causes the other team to make mistakes, and can keep the offensive zone clock going. His shot compliments this nicely as he can capitalize on those turnovers.

But he isn't an elusive skater, nor does he have a huge frame or dominant strength to drive players back.
While he has great acceleration, his top speed (from my viewing) wasn't quite elite yet.

I'll leave it at that as I can feel this discussion getting slightly overheated. But I do want to say, while maybe not a fair comparison, guys like Mike Fischer have made an excellent career being great forechecking player without possessing top line seperation skills.
He does all those things.

You simply dont know what you are talking about, probably because you havent seen him play all that much.

He blows by and through defenders quite often actually.

He is one of the strongest players in the league for his size (not small) and age. The only one I can think of off hand who may be stronger (WHL) would be Jake Virtanen.

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01-27-2013, 02:12 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He does all those things.

You simply dont know what you are talking about, probably because you havent seen him play all that much.

He blows by and through defenders quite often actually.

Anyone who has watched him play regularly would know that.
I guess I must have missed something then in my viewings.

Because I saw a straight-forward type of skater, not an elusive one. In addition, I saw a guy that causes tons of problems along the boards because of his energy and willingness to insert his body physically, but didn't get to see a guy who can lean into opponents and create a scoring chance all by himself through strength and by driving to the net.

Speed is one area I was a bit iffy on myself, but I concluded his ability to beat players was from his quick first steps and energy, but not his top speed, so I was thinking how it would translate against NHL defenders who maintain better gap control and read the play better than junior players.

I think he has the potential to be an excellent 2nd liner, with a safe bet of being a great 3rd liner. A guy who can consistently score 20+ goals, be the main weapon on a PK, and be the guy you want to send out if you are down by 1 goal with 1 minute left, so he can create a turnover.

So again, I'll leave it that. If you disagree and feel he has much more than excellent 2nd line potential, that is fine. Like I said, my opinion isn't cemented due to limited viewings and I respect your opinion since you must have seen him more than me and I may have caught him during bad games. I just wanted to play the part of devil's advocate because is that what prospects are all about? None of them a sure-bets and all of them have something both positive and negative.

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01-27-2013, 09:05 PM
  #32
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Lazar is a very good skater. His balance and strength are his best assets. He has good speed and he does occasionally blow by guys. He is a bull. Extremely strong. I don't think he is going to out skate guys at the next level, but the foundations are there for him to be a good, all-around NHL skater.

I like his tools scoring-wise. His shot is killer but I don't think he has a killer goal scorers instinct. He is incredibly smart and uses his vision and passing when you least expect it to set up a nice chance. I would like to see him show a bit more confidence in the offensive zone and play a bit more recklessly on the rush.

At the end of the day we all like Lazar here and I haven't heard a person say they don't think he will be an NHL players. If I were an NHL GM I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this guy in the middle of the first round.

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01-27-2013, 09:10 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This is what you said.....



Now you are saying you think Lazar WILL be picked ahead of Klimchuk?

Its obvious to those of us who actually watch WHL games regularly that you are full of donkey stuffing, I mean your flip flop take on the above is evidence enough of that, then you have the audacity to put your NO LIVE viewings ever opinion over that of a guy who covers the WHL as a professional broadcaster, and others who are sth's who watch these players live and not just "during the lockout".

Grab some stones and take the bet, or just admit you dont know your ass from your elbow.
No I haven't watched him live. But just cause you may live in a whl area (I dunno I'm on my phone) doesn't mean you know him head to toe and everything you say is accurate.

I think he's the product of a good team.

Also I said I am surprised by the list which has lazar over klimchuck, but most lists are like that and I think lazar will be picked first but I think it's the wrong choice. See if your brain can process that.


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01-27-2013, 10:12 PM
  #34
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Nichushkin at 12 seems low after he scored WJC bronze winner.

and Hunter at 10?

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01-27-2013, 10:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I guess I must have missed something then in my viewings.

Because I saw a straight-forward type of skater, not an elusive one. In addition, I saw a guy that causes tons of problems along the boards because of his energy and willingness to insert his body physically, but didn't get to see a guy who can lean into opponents and create a scoring chance all by himself through strength and by driving to the net.

Speed is one area I was a bit iffy on myself, but I concluded his ability to beat players was from his quick first steps and energy, but not his top speed, so I was thinking how it would translate against NHL defenders who maintain better gap control and read the play better than junior players.

I think he has the potential to be an excellent 2nd liner, with a safe bet of being a great 3rd liner. A guy who can consistently score 20+ goals, be the main weapon on a PK, and be the guy you want to send out if you are down by 1 goal with 1 minute left, so he can create a turnover.

So again, I'll leave it that. If you disagree and feel he has much more than excellent 2nd line potential, that is fine. Like I said, my opinion isn't cemented due to limited viewings and I respect your opinion since you must have seen him more than me and I may have caught him during bad games. I just wanted to play the part of devil's advocate because is that what prospects are all about? None of them a sure-bets and all of them have something both positive and negative.
Not trying to pick a fight with you, I just thought your assessment of him wasnt particularly accurate or fair, but, again, some nights he can look like a world beater and others he is very quiet/pretty plain. He is a pretty streaky scorer. He can score two or three goals a game, then go a month without scoring. I dont really want to project what he can/will be in the nhl. Not sure I could if I wanted to with any accuracy.

I feel pretty comfortable saying I think I can recognize his skills/attributes at the WHL level and that is where we are in disagreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zjh View Post
Lazar is a very good skater. His balance and strength are his best assets. He has good speed and he does occasionally blow by guys. He is a bull. Extremely strong. I don't think he is going to out skate guys at the next level, but the foundations are there for him to be a good, all-around NHL skater.

I like his tools scoring-wise. His shot is killer but I don't think he has a killer goal scorers instinct. He is incredibly smart and uses his vision and passing when you least expect it to set up a nice chance. I would like to see him show a bit more confidence in the offensive zone and play a bit more recklessly on the rush.

At the end of the day we all like Lazar here and I haven't heard a person say they don't think he will be an NHL players. If I were an NHL GM I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this guy in the middle of the first round.
I think this is a pretty accurate portrayal of Lazar. If there is anything he may be lacking atm, it would be his playmaking skills imo. I dont know if that is something he can work on or if it is something you either have or you dont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
No I haven't watched him live. But just cause you may live in a whl area (I dunno I'm on my phone) doesn't mean you know him head to toe and everything you say is accurate.

I think he's the product of a good team.

Also I said I am surprised by the list which has lazar over klimchuck, but most lists are like that and I think lazar will be picked first but I think it's the wrong choice. See if your brain can process that.
I think my brain can process someone talking out their ass just fine. Especially in obvious cases such as this.

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01-27-2013, 10:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MrFunnyWobbl View Post
Nichushkin at 12 seems low after he scored WJC bronze winner.

and Hunter at 10?
Nichushkin is tied to a three year contract in the khl, so that may or may not affect how high he goes. I think he will go pretty high when all is said and done, if teams are confident he wants to play in the nhl. Pretty hard to ignore that package of size/skill. He could end up going very high actually.

Not sure if that factored into the list in question, probably not I would think, but that's just a guess.

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01-28-2013, 01:23 AM
  #37
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Not trying to pick a fight with you, I just thought your assessment of him wasnt particularly accurate or fair, but, again, some nights he can look like a world beater and others he is very quiet/pretty plain. He is a pretty streaky scorer. He can score two or three goals a game, then go a month without scoring. I dont really want to project what he can/will be in the nhl. Not sure I could if I wanted to with any accuracy.

I feel pretty comfortable saying I think I can recognize his skills/attributes at the WHL level and that is where we are in disagreement.
I think there is a definite miscommunication here because we are both ending at the same place (agreeing with Zenon's assessment) but going about it differently.

We both think he's a great all-round player and that he would make an excellent mid 1st pick.

I hope I am not implying I do not like him. Lazar impressed me alot during the Super Series. His energy in that game was infectious and dangerous.

He is a great all-round prospect, a guy you put in many key situations, and I believe, if I sang any more praise to him, he would in the running for a top 5 selection.

But like Zenon said, at the end of the day, we all love him.

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01-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #38
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Adam Erne at 25 is definitely different.
definitely. lowest I have seen him ranked... borderline top 10 talent on most everyone elses rankings..

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01-28-2013, 03:38 PM
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definitely. lowest I have seen him ranked... borderline top 10 talent on most everyone elses rankings..
There is a lot of highend talent in this draft with more players than usual receiving top 15 consideration. Very deep high end in this draft with very minor differences in evaluation.

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01-28-2013, 05:08 PM
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There is a lot of highend talent in this draft with more players than usual receiving top 15 consideration. Very deep high end in this draft with very minor differences in evaluation.
Exactly.

So much hand wringing at each individual players ranking.

Craig Button, said he just puts guys in groups, and after the top 6 or 7 of this draft, the next group is 20 players deep.

It would all be about preference after that, really hard to judge a bunch of guys who could be top 15 picks, when there are 25 of them.

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01-28-2013, 07:22 PM
  #41
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There is a lot of highend talent in this draft with more players than usual receiving top 15 consideration. Very deep high end in this draft with very minor differences in evaluation.
Everyone has their own view, but this is the only list that has Erne outside the top 20. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this is the only list I've seen with Erne outside the top 20.

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01-28-2013, 07:24 PM
  #42
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Exactly.

So much hand wringing at each individual players ranking.

Craig Button, said he just puts guys in groups, and after the top 6 or 7 of this draft, the next group is 20 players deep.

It would all be about preference after that, really hard to judge a bunch of guys who could be top 15 picks, when there are 25 of them.
Honestly I'd prefer if more people used this system, but I think the list system generates more controversy and thus more hits.

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01-28-2013, 11:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Everyone has their own view, but this is the only list that has Erne outside the top 20. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this is the only list I've seen with Erne outside the top 20.
I'd imagine everyone's list is different. It's the beauty of what we do. I'd imagine the lists of 30 NHL teams are different too.

There really isn't ever a right or wrong draft list if there are proper viewings behind it.

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01-29-2013, 12:28 AM
  #44
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I'd imagine everyone's list is different. It's the beauty of what we do. I'd imagine the lists of 30 NHL teams are different too.

There really isn't ever a right or wrong draft list if there are proper viewings behind it.
I agree, there is no right or wrong. I am however interested on your reasonings for such an unorthodox ranking.

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01-29-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Honestly I'd prefer if more people used this system, but I think the list system generates more controversy and thus more hits.
A tiered rankings makes much more sense than a numerical listing ranking. The fluctuations within these rankings from month to month illustrate this. Players move a rank or two, largely for little real reason.

Conveying the percieved tiers within a draft is far more interesting and useful. It would also help to cease the inevitable "How do you have said player at #18!!!!". How these players correspond with each other and the percieved talent they are close with is far more useful than assigning a number that doesn't really differentiate that player from the other assigned numbers around him.

So yes, i agree, give us tiers!!!

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01-29-2013, 04:16 PM
  #46
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Define 'quite a lot' and I'm fully assuming none of those viewings were live?

I'm sure there is a legit argument for Klimchuk over Lazar, but I don't see how you can make it with any credibility if you don't have the viewings to back it up. That's all I'm saying.
One quick question for you since you have the chance to see Lazar live.

How would you compare Lazar to Ryan O'Reilly?

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01-29-2013, 10:20 PM
  #47
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Love that Nurse is rising. So much potential with this kid. Plays like Pronger.

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01-30-2013, 11:28 AM
  #48
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There is a lot of highend talent in this draft with more players than usual receiving top 15 consideration. Very deep high end in this draft with very minor differences in evaluation.
there is not that much highend talent to put Erne at #25 this year. If Erne went #25 overall, this would be one of the greatest drafts ever. the kid is much closer to #10 than #25.

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01-30-2013, 12:19 PM
  #49
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Anyone have any info on Connor Hurley? Thats a new name for me.
Here's an interesting tidbit...his uncle worked for the CIA and helped to hunt down Bin Laden:

Michael Hurley Link

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01-30-2013, 01:33 PM
  #50
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Here's an interesting tidbit...his uncle worked for the CIA and helped to hunt down Bin Laden:

Michael Hurley Link
love him even more!

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