1) Does Stan Mikita - er, Stanislav Guoth - not count? I can understand if/why not, but as a 2X Hart winner and 4X Art Ross winner, and possibly the best centre of his time, he'd no doubt stand out above, well, everyone on this list.
2) I likes me the Stastny brothers, but for all of Peter's points and skill, did he ever really reach the heights (particularly relative to his peers) of Chara - perennial Norris candidate with plenty of post-season all-stars to Stastny's 0 (what an era, though), captain of a Cup winner, etc?
3) It's going to get interesting for me when it comes time to put Demitra, Bondra, Palffy, Hossa in some kind of order.
2) I likes me the Stastny brothers, but for all of Peter's points and skill, did he ever really reach the heights (particularly relative to his peers) of Chara - perennial Norris candidate with plenty of post-season all-stars to Stastny's 0 (what an era, though), captain of a Cup winner, etc?
Yes and it's not really about removing Gretzky either, there were plenty of centres at or above Peters level.
1) Does Stan Mikita - er, Stanislav Guoth - not count? I can understand if/why not, but as a 2X Hart winner and 4X Art Ross winner, and possibly the best centre of his time, he'd no doubt stand out above, well, everyone on this list.
Not a Slovak hockey player. While he is an ethnic Slovak, he moved to Canada when he was 8 and learned to play hockey there.
At most, he can be included somewhere as a side note, with an asterisk. He is a Canadian hockey player of Slovak origin.
I would add Vaclav Nedomansky next, probably followed by Jozef Golonka.
He was born in a village close to Slovak borders and he did say he feels more Slovak than he does Czech (having played 12 years for Slovan Bratislava), but I still wouldn't include him in this list. He is Czech.
Probably Chara, as much as I dislike him. But he is the only Slovak who was the best at his position, at least for a short time.
Marian Hossa has a strong argument as the best RW for the period from 2002-03, inclusive. Maybe not for every single individual year (although there are several years where he at minimum has a very strong argument) but given that a) Jagr leads RW with a 1.05 PPG and Hossa is 4th with a 1.01 over the same time frame (St.Louis 1.04, Alfredsson 1.02) and b) Hossa has been getting Selke votes since 2000-01, it' hard to make the argument that such a small scoring difference (3-4 points in a season) trump the defensive difference between the players.
He was born in a village close to Slovak borders and he did say he feels more Slovak than he does Czech (having played 12 years for Slovan Bratislava), but I still wouldn't include him in this list. He is Czech.
His parents were Slovak, he feels more Slovak than Czech, and he was born in a border village when the two countries were the same country that was given to the Czech Republic when the two split. To me, that seems more Slovak than Czech, but maybe you know better since you're from there.
Nedomansky was also an inaugural member in the Slovak hockey HOF. Is he in the Czech Hockey HOF? (I can't find a list of members of that one).
His parents were Slovak, he feels more Slovak than Czech, and he was born in a border village when the two countries were the same country that was given to the Czech Republic when the two split. To me, that seems more Slovak than Czech, but maybe you know better since you're from there.
Nedomansky was also an inaugural member in the Slovak hockey HOF. Is he in the Czech Hockey HOF? (I can't find a list of members of that one).
No idea how it is with the HOF. I am thinking he was included in the Slovak one because of his Slovan years, we can't really use that to judge anything.
No idea how it is with the HOF. I am thinking he was included in the Slovak one because of his Slovan years, we can't really use that to judge anything.
For what it's worth, he speaks Czech.
Speaks czech, but considers himself Slovak - his own words. Slovak parents lived in Moravia.
#1 is Chara, Gretzky and Lemieux away, Stastny is "just" very good, maybe we can talk about some historical impact on NHL, european influence etc...again, Chara defined whole new type or concept of defensman, noone replicated yet (I mean such combination of height and skills). Chara is the best on his position for bunch of years arguably. Gretzky aside, we can't say it about Stastny
Took Peter even with Chara being the best in the world at his position, or close to it for a couple of years, he really didn't do very much before age 23.
Defense is different than center so it's a hard comp.
Stastny has a very impressive career before 23 and was very good late in his career as well (8-5-4-9 line in the Olympics at age 37).
Speaks czech, but considers himself Slovak - his own words. Slovak parents lived in Moravia.
#1 is Chara, Gretzky and Lemieux away, Stastny is "just" very good, maybe we can talk about some historical impact on NHL, european influence etc...again, Chara defined whole new type or concept of defensman, noone replicated yet (I mean such combination of height and skills). Chara is the best on his position for bunch of years arguably. Gretzky aside, we can't say it about Stastny
Chara defined a new type of defenseman, by combination of size and skills?
Pronger had won the Hart with that recipe when Chara was still a slow-skating pylon in New York.
Yes and it's not really about removing Gretzky either, there were plenty of centres at and above Peters level.
I don't think "plenty" is the right word here, yes there was centers at and above Stastny like Trottier, Dionne or Messier but those guys are all bonafide Hall of Famers, Stastny was a top 6 scorer 6 times and scored the most points by any player in the 80s not Gretzky, and he missed some of his best years in the NHL as he came into the league at 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life
Probably Chara, as much as I dislike him. But he is the only Slovak who was the best at his position, at least for a short time.
I can see how you can like to make a case for Chara but he didn't do anything in the league in his first years with the Islanders and won his Norris and got his All Star selections in a pretty weak era for defensemen, it was pretty much an aging and a bit past his prime Lidström, an aging and a bit past his prime Pronger and then Duncan Keith, I think he would have looked a lot weaker in the early 90s against prime Bourque, Chelios and Leetch, or in the early 00s against prime Lidström and Pronger
Is Chara better than Scott Stevens because he's got a Norris and Stevens don't?
Chara defined a new type of defenseman, by combination of size and skills?
Pronger had won the Hart with that recipe when Chara was still a slow-skating pylon in New York.
Yes, after Chara you have neverending list of examples Myers, Gill, Sutton... In his last season in New York Chara already put it together, stats doesnt say the whole story.
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Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
International success in early age of Peter Stastny is in big picture comparable with success of Chara. Stastny has 2 golds from WC and final appearance from famous CC 1976 with arguably the third best national team and while he was not a dead weight by any means, Chara played a key role in his international appearances: 2 silvers from WC with teams which had no bussinnes to be there and fourth place from OG - Vancouver. That all with arguably the 6-8th best team in the world.
As for the argument that Chara was a pylon until his 23, let's not forget Stastny started to play NHL at age 24 (!) so his immediate succes has to be set into a context.
