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01-30-2013, 12:43 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Why is Dillon considered a prospect when Benn isn't? Both went undrafted, both make rookie mistakes in the NHL but do well in the AHL.
Dillon was signed while still playing in the WHL as a 20 year old. Jordie Benn was signed as a 23 year old playing for the Allen Americans.

I said this during the summer and I still feel this way; Benn is an organizational player. If this were the Texas Rangers Jordie Benn is (a less proven) Craig Gentry and Dillon is Leonys Martin.

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01-30-2013, 11:25 AM
  #177
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Good article from Heika that outlines all the problems we see and gives the organization's frustrating take.

Makes it pretty clear that Gulutzan isn't going to be fired during the season, which I agree isn't going to happen. People can put that thought out of their minds.

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01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #178
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Probably one of the better articles I've seen Heika write. I really just want to see some progress. We seem to be in the one step forward, two steps back rut right now.

We need to see some clear progress and obvious addressing of the issues in the lineup before we start to change our "fix this" tune.

And Heika/whoever does Heika's legwork is reading this, hello.

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01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Good article from Heika that outlines all the problems we see and gives the organization's frustrating take.

Makes it pretty clear that Gulutzan isn't going to be fired during the season, which I agree isn't going to happen. People can put that thought out of their minds.
"If you go hard right now, do you potentially lose the leadership of the team?"

What leadership? That's what I got most out of that.

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01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
  #180
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Yeah, that's the most problematic part. That's the most immediate step that could be taken -- finishing the job that was started in the summer. Morrow/Robidas/Ribs/Ott are all one group and should be treated as such. You can't leave any of the old guard behind, you can't do the job halfway. Especially when the 2 guys you DID remove were the 2 most effective hockey players.

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01-30-2013, 11:48 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Good article from Heika that outlines all the problems we see and gives the organization's frustrating take.

Makes it pretty clear that Gulutzan isn't going to be fired during the season, which I agree isn't going to happen. People can put that thought out of their minds.
First Heika article I've read in quite a while.

I don't agree with the people who want Ryder's ice time to be cut. We know he's a streaky player, and we know that when he shows up, he shows up big time. He's just one of those players you have to deal with.

Alex Goligoski "finding his feet" is retarded. Absolutely ridiculous to think that this guy can actually be your #1 PMD. He's a major defensive liability and pairing him with Robidas is just one of the worst defensive pairs I've ever seen in the NHL, and that's not an overstatement.

Leaning on vets over the new players after saying that you're patient and trying to move towards the future with small, attainable goals just simple doesn't make sense. If the front office and the bench both know that these vets won't be around when the team actually sees success, then there's no reason to limit your ice time to the guys who will be your cornerstones. We have plenty of examples where teams just throw out there young guys and let them figure it out with a very hard nosed coach that holds players accountable. Perfect examples being CHI, LA, and STL. They played like absolute dog **** for a while, and as they added COMPLEMENTING PLAYERS through trades and free agency they figured it out.

Instead of bringing in vets who have had their time, and piecing your drafted players around them, you do it the exact opposite way. I've never seen the model we have now actually succeed. If somebody has please point me to the team and I'll do my research on them.

Giving Gully the vote of confidence may in theory sound great, but when you have the talent this team has up front, and the goaltending, there's absolutely no excuse to get dominated as bad as this team has. We have Jaromir ****ing Jagr, and you mean to tell me we can't maintain even a little bit of possession? Are you kidding me? Jamie Benn, Louie Eriksson, Whitney, Ryder, and Roy? That's insane to just sit back and accept as 'the norm' for a rebuilding team. You don't spend good money on big names and just bend over and take mediocrity. It's a coaching issue, and you'd have to be blind to see it otherwise.

The D is the second biggest problem after coaching. If these loons in the front office actually think Jordie Benn can be anything other than a #7 NHL defenseman, then we really do need a new GM and a new scouting staff. Yeah we've got Robidas, and yeah he belongs in the NHL. Does he belong in anything higher than a #4 role? ****. No.

Trevor Daley is a very good option for the top 2 now, and we've got some VERY, VERY good defensive prospects to build with. Dillon, Larsen, Oleksiak, Nemeth, Bystrom coming up, Klingberg (project, but has the feet and hands), and Vance to come up and take over an enforcing role. Yeah Matt Niskanen played like **** here after Zubov left, but that doesn't mean that Oleksiak is on the same path. Just watch the kid and it's very apparent their minds are on completely different planets.

If this article actually has some truth in it from the front office, then we've got bigger issues than I though.

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01-30-2013, 11:50 AM
  #182
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As I posted on the article, basically anything said out of Gulutzan's mouth is a lie to me at this point. This season, especially, he's not even trying to tell the truth when it comes to why he's benching players.

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01-30-2013, 11:58 AM
  #183
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If Heika is right, and it seems reasonable he is, Reilly Smith has to be returned to the AHL. Last night was ridiculous, and Gully's comments from the previous day make him look silly.

Not what I want ... but I guess this is what we'll get:

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Whitney-Roy-Ryder
Nystrom-Fiddler-Garbutt
Morrow-Eakin-Vincour
Wandell

If the organization has any sense though, Cody Eakin has more than proven he should be the 3rd line center on Friday night and beyond.

Nystrom-Eakin-Vincour/Garbutt
Morrow-Fiddler-Vincour/Garbutt

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01-30-2013, 12:17 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Good article from Heika that outlines all the problems we see and gives the organization's frustrating take.

Makes it pretty clear that Gulutzan isn't going to be fired during the season, which I agree isn't going to happen. People can put that thought out of their minds.
Good article, but the article doesn't criticize a main gripe I have against this organization vis-a-vis the ambivalent nature of the message from the organization during JN's tenure. What is "patience" according to GMJN? Did firing a head-coach and his replacement, the first chance he got, indicate patience? Did the goal to make the playoffs during the bankruptcy years and dealing away a sniper and a PMD for an above-average PMD indicate patience? Are the additions of temporary offensive pieces in Langenbrunner, Ryder, Jagr, and Whitney any indications of patience? Is playing a goaltender, whose groin is tweaked, on successive nights any indication of patience? No, the management does want to make the playoffs despite the glaringly obvious fact that the defense is arguably the weakest in the WC and simply cannot compete even if they squeak in. Maybe they want us to be patient with the "rebuild" while they try "making the playoffs" and keep failing at that with a coach who keeps insisting on playing useless veterans over youth because.....who the **** knows?!


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01-30-2013, 12:27 PM
  #185
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@CIN:

Ryder. Put him back with Eriksson and Benn we ain't got time for chemistry finding right now.

Goligoski needs an RD partner yesterday. A big mobile RD partner named Keith Ballard. You will all yell at me if I suggest Larsen for Ballard. Since we can't move Goligoski (in a perfect world we do), or Robidas, we move Larsen for help now. The pipe is loaded with bigger just as talented dudes.

Yes.

Is it a coaching issue? A chemistry issue? It's a big issue because we have to keep a forward back to backcheck because the defense can't seem to defend, and the forwards can't seem to possess the puck. It's a vicious circle of failure.

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@ BigG: We ain't got time this year to find chemistry automagically out of nothing. Put Ryder back with Eriksson and Benn for 3 weeks while Jagr has time to practice and teach Benn.

And if there's one player who deserves an amnesty buyout it's Goligoski. I can't stomach another year of Robidas playing 24 a night. I can't stomach another year of the moody and tumultuous lockerroom goings on. I don't know if I can watch Daley play super one night, then have six brainfarts and put pucks in our own net again. Or Jordie Benn getting picked and being victimized because he's just not that good.

Again, D (and coaching of our D) needs to step up or step out.

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01-30-2013, 12:33 PM
  #186
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it cracks me up that the ppl who want to ditch goligoski are also killing gmjn for not showing enough patients with nisky... even though the way goli's played in his time here FAR outpaces anything nisky ever did without zubov.

....you can't have it both ways.

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01-30-2013, 12:44 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by eartotheground View Post
it cracks me up that the ppl who want to ditch goligoski are also killing gmjn for not showing enough patients with nisky... even though the way goli's played in his time here FAR outpaces anything nisky ever did without zubov.

....you can't have it both ways.
I am not for ditching Goose or wasting a compliance buyout on him. I am not averse to trading him for a good return which, at this point, is not plausible at all. However, to what you addressed: I can just as well say that GMJN wants us to be patient with Goose when he didn't exercise patience with Niskanen...in much the same way he wants us to be patient with Gully now, whilst not giving Tippett even a moment to breathe before he fired him. Granted Niskanen was more horrible than what Goose is for us now, but he was thrust into a major role way too soon- let's not forget that- and seeing how well he's doing in Pittsburgh even when he's not producing, is pretty obvious.

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01-30-2013, 12:47 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
I am not for ditching Goose or wasting a compliance buyout on him. I am not averse to trading him for a good return which, at this point, is not plausible at all. However, to what you addressed: I can just as well say that GMJN wants us to be patient with Goose when he didn't exercise patience with Niskanen...in much the same way he wants us to be patient with Gully, whilst not giving Tippett even a moment to breathe before he fired him. Granted Niskanen was more horrible than what Goose is for us now, but he was thrust into a major role way too soon- let's not forget that- and seeing how well he's doing in Pittsburgh even when he's not producing, is pretty obvious.
i guess to me it seems easier to me to show the patience for a player to return to a proven level than it is to wait for a player who's never or hardly been there. it is an interesting parallel that both players performed better in pitt... what does that say about the rest of our team/ system?

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01-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #189
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I'm still at a loss about why Gully should get suck flak over scratching Larsen once and Smith once.

Smith isn't playing big minutes, but Gully isn't going to cut ice time from Jagr, Eriksson, Whitney, or Ryder for Smith.

If Smith should instead be in the AHL playing big minutes, that's not Gully's call to make.

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01-30-2013, 12:52 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Good article from Heika that outlines all the problems we see and gives the organization's frustrating take.

Makes it pretty clear that Gulutzan isn't going to be fired during the season, which I agree isn't going to happen. People can put that thought out of their minds.
My thought is that fans' patience is measured over 2-3 games. The organization's patience is measured over 15-20 games.

Fans have good reason to be a little ticked right now. But I do think that you need to give a team in the Stars' situation some time to work things out.

Benn+Eriksson and Fiddler+Nystrom are the only forwards that have substantial playing time together before this season. And Benn had no camp and has only played two games now. Those aren't meant to be excuses, but I don't know that you can criticize Gulutzun's vision at this point. Individual choices (like Rome over Larsson, Morrow on the PP and getting more ice than R. Smith), yes.. There seem to be some issues there..

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01-30-2013, 01:10 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eartotheground View Post
it cracks me up that the ppl who want to ditch goligoski are also killing gmjn for not showing enough patients with nisky... even though the way goli's played in his time here FAR outpaces anything nisky ever did without zubov.

....you can't have it both ways.
Definitely not for ditching Goligoski. Would be crazy to and GMJN isn't going to do it, but I don't see a problem with moving him down the line up for a couple of games. Not that that would help anything but eh.

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01-30-2013, 01:17 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
I'm still at a loss about why Gully should get suck flak over scratching Larsen once and Smith once.

Smith isn't playing big minutes, but Gully isn't going to cut ice time from Jagr, Eriksson, Whitney, or Ryder for Smith.

If Smith should instead be in the AHL playing big minutes, that's not Gully's call to make.
How about over Morrow?

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01-30-2013, 01:38 PM
  #193
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Gully has to rethink that bottom six. I think we have like 2 goals from the third and fourth line this season. Nystrom and fiddler have a combined total of 8 shots through 7 games. Once Roy is back, a third line of Smith-Eakin-Vincour would be a lot more effective offensively and its not like we would sacrifice goals against because of it. Joe said himself the third line was supposed to be the fourth line, so I don't know what gully is thinking.

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01-30-2013, 02:16 PM
  #194
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Goligoski needs an RD partner yesterday. A big mobile RD partner named Keith Ballard. You will all yell at me if I suggest Larsen for Ballard. Since we can't move Goligoski (in a perfect world we do), or Robidas, we move Larsen for help now. The pipe is loaded with bigger just as talented dudes.

Yes.
Dude... that is terrible. What is your fascination with Keith Ballard? He's going to be dumped for scraps in the offseason and you want to acquire him for one of our best young players? That is the opposite of building from within. That's the kind of move that cripples franchises. And all for a quick fix so Goligoski has a right handed partner? (which he does right now in Larsen...) In what world is Keith Ballard "big" also? This would be a dream come true for Vancouver.

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01-30-2013, 02:44 PM
  #195
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Dude... that is terrible. What is your fascination with Keith Ballard? He's going to be dumped for scraps in the offseason and you want to acquire him for one of our best young players? That is the opposite of building from within. That's the kind of move that cripples franchises. And all for a quick fix so Goligoski has a right handed partner? (which he does right now in Larsen...) In what world is Keith Ballard "big" also? This would be a dream come true for Vancouver.
Exactly. Not to mention that if the Stars acquired him to play with Goligoski they would face the same issue they're dealing with in Robidas. Robidas and Ballard are decent depth defensemen but as soon as you ask them to take on a larger role they get exposed.

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01-30-2013, 03:12 PM
  #196
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@Frozen Failure: Ballard is 5'11"...same as Goligoski, and he's been a colossal disappointment since Vancouver acquired him.

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01-30-2013, 03:18 PM
  #197
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Ballard for Larsen is crazier than Bachman for a 2nd and a prospect. We are all going stir crazy in here.

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02-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #198
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That is all...

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02-02-2013, 09:57 PM
  #199
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What scratch tonight made a difference?

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02-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #200
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What scratch tonight made a difference?
It isn't the fact of who made a difference. Its the fact that this coach has no clue what hes doing.

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