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Old
01-28-2013, 05:11 PM
  #326
ronnyweed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherVaughn30 View Post
Regarding any trade for Luongo, his contract has to be somewhat offset by salary coming back or it won't work for any GM to stomach a contract like that.
yep more like joel ward being the centerpiece

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01-28-2013, 05:14 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by SherVaughn30 View Post
Regarding any trade for Luongo, his contract has to be somewhat offset by salary coming back or it won't work for any GM to stomach a contract like that.
Depends if you mean salary or cap hit? His cap hit is very good right now. Capitals have money and spend near to cap every year, so I don't think his an issue. Yes you could add in Schultz, but not for value because it is not a need. He is playing a little under 10 mins a game so I see how he could be expendable but he is only on the books for 2.75 this year and next year, so it really isn't that much salary.

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01-28-2013, 05:17 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by ronnyweed View Post
yep more like joel ward being the centerpiece
Ward is too valuable and actually earning his pay right now, so no.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:17 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Not interested in Johansson at all. From Washington I'd be looking at John Carlson, Filip Forsberg, Evgeni Kuznetsov, 1st round pick. Some combination of that depending on which assets are coming back. Anything involving Kuznetsov would have to carry at least a conditional 1st round pick in the event he doesn't ever play a game in Vancouver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Johansson or bust!

See you guys in the Lu thread.
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Not at all? Now I know you're crazy

Carlson would do, Forsberg probably isn't moving, and yeah, a 1st would be excellent filler, but the Caps have a lot of active roster players I'd like too.

Chimera for our bottom six and salary back, Green (a pipe dream, don't shoot me), the aformentioned Johansson, even guys like Ward or Schultz if the rest of the package is right too.

Oh, and I hear that Ovechkin kid is being run out of town this season, what would Washington add if we took him off your hands?
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't get the hype surrounding Johansson at all and think some people overrate him.

Don't really need Chimera or Ward or Schultz...we already have plenty of bottom 6ers. Mike Green wouldn't be bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smells Squatchy View Post
Laich and Holtby for Luongo and Schroeder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Luongo + Booth for Ovechkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lers780 View Post
To Washington:
Roberto Luongo
(Jordan Schoeder?)

To Vancouver:
Nicklas Backstrom
(Neuvirth/Holtby?)

The Caps look like they could use some help in the Goaltending department, and at the same time could free up a little cap space by getting rid of Backstrom's monster contract. Mike Ribero and Brooks Laich can resume #1 and #2 C positions if he were to leave. Signing Ribero to a extension would have to be done before making the trade though.

The Canucks need some depth at Center, and are hurting right now without Kesler. They need to get rid of Luongo and he most likely would waive his NTC to go to Washington because its so close to his family in Flordia and Washington has the ability to be a contending team with him in net.

Assuming Holtby or Neuvirth would be coming the other way the Canucks could give up Schroeder to give them a nice center prospect.

What do you guys think? Am I CooCoo for coco puffs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris11inter View Post
So just to confirm.

Just answer this one question:
Are the Washington Capital a better hockey team with Roberto Luongo in Net? Simple yes or no answer.

Your talking about giving big increases to "(Holtby, Neuvirth, Johansson, Alzner, Wolski maybe)"
-Wolski is getting nothing
- Your not signing both Holtby & Neuvirth if Luo is in the picture. One can be traded for an asset
- If Johansson is the main trading piece to get Luo he is non issue-

Meaning Alzner & Holtby Or Neuvirth needs to be signed as a back up goalie and you have a bonafied # 1 top 10 goalie for the next 5 years at what cost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Still on an ELC this year, and likely only subject to a small raise this off season (as in <3 million/season), can play top six, can cover PP2 dutie, PK, and last I checked can play wing. He's versatile, and as an offensive 3 C or 2 W I think he would fit our style very well. He's no second coming, but he's a better match for our organization then similar players with similar hype (ie Kadri).

Pass I think, Laich is overpaid for his position in Vancouver, IMO, and Holtby is redundant unless we flip him for furth assets (Schneider, Lack, Cannata). Get a third team in maybe?

I wouldn't want to surrender Schroeder in a trade, but if it meant Backstrom...Yeah, sure. Solid top 20-30 center in the league at worst, so my question to you is....why would Washington do this? Hell, even assuming they keep the bracketted player and exchange one else where, I don't see them lining up to move their top center, even from someone as nuts about Lu's play as me.

Contract isn't amazing, but its far from bad for a star player of his stripes, and Laich and Ribero can't hold a candle to Backstrom.

Last season was the first time ever he scored under 65 points...and was still 2 points above a ppg in a half season.

It might be Ovechkin helping his numbers, or it might be a Burrows-Sedin situation too, or maybe, just maybe, Backstrom's a contributor in his own right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
It's one thing saying the Caps could be in discussions, Luongo would be a big improvement on the roster and cap issues could be sorted out later or as part of the deal, but Backstrom or Holtby+++ doesn't help either side.

I said "Johansson or bust" almost jokingly, and I'm regretting doing so looking at some of the other expectations.

Also, it's 5 games, I hate to disagree with you for no good reason, but I don't think anyone is in panic mode yet, or we'd have probably seen a big deal already (not Lu per se).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I could see it being something like Johannson, Neuvirth, 1st for Luongo,

Johansson would be a good pickup just don't think he is suited for a 3rd line role going forward once Kesler is healthy.
I will say this once more, and then leave this thread forever.



Holtby's career numbers, despite his two poor games to start the season, are STATISTICALLY better than Luongo's. Hell, they're pretty damn close to Schneider's. Now someone please explain to me why two poor games by a 23 year old, after the lockout, and in which his defense hung him out to dry, are reason enough to completely give up on him ever being a number one goalie. Because that's what hitching our wagon to Luongo does - it ends any chance of him, or 26 year old Michal Neuvirth, being the number one in DC. It makes even less sense (since we have to actually give up assets to put ourselves in this situation) than Vancouver keeping Luongo and having him either block Schneider's and Lack's development or be the most expensive backup in the history of the NHL.

It shouldn't happen. It won't happen. And if it does, I swear to god I'll change my username to Phuck McFee.


Last edited by Zoidberg Jesus: 01-28-2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: math is hard
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Old
01-28-2013, 05:21 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Good explanation but Islanders need help on defence, so maybe we add Ballard into discussion if Vishnovsky is being sent.

Luongo
Ballard

For

Okposo
Niederreiter
Vishnovsky
Nabokov

Islanders upgrade their goaltending and defence. Okposo has not been living up to potential, but is a type of player Gillis would target. Niederreiter is top prospect wanting out.
Can't see Okposo and Niederreiter being included in the same deal
Can't see Wang paying for two long term deals or buying Dip out

Ammended leaving the D out for now (until Vis reports?):

to NYI
Luongo

to Van
Dipietro (significantly negative value)
Nieder
1st

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:23 PM
  #331
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Did I just read that a 23 year old goalie has better career numbers then Luo? OK, that makes sense.

Not to mention, please don't quote every thread it is annoying.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:24 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Agreed; I think last injury he came back too soon to help the team and ended up doing more damage in the long run. This time him, his agent, and the Canucks are all on the same page to ensure Kesler is really 100% before his return.

Semi-related note how epic would it be if Booth and Kesler returned for the same game;

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Higgins
Weise - Lapierre/Malholtra - Hansen
Yeah, Kesler can sit out as long as he wants, as long as he is ready to go for the playoffs, Schroeder has been playing very well anyways.

That would be epic, only critique would be swapping Higgins and Hansen, Hansen had a good game yesterday, and Higgins is yet to make an impact all year.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:26 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Holtby's career numbers, despite his two poor games to start the season, are better than Luongo's. Hell, they're pretty damn close to Schneider's.
Seriously?

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:30 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Can't see Okposo and Niederreiter being included in the same deal
Can't see Wang paying for two long term deals or buying Dip out

Ammended leaving the D out for now (until Vis reports?):

to NYI
Luongo

to Van
Dipietro (significantly negative value)
Nieder
1st
No chance. No team will trade for Diepetro. So I think Diepetro's contract is irrelevant. If the Islanders feel like they are going to be a lot better with a very good goalie they do this. Without defencemen I think it would be.

Okposo
Nieder
Nabokov

If this is the potential deal Gillis is talking about, he clearly said he is not taking on a player to buyout. He also is going to want good value coming back now and future for the future. Nieder is not ready to help now significantly and neither is 1st. Plus doubt Islanders risk trading a high pick, unless this deal is done right at the deadline.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:34 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I will say this once more, and then leave this thread forever.



Holtby's career numbers, despite his two poor games to start the season, are better than Luongo's. Hell, they're pretty damn close to Schneider's. Now someone please explain to me why two poor games by a 23 year old, after the lockout, and in which his defense hung him out to dry, are reason enough to completely give up on him ever being a number one goalie. Because that's what hitching our wagon to Luongo does - it ends any chance of him, or 26 year old Michal Neuvirth, being the number one in DC. It makes even less sense (since we have to actually give up assets to put ourselves in this situation) than Vancouver keeping Luongo and having him either block Schneider's and Lack's development or be the most expensive backup in the history of the NHL.

It shouldn't happen. It won't happen. And if it does, I swear to god I'll change my username to Phuck McFee.
Because some of us Canuck fans have to FANTASIZE about dumping Luongo and his gigantic contract for some excellent cheap young talent.

Egro we have to blind ourselves to the reality no other GM is going to be that stupid and we keep hoping against hope a GM smokes crack one night and make a ridiculous trade.

Meanwhile, the other GMs that didnt happen to smoke crack, sit back and watch the canucks logjam their goaltending situation with two guys who wanna be the starter and a third guy who has put his time in the minors and is ready to make his debut.

How bout just sit and wait until the implosion happens and they basically are forced to give Luongo away for nothing or lose Lack or lose Schneider or whatever.

Because this is the most likely scenario. Ask yourself this:

as a GM, do YOU give Gillis anything cheap young talent for a guy everyone knows the canucks are trying to unload?

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01-28-2013, 05:34 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
No chance. No team will trade for Diepetro. So I think Diepetro's contract is irrelevant. If the Islanders feel like they are going to be a lot better with a very good goalie they do this. Without defencemen I think it would be.

Okposo
Nieder
Nabokov

If this is the potential deal Gillis is talking about, he clearly said he is not taking on a player to buyout. He also is going to want good value coming back now and future for the future. Nieder is not ready to help now significantly and neither is 1st. Plus doubt Islanders risk trading a high pick, unless this deal is done right at the deadline.
What about Bailey? Perfect 3rd line C for this team.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:36 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
No chance. No team will trade for Diepetro. So I think Diepetro's contract is irrelevant. If the Islanders feel like they are going to be a lot better with a very good goalie they do this. Without defencemen I think it would be.

Okposo
Nieder
Nabokov

If this is the potential deal Gillis is talking about, he clearly said he is not taking on a player to buyout. He also is going to want good value coming back now and future for the future. Nieder is not ready to help now significantly and neither is 1st. Plus doubt Islanders risk trading a high pick, unless this deal is done right at the deadline.
Not a chance Lou garners that much alone. No chance Wang takes on another long term deal with Dipietro on the books. I used to work for CA. I can say confidently he is not going to do that.

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01-28-2013, 05:36 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Because some of us Canuck fans have to FANTASIZE about dumping Luongo and his gigantic contract for some excellent cheap young talent.

Egro we have to blind ourselves to the reality no other GM is going to be that stupid and we keep hoping against hope a GM smokes crack one night and make a ridiculous trade.

Meanwhile, the other GMs that didnt happen to smoke crack, sit back and watch the canucks logjam their goaltending situation with two guys who wanna be the starter and a third guy who has put his time in the minors and is ready to make his debut.

How bout just sit and wait until the implosion happens and they basically are forced to give Luongo away for nothing or lose Lack or lose Schneider or whatever.

Because this is the most likely scenario. Ask yourself this:

as a GM, do YOU give Gillis anything cheap young talent for a guy everyone knows the canucks are trying to unload?
Man I really wish you would stop these posts. The reason you are going to offer something is because someone else will. The sky is not falling.

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01-28-2013, 05:37 PM
  #339
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What about Bailey? Perfect 3rd line C for this team.
He is better on the wing. He would be a decent fit with Kesler.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:41 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Not a chance Lou garners that much alone. No chance Wang takes on another long term deal with Dipietro on the books. I used to work for CA. I can say confidently he is not going to do that.
Fair enough, deal with Islanders is tricky. Who are you referring to in CA? Did you mean CW?

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01-28-2013, 05:43 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Can't see Okposo and Niederreiter being included in the same deal
Can't see Wang paying for two long term deals or buying Dip out

Ammended leaving the D out for now (until Vis reports?):

to NYI
Luongo

to Van
Dipietro (significantly negative value)
Nieder
1st
This makes no sense at all. Why trade one goalie bad contract for another? Canucks would just be in a similar predicament with Dipietro contract, where he is a lot more likely to be injured and is a much lesser quality goalie.

I think there are three givens in this eventual Luongo trade. 1st, a good size salary has to come back. 2nd, the trade partner must have room for a starting goalie. 3rd, the trade partner must have salary cap room for the future. There are not too many teams that can meet all three factors.

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01-28-2013, 05:46 PM
  #342
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Teams will eventually get desperate and GM's will eventually realize that they need to make a move to solve an issue such as goaltending; look at Toronto, Philadelphia, NYI, Washington and Florida in the east and Columbus in the west. Teams that have already been chatted about, but are really the only realistic places for Luongo.

When a team puts in an offer that's when Gillis will use it as leverage, or try to (via the media) to up the anti. In the end, Gillis will get what he wants, and from all reports that's a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

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01-28-2013, 05:49 PM
  #343
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Its a ridiculous proposal
But explain that past 2 playoffs thing please?
sure...neuvirth v the rangers and holtby v the bruins and the rangers stood on their heads. both of them outdueled lundqvist and holtby outdueled tim thomas as well.

in short whatever success the caps have had in the playoffs during the ovechkin era the goaltender at the time is given a large amount of the credit for that happening and non or very little of the blame when they lost.

conversely luongo is the goat in vancouver

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:51 PM
  #344
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It's got to be the Islanders.

Look at their offensive production, and then look at where they are in the standings. If they had a goalie of Luongo's caliber, they'd not only comfortably qualify for the playoffs, but they could do some damage once there.

Niederreiter, who apparently wants out, can play in Vancouver's top-6 immediately.

Visnovsky, who will supposedly report to NYI by 2/11, is an expiring contract whom Vancouver is not committed to long-term.

Nabokov, an expiring contract, provides veteran stability on net should Cory falter, yet comes off the books in time for Lack to take over the back-up job in '13-'14. Plus, NYI doesn't have a goalie capable of starting 55-60+ games in the NHL once Evgeni comes off the books.

Niederreiter, Visnovsky and Nabokov (covering all 3 zones) help the Canucks win right now, as does Luongo for the Islanders.

Don't underestimate the Islanders' move to Brooklyn and how that may affect the on-ice product/ personnel.
I don't understand how NYI can afford to have both Luongo and Dipietro on life long deals.

We would have to take Rick back which is a no go for us.

Although if by some meraculous stroke of luck they would be willing to have both deals.

As for pieces, I'm staying away from Visnovsky, Ballard and Tanev are playing great so he has nowhere to go in our line-up and know AV, there is 0 chance he swaps in for any of the top 4.

Niedderitter is an interesting piece, as he wants out, and Nabokov would have to be in the trade for our POV.

Islanders:
Roberto Luongo

Canucks:
Evgeni Nabokov
Nino Niedderitter

I can't see it happening, but I think something like that built around Nino + Nabby might be fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SherVaughn30 View Post
I would be very surprised if McPhee would trade for Luongo. If he did, MG would have to take back some salary, with only Schultz and Laich probably being candidates in that regard. For HF Board purposes:

Capitals receive Luongo and a winger from current lineup

Vancouver receives Schultz, Laich, Neuvirth and 2nd round pick or Schultz, Johansson and Neuvirth
Might do the 2nd one, although not sure Schultz has a place on our team.

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01-28-2013, 05:53 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Lers780 View Post
To Washington:
Roberto Luongo
(Jordan Schoeder?)

To Vancouver:
Nicklas Backstrom
(Neuvirth/Holtby?)

The Caps look like they could use some help in the Goaltending department, and at the same time could free up a little cap space by getting rid of Backstrom's monster contract. Mike Ribero and Brooks Laich can resume #1 and #2 C positions if he were to leave. Signing Ribero to a extension would have to be done before making the trade though.

The Canucks need some depth at Center, and are hurting right now without Kesler. They need to get rid of Luongo and he most likely would waive his NTC to go to Washington because its so close to his family in Flordia and Washington has the ability to be a contending team with him in net.

Assuming Holtby or Neuvirth would be coming the other way the Canucks could give up Schroeder to give them a nice center prospect.

What do you guys think? Am I CooCoo for coco puffs?
If Luo was in WAS would you give up one of the Sedins for him?

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01-28-2013, 05:53 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I will say this once more, and then leave this thread forever.



Holtby's career numbers, despite his two poor games to start the season, are STATISTICALLY better than Luongo's. Hell, they're pretty damn close to Schneider's. Now someone please explain to me why two poor games by a 23 year old, after the lockout, and in which his defense hung him out to dry, are reason enough to completely give up on him ever being a number one goalie. Because that's what hitching our wagon to Luongo does - it ends any chance of him, or 26 year old Michal Neuvirth, being the number one in DC. It makes even less sense (since we have to actually give up assets to put ourselves in this situation) than Vancouver keeping Luongo and having him either block Schneider's and Lack's development or be the most expensive backup in the history of the NHL.

It shouldn't happen. It won't happen. And if it does, I swear to god I'll change my username to Phuck McFee.
I have a feeling he didn't read anywhere close to all the posts he quoted, or at the very least didn't catch the sarcasm in a lot of them (Luongo for Ovechkin+...)...but I will be damned if that .gif didn't get my attention. Zoidberg Jesus, Mr. Wilder, I tip my hat.

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01-28-2013, 05:56 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I don't understand how NYI can afford to have both Luongo and Dipietro on life long deals.

We would have to take Rick back which is a no go for us.

Although if by some meraculous stroke of luck they would be willing to have both deals.

As for pieces, I'm staying away from Visnovsky, Ballard and Tanev are playing great so he has nowhere to go in our line-up and know AV, there is 0 chance he swaps in for any of the top 4.

Niedderitter is an interesting piece, as he wants out, and Nabokov would have to be in the trade for our POV.

Islanders:
Roberto Luongo

Canucks:
Evgeni Nabokov
Nino Niedderitter

I can't see it happening, but I think something like that built around Nino + Nabby might be fair.
As is, I think that's great. Vis for Ballard if they want a longer term solution too, but Ballard...he's been impressive so far this year.

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01-28-2013, 05:58 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Because some of us Canuck fans have to FANTASIZE about dumping Luongo and his gigantic contract for some excellent cheap young talent.

Egro we have to blind ourselves to the reality no other GM is going to be that stupid and we keep hoping against hope a GM smokes crack one night and make a ridiculous trade.

Meanwhile, the other GMs that didnt happen to smoke crack, sit back and watch the canucks logjam their goaltending situation with two guys who wanna be the starter and a third guy who has put his time in the minors and is ready to make his debut.

How bout just sit and wait until the implosion happens and they basically are forced to give Luongo away for nothing or lose Lack or lose Schneider or whatever.

Because this is the most likely scenario. Ask yourself this:

as a GM, do YOU give Gillis anything cheap young talent for a guy everyone knows the canucks are trying to unload?
Luongo is fed up... Wants out at all costs asap... It goes to auction... How high does the auction go with the bidders? What is the highest bid and who makes it? Tell us! Then go around the various team boards and ask if they would pay a little, tiny more for Luongo then this... and keep going... Until no team fan feels more is worth it... And that's just from fans who don't have the same pressures, insight, and operating knowledge then actual GM's... Fans who belong to Hockeys Futures board and overvalue prospects and picks to begin with...

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01-28-2013, 06:00 PM
  #349
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
As is, I think that's great. Vis for Ballard if they want a longer term solution too, but Ballard...he's been impressive so far this year.
I think Gillis will want a roster player for this year. Niño can't make Islanders, he probably won't make the Canucks.

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01-28-2013, 06:05 PM
  #350
Carlzner
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We don't want Luongo.

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