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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:52 AM
  #126
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Not entirely true. There haven't been proposals be either. The issue is, there are some Leaf fans that would like Luongo and some that want to tank. There are also some Nucks fans who feel Lu to TO deal us dead...and some that don't.

I will admit i would have liked Luongo here, but the Leafs can't afford it. All of this still makes for great discussion.
I agree with all of what you are saying, and everyonce in a while the trolls from both sides come out and ruin a good conversation. However now, I really just want this to be over to see what happens. Don't get me wrong I still don't want to rush into anything, but the anticapation... it's gotten to me like the like the beat.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:11 AM
  #127
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As long time Hemsky fan it pains me to offer this but Hemsky for Luongo straight up? I think it helps both teams get pieces they need to improve this season.

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01-27-2013, 10:13 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
As long time Hemsky fan it pains me to offer this but Hemsky for Luongo straight up? I think it helps both teams get pieces they need to improve this season.
Hemsky's injury troubles make him too much of a risk on his own, imo. I would do Hemsky + MPS or a 1st conditional on the Oilers making the playoffs.

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01-27-2013, 10:17 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Hemsky's injury troubles make him too much of a risk on his own, imo. I would do Hemsky + MPS or a 1st conditional on the Oilers making the playoffs.
I'd do Hemsky and the conditional 1st. Gotta keep MPS is were trading a winger out of town. Would suck to see Hemsky shooting against us though.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
As long time Hemsky fan it pains me to offer this but Hemsky for Luongo straight up? I think it helps both teams get pieces they need to improve this season.
Gagner is the reported center piece for the EDM-VAN trade; which makes sense given that his dad (Dave) works for the Canucks. I just have a feeling Luongo has Edmonton on his "no go" list.

Have to imagine Oilers would love to solidify their goaltending.

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01-27-2013, 10:21 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I have said all along nobody would pay Gillis' price.....so far....i'm right.

The only issue with this stance is that you are right only until you are proven wrong. You also don't know what the asking price is, and how it will match to the eventual price when Luongo is moved, so the stance will be lost in that ambiguity.


Oh and Welcome Back.

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01-27-2013, 10:23 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Gagner is the reported center piece for the EDM-VAN trade; which makes sense given that his dad (Dave) works for the Canucks. I just have a feeling Luongo has Edmonton on his "no go" list.

Have to imagine Oilers would love to solidify their goaltending.
I would probably agree if it wasn't for the fact that, from what I've hear, the Oil were Lu's favorite team growing up

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01-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Monkey Boy View Post
I would probably agree if it wasn't for the fact that, from what I've hear, the Oil were Lu's favorite team growing up
Pretty sure he was a Habs fan but Fuhr was his favourite goalie.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Monkey Boy View Post
I would probably agree if it wasn't for the fact that, from what I've hear, the Oil were Lu's favorite team growing up
Grant Fuhr was his favorite Goalie; didn't see anything that states Oilers were his favorite team. But assuming you're correct; being a fan watching them play vs LIVING and working in Edmonton are two completely different things.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:31 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto fans aren't making any proposals in this thread, pretty much every post made by a Leaf fan is to pour cold water all over the pipe dream of some Vancouver fan that they will end up with Kadr + Gardiner + 1st from us


So the impetus for you to be a recurring member in this thread is to re-iterate "we don't want Luongo" and "you're not getting Kadri + Gardiner + 1st" in as many inventive and creative ways as you can think of? Does that sound like it is worth your time?



Canucks fans are here because it's a player on their team. The recurring TOR presence is because of what? If _some_ fans feel like they can't afford him, don't want him, or want the Leafs to tank, why are _those fans still following this thread? To re-iterate that they have _no_ interest? Mega-contradiction or what?



This is the main contradiction in this thread. It has led to some frustrating discussion as well because some Canucks fans (me included) confuse the TOR fans that want nothing to do with Luongo with the ones that do and actually want to come to some sort of agreement here. Ferraro said it best, if you want Luongo, you are all in. He's that type of player. It's the pretenders that think he can be had for a song. It's also the tank-happy squad that don't want him for anything, that try to move the discussion away from giving up anything to giving up nothing. Yet all parties, tankers + pretenders + deal makers _ALL_ come here because they are interested in Luongo. It's the interest that keeps them coming back. You don't open up this thread otherwise...



And to not only continue the pipe dream, but to expand on it, I hope Gillis actually _raises_ the price on TOR just to see what is going to be fed to the media afterwards. If it was Kadri + Gardiner, I'd up it to include a 1st. That should get Nonis in the right frame of mind. I mean, if both sides are playing hardball, and Gillis has no intention of acquiescing to the smear job prevalent in the media or to the trade demands by Nonis, why not do it? If he has no intention of sending Lu to TOR, which has become increasingly obvious, why not use them a bit more to get the word out, good or bad? No such thing as bad publicity amirite? I think this is some of what was behind his last tirade about TOR/TOR media in fact... He knows he closed the door on them and just used it as a springboard to go off.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 01-27-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 10:40 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I'd do Hemsky and the conditional 1st. Gotta keep MPS is were trading a winger out of town. Would suck to see Hemsky shooting against us though.
I'd be okay with it as well. It would suck just as much playing against Lu. But I think it would make bothe teams better, and that's always the main thig in trades like this.

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01-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Canucks fans are here because it's a player on their team. The recurring TOR presence is because of what? If _some_ fans feel like they can't afford him, don't want him, or want the Leafs to tank, why are _those fans still following this thread? To re-iterate that they have _no_ interest? Mega-contradiction or what?
Sorry buddy but this is one of the biggest stories hanging over the league for the past 9 months. Anyone who is interested in the NHL will have interest in this story and fans of every other team have just as much right to come into this thread and say they are for/against trading for him and think that a deal will cost x amount in the end as Canucks fans do. If you only want to talk to Canuck fans about a possible deal go to the Vancouver board.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Sorry buddy but this is one of the biggest stories hanging over the league for the past 9 months. Anyone who is interested in the NHL will have interest in this story and fans of every other team have just as much right to come into this thread and say they are for/against trading for him and think that a deal will cost x amount in the end as Canucks fans do. If you only want to talk to Canuck fans about a possible deal go to the Vancouver board.



This is a big story, and many teams will have interest, but who's posting in here: predominately Canucks and Leafs fans. The former because it is their player, the latter because...? What is the impetus on Leafs fans to attempt to dominate the conversation? Because they need a goalie?


Fans of other teams have come here and gone, save for a few stragglers here or there. The rest is Leafs-centric discussion. Not only that, it's discussion about how they don't want or can't afford the player in question.


I want to talk to fans who have interest, who want Luongo, and understand what it could involve to get him, based on the reality of past trades, not their own narrative of what he may cost. I mean, if Varlamov got a 1st+ and Halak was traded for a former 1st rounder+, what is the logical standing of TOR fans saying that Luongo, a goalie much better than either of those options doesn't _deserve_ that compensation. I've heard porous arguments of contract talk, but it's without merit. Age is a factor sure, but it is the only one. The majority of TOR proposals have not fallen in line with precedent and so no agreement has been reached for quite some time... yet the TOR fans keep coming back. I would take Ag925's single asset Bjugstad offer over near anything a TOR fan has stated. Almost without a doubt. What does that say of the TOR offers?

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01-27-2013, 11:03 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Sorry buddy but this is one of the biggest stories hanging over the league for the past 9 months. Anyone who is interested in the NHL will have interest in this story and fans of every other team have just as much right to come into this thread and say they are for/against trading for him and think that a deal will cost x amount in the end as Canucks fans do. If you only want to talk to Canuck fans about a possible deal go to the Vancouver board.
I don't think I've seen many Buffalo, New York, etc, fans in here but I haven't seen any Canuck fans bash them if they do. The ones we're getting annoyed at are the ones who could obviously use Luongo's services (Toronto) but just don't like the pricetag so they trash talk/undervalue him in hopes to "opening our eyes" to his real value.

It's fine that you think he's too expensive, it's fine that you voiced your opinion as a fan of any team, however there is a point when it crosses from voicing an opinion to devalue that player.

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I want to talk to fans who have interest, who want Luongo, and understand what it could involve to get him, based on the reality of past trades, not their own narrative of what he may cost. The majority of TOR proposals have not fallen in line with this and so no agreement has been reached for quite some time... yet the TOR fans keep coming back. I would take Ag925's single asset Bjugstad offer over near anything a TOR fan has stated. Almost without a doubt. What does that say of the TOR offers?
Tell me the last time any player was traded with a contract that paid them into their mid-40's and then we can discuss precedent. As it stands this is an unique situation and anyone saying that Luongo due to his contract is worth a 2nd round pick and the Canucks have to take back a bad contract has just as much precedent to go on as does anyone saying he's a top goaltender and worth a 2nd line forward, a pick and a prospect.

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01-27-2013, 11:10 AM
  #141
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I don't think I've seen many Buffalo, New York, etc, fans in here but I haven't seen any Canuck fans bash them if they do. The ones we're getting annoyed at are the ones who could obviously use Luongo's services (Toronto) but just don't like the pricetag so they trash talk/undervalue him in hopes to "opening our eyes" to his real value.

It's fine that you think he's too expensive, it's fine that you voiced your opinion as a fan of any team, however there is a point when it crosses from voicing an opinion to devalue that player.
You can complain all you like but this place is full of nothing but opinions. If some guy thinks Luongo isnt the top notch goaltender you think he is then all you can do is try and debate the facts but again that probably wont mean much. Look on any teams board and if you can find everyone agreeing about all the players on their team I'd be amazed. Somebody can watch a few games and find something they dont like in any goaltenders game, if they think that means the guy wouldnt work on team X then they can put that out there.

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01-27-2013, 11:14 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
You can complain all you like but this place is full of nothing but opinions. If some guy thinks Luongo isnt the top notch goaltender you think he is then all you can do is try and debate the facts but again that probably wont mean much. Look on any teams board and if you can find everyone agreeing about all the players on their team I'd be amazed. Somebody can watch a few games and find something they dont like in any goaltenders game, if they think that means the guy wouldnt work on team X then they can put that out there.
No one is saying everyone needs to agree with each other; I am just saying it gets annoying when you see the same fan base come in and trash talk a player who are in need of that said player.

You can't say coincidence when Toronto come last draft was deeply interested and even the a large sum of fans were on board with it, but all of the sudden they don't like the price tag, state their disinterest but still come here to trash talk him. Hmmm.

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01-27-2013, 11:24 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Tell me the last time any player was traded with a contract that paid them into their mid-40's and then we can discuss precedent. As it stands this is an unique situation and anyone saying that Luongo due to his contract is worth a 2nd round pick and the Canucks have to take back a bad contract has just as much precedent to go on as does anyone saying he's a top goaltender and worth a 2nd line forward, a pick and a prospect.


Not altogether correct. The contract evaluators get put into two camps. The ones that think it's terrible, and the ones that think it is so good so as to be made illegal. What about the OK camp? A third camp can think that the contract doesn't have meaningful impact on his value whatsoever, at that point, what does Luongo command?



The uniqueness of the contract does not oust precedent. Precedent first sets the value, and _then_ the contract weights that value either way. TOR and VAN fans can't even come to an agreement where the contract has little impact, of which there is a mountain of precedent, let alone how the contract affects that first agreement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
You can complain all you like but this place is full of nothing but opinions. If some guy thinks Luongo isnt the top notch goaltender you think he is then all you can do is try and debate the facts but again that probably wont mean much. Look on any teams board and if you can find everyone agreeing about all the players on their team I'd be amazed. Somebody can watch a few games and find something they dont like in any goaltenders game, if they think that means the guy wouldnt work on team X then they can put that out there.


It's full of opinions, both informed and uninformed. I think after 9 months of debating this, it's becoming clear which opinions should be valued and which shouldn't.


You are right in saying that opinions vary, and are fickle, but when they are backed by people who have _no_ interest in seeing Lu come to their team, then what are they worth in a thread like this?

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01-27-2013, 11:32 AM
  #144
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Tell me the last time any player was traded with a contract that paid them into their mid-40's and then we can discuss precedent. As it stands this is an unique situation and anyone saying that Luongo due to his contract is worth a 2nd round pick and the Canucks have to take back a bad contract has just as much precedent to go on as does anyone saying he's a top goaltender and worth a 2nd line forward, a pick and a prospect.
Anyone who says a 2nd round pick and salary dump is equitable is an idiot. A second round pick has a 25% chance of becoming a serviceable NHL player, let alone a good/great one, and you add a salary dump too it?!?

Why wouldn't the Canucks just waive Luongo, if the best they could get back doesn't help them at all? The notion of zero value or negative value as a return is absolutely ludicrous.

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01-27-2013, 11:35 AM
  #145
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Anyone who says a 2nd round pick and salary dump is equitable is an idiot. A second round pick has a 25% chance of becoming a serviceable NHL player, let alone a good/great one, and you add a salary dump too it?!?

Why wouldn't the Canucks just waive Luongo, if the best they could get back doesn't help them at all? The notion of zero value or negative value as a return is absolutely ludicrous.
I wonder if Luongo gets claimed if he is waived

Can't hide salary in the minors anymore

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01-27-2013, 11:38 AM
  #146
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You can complain all you like but this place is full of nothing but opinions. If some guy thinks Luongo isnt the top notch goaltender you think he is then all you can do is try and debate the facts but again that probably wont mean much. Look on any teams board and if you can find everyone agreeing about all the players on their team I'd be amazed. Somebody can watch a few games and find something they dont like in any goaltenders game, if they think that means the guy wouldnt work on team X then they can put that out there.
So if someone thinks that Nonis is an interim GM and that Toronto has limited things to offer for his services, they are not wrong? People in here are telling us we can't believe that but you here are telling us that we have to be open to crap offers.

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01-27-2013, 12:08 PM
  #147
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Bruce Garrioch

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Lots of teams are waiting to see where the dominos fall with Vancouver G Roberto Luongo before making a move for a netminder. Canucks GM Mike Gillis has told several teams he's not doing anything until he gets his asking price. Yes, the Edmonton Oilers have what it takes to acquire Luongo, but he wouldn't approve a trade there. The Panthers don't want to make a deal unless Gillis is willing to take cash back. The Canucks know the pressure is mounting in some markets to win and they'll find a desperate GM trying to save his job, maybe even Washington or Philly.
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/01/26/...ter-slow-start


In his interview with Cam Cole he mentioned about teams saying they're offering good players / prospects, but saying they need to take "contract" back, meaning Florida

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01-27-2013, 12:34 PM
  #148
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Bruce Garrioch



http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/01/26/...ter-slow-start


In his interview with Cam Cole he mentioned about teams saying they're offering good players / prospects, but saying they need to take "contract" back, meaning Florida


What this tells me is that VAN can accept a deal at any point with those teams needing to send salary back as their particular caveat. VAN has the ability to do this type of deal so long as the key pieces are still good. They just don't want to yet because they don't have to. If it ever comes to the point where the relationship becomes untenable with Lu & VAN, Gillis can phone said GM up and say they are now willing to do the deal. That seems like a pretty good position to be in if the contract is in the 3m range.


Now it's just waiting on others who could possibly offer a deal without having to send salary back (I think TOR was one of those teams), and we could have some real movement here.

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01-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #149
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Question:

How much would Luongo be worth if he were signed for two years?(i.e. this one and the next)

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01-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #150
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I wonder if Luongo gets claimed if he is waived

Can't hide salary in the minors anymore
While true you can't hide salary in the minors, you can hide salary off your cap using the LTIR.

That's how all these retirement contracts will get around any restrictions or penalties for early retirement.

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