HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Leafs lose again. We are Oilers in denial.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2013, 11:12 PM
  #526
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
We have a better shot at getting out of the bottom 10 with good team defense and a star forward who spends more than 20 seconds a night touching the boards. Two things that are within the realm of possibility.
Some forwards aren't as effective along the boards as others (B. Richards vs Nash, for instance), but Kessel's engaged in the cycling game a lot more this season than he has in the past. The purpose of creating a line is to offset each player's weaknesses with the others' strengths. If you put 3 players together who are at best average along the boards, the results (especially against a big team) will be fairly obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Strange that you've made the assumption that putting MacArthur back where he was already awful means consistent production, and so does moving JVR off a line he plays well on to a line he has never been with before.
Actually, I don't want MacArthur on the top 6. My suggestion was to move Kadri to the Grabo's line, as I believe his creativity, puck handling, grit will complement the line well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
You guys should stick to xbox.
I don't have a gaming system, and have no desire to get one.

4evaBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:17 PM
  #527
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampshade View Post
I ask you in all honesty? Do you understand the structure of four lines? The fourth will never be offensively what the first is. This is for various reason but the easiest way to explain to you is that generally the third and fourth lines occupy less salary than the first two. I told the poster bomber this the other night, it's a fast game and for people who have not played the game often difficult to understand the subtle neuances. A good way of learning is going to the main board and simply reading. Take in what you can. We appreciate your ideas here however they often are odd. Not everyone has played the game but most posters try to comprehend what they are typing. Wish you all the best in your quest for knowledge. Any questions, myself and many others here would be willing to help you out with via a pm.
So you're agreeing with what I posted, then. We should have at least two offensively productive lines to have a better chance to make it out of the bottom 10.

Not sure I see the point of the long-winded post, a simple: "I agree" would have done just fine.

4evaBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:20 PM
  #528
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
I'm pretty convinced that if a better team with a better situation for him offered less money, it would be an easy choice for him.

But how do you know the Leafs will even throw the bank at him in the first place? Burke is gone, Kessel was his pet project. He's scored a bunch of goals since he's been here but he can't and does not want to be the player that puts a team on his back when things aren't going well.

There are teams that can afford to pay him well but also offer him things the Leafs can't.
Not too many teams would he be clear cut the best player on the team. Teams like PHX and CLB can't afford him. Teams like CGY and VAN don't have the cap room.
He is still one contract away from worrying about winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
He has a limited no-trade clause in his contract coming up in the last year of his contract. If he doesn't show signs of wanting to re-up we have to at least listen to offers for him before it kicks in. We can lose year after year without him just as much as we have with him.

It comes down to when you believe this team will be contending. Kessel is 25 and will be 27 when he's playing on his new UFA contract. If we're 3-5 years away from doing some damage Kessel will be pushing 30 and likely be on the downward trend of his career. This varies, but most goal scorers peak around ages 27-29.

Of course, if you believe this team is a player or two away from contention then you won't agree with any of this and rightly so. The point is, we can't lose him for nothing. We just can't take that risk after the price we paid to get him.

Just some food for thought.
What is more attractive.

TRying it again next year with Bozak or Kadri as his #1.

OR

Seeing MacKinnon coming in another year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm okay with this, the quicker we get Grabo away from Tavares or Richards type C's the better this team will be. What do you think of Kadri this year? Can he be our #2 one day?
KAdri as a #2. Sure. Btu I really like to roll 3 offensive lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleafsfan View Post
Man Leaf fans love to scapegoat players. Look, Dion Phaneuf is playing with Mike Fuc*ing Kostka. Put Mike Kostka along side any other top defenceman for 5 games and I guarantee you you'll see similar results.

I agree that Phanuef isn't a top 10 dman but he fills his role. That's all you need players to do. Kostka tries to fill his, but this guy can't go from being a career AHLer to a guy you matchup against the other teams best players. He's a stopgap for this team because he's in good shape. Gardiner can't play his role yet because of injury, but I bet you the second that they're ready to bring him back Kostka will not be logging 25 minutes.

Fans that say we need to blow this team up will be the same ones who will come out and say blow it up again when the new players provide the same results

have some patience, look for growth and let this locker-room grow. I know once these guys get more stability in the line-up we'll see more 60 minute efforts. For now, just enjoy the hockey.
pLay Kostka to convince no one to pick him up on waivers.

charliolemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:20 PM
  #529
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoMarleauLeafs View Post
If this was already posted I apologize:
Good of you to post this, like I said the team all played poorly. To blame one guy is silly.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:21 PM
  #530
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Some forwards aren't as effective along the boards as others (B. Richards vs Nash, for instance), but Kessel's engaged in the cycling game a lot more this season than he has in the past. The purpose of creating a line is to offset each player's weaknesses with the others' strengths. If you put 3 players together who are at best average along the boards, the results (especially against a big team) will be fairly obvious.
Kessel could be 10x more effective on the boards than he is if he actually wanted to. Don't kid yourself, Kessel is not engaging more now than he ever has. It's not that he's losing puck battles on the boards, the battles aren't even happening.

You can tailor the team to Kessel's weaknesses all you want. With Lupul out we don't have what it takes. Sure, move Kadri up. Then we're back to two 'scoring' lines (neither of which have actually played together, and could just as easily fail), a third line that can do nothing and is probably a defensive liability (MacArthur being soft on the boards, Frattin being inexperienced), and a fourth line that gets trusted with 7 minutes a game or less.

That's pretty similar to where we were in '10-11, is it not? Kessel scored 32, second line scored 80 or whatever it was, and the team sucked.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:21 PM
  #531
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Good of you to post this, like I said the team all played poorly. To blame one guy is silly.
I agree. Putting this whoile mess on Grabovski's shoulders is just rediculous.

charliolemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:22 PM
  #532
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
i want mccarthur gone
we're rebuilding and trying to get bigger
jvr and frattin can play the top 2 LWs until Lupul returns
i'd rather see guys like ashton and colborne fighting for 3rd line spots

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:23 PM
  #533
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
I'm sure if we're out of playoff reach by the deadline, MacArthur will be dealt.

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:24 PM
  #534
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I agree. Putting this whoile mess on Grabovski's shoulders is just rediculous.
If you read my posts tonight and I am sure you did, you would know I placed plenty blame on many players, if you think I did what you said above, I may have given you too much credit as a poster

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:25 PM
  #535
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
I'm sure if we're out of playoff reach by the deadline, MacArthur will be dealt.
do it now
play the kids

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:25 PM
  #536
garce
Registered User
 
garce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 1000 Islands
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
Phaneuf is not Bobby Orr or even Erik Karlsson, what he is a pretty good all around Dman who when he hits his early thirties has a chance to be dominate. A mean thumper who can own games. Can't fight? Anybody remember Prongers greatest beat downs? Dion Gardiner Kadri Grabo Kuli Frattin Gunner are the core I take forward Lupul if he stays healthy.

garce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:25 PM
  #537
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
I'm sure if we're out of playoff reach by the deadline, MacArthur will be dealt.
BEtter be a whole heck of a lot more than just MacArthur being dealt.

charliolemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:25 PM
  #538
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Not too many teams would he be clear cut the best player on the team.
Not sure what you're getting at with this. That he wants to be the best player on the team, or that he wont get a good contract offer if he wouldn't be the best player on the team?

As for him being a contract away from worrying about winning, that's not what I'm getting at. He wouldn't be signing with a better team because they might win the cup, he'd be doing it because he would be playing for a team with better depth where he isn't under so much pressure to perform every night. But he could perform better anyway because of that depth (for linemates, but also for defensive matchups by the opposition).

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:28 PM
  #539
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
do it now
play the kids
Not sure that's Nonis' goal just yet. He wants us to compete (or at least that's what he says). If we're something like 3-11-2 by next month for example, then yeah he's gone. But if the team picks it up (highly unlikely I know.. ) and is sniffing around the playoffs by late Feb then I can't see it

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:28 PM
  #540
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
BEtter be a whole heck of a lot more than just MacArthur being dealt.
I agree

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #541
CBinTokyo
Registered User
 
CBinTokyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 408
vCash: 245
No matter what anyone says about Reim's play tonight. He never once left me with that feeling of dread that I had with the goaltending last year.

The team, well yeah, but Reim's didn't. Scientific, no, but it was nice.

CBinTokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:36 PM
  #542
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
Nonis said 10 games to evaluate i believe
that's a little more than a week

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:38 PM
  #543
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,945
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Nonis said 10 games to evaluate i believe
that's a little more than a week
I really hope we don't trade for Luongo

I wish he can just say he's not interested for this season.

I can't see the Leafs picking 14th with Luongo and missing out on an impact player if this season is a failure.

Luongo =/= playoffs.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:41 PM
  #544
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Nonis said 10 games to evaluate i believe
that's a little more than a week
10 games in a 48 game season feels awfully long.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:44 PM
  #545
black charger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,865
vCash: 500
I don't think there is any goalie that could have won the game tonite.

We need a center or at least a first line that can be trusted in the defensive zone.

black charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:44 PM
  #546
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I really hope we don't trade for Luongo

I wish he can just say he's not interested for this season.

I can't see the Leafs picking 14th with Luongo and missing out on an impact player if this season is a failure.

Luongo =/= playoffs.
after 10 games he gets an understanding of how close or far the team is from a playoff team
more importantly what areas on the team need improvement
he conceivably could make 2 or 3 blockbusters or just dump vets for picks
removing lombardi and connolly to me were a hint

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #547
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
after 10 games he gets an understanding of how close or far the team is from a playoff team
more importantly what areas on the team need improvement
he conceivably could make 2 or 3 blockbusters or just dump vets for picks
removing lombardi and connolly to me were a hint
depending on where we are, if we're at or a little below .500, I'd definitely say start trading for picks.

Macarthur for even a 2nd would be great. If we can pick up another first I'd be ecstatic.

rdawg1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #548
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,945
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
after 10 games he gets an understanding of how close or far the team is from a playoff team
more importantly what areas on the team need improvement
he conceivably could make 2 or 3 blockbusters or just dump vets for picks
removing lombardi and connolly to me were a hint
Yeah, games like the one tonight were good indication that the Leafs are more than just a good goaltender away.

Reimer was terrific as far I could judge and the Leafs put up a lacklustre performance on the ice again.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #549
black charger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Nonis said 10 games to evaluate i believe
that's a little more than a week

He was here last year and knows all the players already.What's left to evaluate.

black charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #550
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
If you read my posts tonight and I am sure you did, you would know I placed plenty blame on many players, if you think I did what you said above, I may have given you too much credit as a poster
sorry forgot the smilie.

I know how much you think Grabo is the future of the team.

charliolemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.