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01-27-2013, 11:12 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
You realize those fights came at 0-0, right? We scored two goals after those fights...
Who cares who won the game? lol

Gotta love the we gotta goon it up to win hockey games mentality of some Leafs fans what a joke and a contributing factor why we are laughed at league wide.

Lets goon it up with Orr & Brown we gonna win games and make the playoffs!

Some of you clowns would love the UFC on skates yo fools.

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01-27-2013, 11:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafGardens View Post
Who cares who won the game? lol

Gotta love the we gotta goon it up to win hockey games mentality of some Leafs fans what a joke and a contributing factor why we are laughed at league wide.

Lets goon it up with Orr & Brown we gonna win games and make the playoffs!
Goon it up or not goon it up, were still a **** team.

We get laughed at because of our ignorant fanbase thinking were better than a majority of the league and we end up sucking year after year. Orr and Brown are the only 2 players that other fanbases will respect.

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01-27-2013, 11:16 AM
  #28
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Orr is the least of Toronto's problems right now, Brown on the other hand is not useful being he is not on the PK, and considering he was last year on one of the worst, doesn't auger well for him either. I was hoping Devane would take a step fwd this year since he was a good pk man with Plymouth his last 2 years of junior, but injuries and irregular play have set him back. Orr has been fine, he brings a toughness to the team we didn't have last year, and 5 on 5 he does not hurt Toronto. If we are expecting the 4th line to win games for us, we are surely in trouble.

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01-27-2013, 11:18 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
I know what you're saying, but wouldn't Boston want Orr to be on the ice against Lucic? He might have been scared of fighting him but other teams want Orr out there against their good players. The Leafs need more toughness that can actually hurt the other team on the score sheet.
Completely agree. Problem being they don't have that toughness throughout the top 9 so they have to over compensate with a couple fighters. We need players like Perry, Lucic, Stewart.... Easier said then done though as Burke tried for 4 years and the best he could do is the current soft roster.

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01-27-2013, 11:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
Ill give Lucic credit for going Orr, but after pretty well getting his ass handed to him he ran away and hid behind the linesmen to stop the fight, IIRC.
Many fighters "tap out" every now and then. Especially after taking shot like that.

I think Toronto wouldn't need both if they were tougher overall. They don't have much jam in their top 9.

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01-27-2013, 11:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Many fighters "tap out" every now and then. Especially after taking shot like that.

I think Toronto wouldn't need both if they were tougher overall. They don't have much jam in their top 9.
Agreed. Boston can have a Paille-Campbell-Thornton 4th line because of the toughness throughout the lineup with Lucic, Horton, McQuaid, etc. that all play big minutes.

We have **** all.

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01-27-2013, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
If they can't actually play hockey - they shouldn't be on the team
Orr and Brown DO play Hockey! What a BS remark...

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01-27-2013, 11:59 AM
  #33
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2 guys being trusted with 3 or 4 mins a night is ridiculous. Puts a lot of strain on other guys to eat up the extra minutes, Mcclement is a good 4th line center though. Its too bad the Leafs couldnt get one more high quality fourth line PKer or something then at least 2 thirds of the line would contribute a bit.

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01-27-2013, 12:01 PM
  #34
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I agree in principle that these two guys don't have NHL puck handling skills and I would love to get people in who can contribute even a couple of points now and then. Domi was like Ovechkin compared to these two. But both are even on the plus minus right now so the club should really concentrate on who is losing them the games.

They both have the same number of goals as Kessel and Kulemin and the club's top 9 is as as soft as a baby's ass right now. When they rotate some of the meekness out of their D and get in a 3rd pairing guy that can handle himself (how much worse was Belak than Komi as a player?) and find some forwards with at least Corson/Roberts grit then players like Brown aren't useful. But they aren't close to that yet.

When the club had Domi, Corson and Belak they won 43 games. When they had Belak, Perrot, Marchment and Domi they won 45 games. The game has changed a bit since then but the Flyers won 47 games two years ago with Carcillo and Shelly in their lineup. It only stands out for the Leafs so badly right now because their front line vets aren't contributing.

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01-27-2013, 12:07 PM
  #35
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oh no we need Orr and Brown!!! Who will stage fight in the first 5 minutes of the game??? I might be in the minority but watching them fight they other tough guy before there is even any animosity in the game is so awkward + boring + why r they doing this...

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01-27-2013, 12:09 PM
  #36
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Did not you anti tough guy posters get your little experiment last year under Wilson?

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01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
  #37
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OP, stop posting.

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01-27-2013, 12:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
They played their 3 minutes better than any other Leaf. If you didn't notice the tone after the fights was somewhat settled but as the game wore on the Leafs got man-handled and you could tell even at 2-1 this would be a loss by the Leafs. It was only a matter of time. Without Orr and Brown it would have been worse -- like playing Boston.
That "tone" resulted in the Leafs being outshot 14-3 in the first period. We made the best of our opportunities, but let's not pretend that we somehow dominated the first period after the tone was set by the two fights.

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01-27-2013, 12:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
That "tone" resulted in the Leafs being outshot 14-3 in the first period. We made the best of our opportunities, but let's not pretend that we somehow dominated the first period after the tone was set by the two fights.
No actually the fights did set the tone for a Leaf victory. Orr and Brown scared the living hell out of Nash Richards and Gaborik so bad they wouldn't step on the ice for the rest of the game.

Good post 4evaBlue ^

Fighting no longer intimidates anyone players still gotta perform and produce when they are on the ice $$$$ just like the Rangers #1 line did the rest of the game AFTER THE FIGHTS!!

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01-27-2013, 01:33 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
That "tone" resulted in the Leafs being outshot 14-3 in the first period. We made the best of our opportunities, but let's not pretend that we somehow dominated the first period after the tone was set by the two fights.
You can't have a young team and guys like Kessel, Bozak, Grabo, JVR, Frattin, Kulemin, Kadri and Gardiner when he's back get intimidated, run at, or beat on by other teams. This team needs protection. It's necessary in the stage of development they are in.

Yep they lost. But you can't prove it would have been better without Orr or Brown. It certainly wasn't last year when they played Boston without Orr.

Orr isn't the issue here. Nor are his 3 minutes. The issue is no size to play with Kessel. Look at Kessel's stats with Lupul in the lineup and without. Staggering. The need another top defensive dman to play against top units like the Rangers. They were over-matched here. The need a big center to help down low. They simply don't have these pieces. To suggest Orr and Brown are to blame is uninformed. This team needs a big center, healthy Lupul, a big dman to compete with the NYR.

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01-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
That "tone" resulted in the Leafs being outshot 14-3 in the first period. We made the best of our opportunities, but let's not pretend that we somehow dominated the first period after the tone was set by the two fights.
Did you see Nash run over our goalie in the first few minutes of play? Strangely enough that stopped after Brown and Orr gave a physical demonstration of consequences. The timing of their fighting had nothing to do with "tone" and everything to do with deterrence. Tortella issued a challenge and the Leafs accepted. Had they not, we could have Reimer on the IR again...see Gionta the opportunist.

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01-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #42
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Redundant my ass. The only bright spots of this team right now. Leave it to Leafs fans to want snipers on the 4th line. We have set up to have 3 lines that can score, the 4th is not an issue.

With such a soft team it's nice to have a couple of guys to throw the body and fight out there.

I seriously don't know how someone can watch these games and out of all things hate on the 4th line, show some respect.

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01-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
Did you see Nash run over our goalie in the first few minutes of play? Strangely enough that stopped after Brown and Orr gave a physical demonstration of consequences. The timing of their fighting had nothing to do with "tone" and everything to do with deterrence. Tortella issued a challenge and the Leafs accepted. Had they not, we could have Reimer on the IR again...see Gionta the opportunist.
Nonsense.

Nash running Reimer could have just as easily ended with a concussion as Gionta clipping him. It's not like Gionta was running Reimer all game long, and because noone stepped up, he was allowed to finally concuss Reimer.

Btw, we had both Brown and Rosehill in the lineup when Reimer went down, and neither of them did anything. Now, if the instigator rule was removed, players would suddenly be accountable for their actions once again.

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01-27-2013, 02:27 PM
  #44
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Orr is half the reason why I even watch this not intentional tank year, other than kadri and Jvr, it's the same movie but all dressed up as a new production.

Nonis stay tight, and he will, he won't panic like Burke, no more selling the future for more Kessel deals, no more turning down 4 first rd picks in a failed hope of making the playoffs. This team will settle where they have been the past 4 seasons because they have the same old deficiencies as they always have had.

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01-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Nonsense.

Nash running Reimer could have just as easily ended with a concussion as Gionta clipping him. It's not like Gionta was running Reimer all game long, and because noone stepped up, he was allowed to finally concuss Reimer.

Btw, we had both Brown and Rosehill in the lineup when Reimer went down, and neither of them did anything. Now, if the instigator rule was removed, players would suddenly be accountable for their actions once again.
Yes, I do not know why I mentioned Gionta. However, my statement still stands...Tortella challenges and Orr-Brown respond and the goalie running ends. This is a significant step forward as last year, under the Wilson regime, Mr. Orr was banished to the minors and the bigger,stronger teams in the East had their way with the smurffyesque Leafs.

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01-27-2013, 02:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
You can't have a young team and guys like Kessel, Bozak, Grabo, JVR, Frattin, Kulemin, Kadri and Gardiner when he's back get intimidated, run at, or beat on by other teams. This team needs protection. It's necessary in the stage of development they are in.

<snip>

Orr isn't the issue here. Nor are his 3 minutes. The issue is no size to play with Kessel. Look at Kessel's stats with Lupul in the lineup and without. Staggering. The need another top defensive dman to play against top units like the Rangers. They were over-matched here. The need a big center to help down low. They simply don't have these pieces. To suggest Orr and Brown are to blame is uninformed. This team needs a big center, healthy Lupul, a big dman to compete with the NYR.
Orr isn't the issue, but he also doesn't really bring much to the team other than side show staged fights. His hands are mostly tied, and he can't do much if the other player is unwilling to fight. What's he going to do to protect our prospects? Drop the gloves, anyways, and hand the other team 7 mins in PP time? Is he going to fight the other team's enforcer to "prove a point"? WTH is that going to accomplish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Yep they lost. But you can't prove it would have been better without Orr or Brown. It certainly wasn't last year when they played Boston without Orr.
And you can't prove that it wouldn't have been better without the two 3 min guys. Orr played for the first Bruins game of last season, and you know what? It didn't make much difference in the 6-2 result. I'm not sure how you can make an argument that he would have made any difference for the other 5 games he was scratched for.

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01-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by rimshot View Post
Yes, I do not know why I mentioned Gionta. However, my statement still stands...Tortella challenges and Orr-Brown respond and the goalie running ends. This is a significant step forward as last year, under the Wilson regime, Mr. Orr was banished to the minors and the bigger,stronger teams in the East had their way with the smurffyesque Leafs.
The "goalie running" also ended in the MTL game after Reimer got injured, and noone had to stage a fight for it to happen.

I don't think a player who plays 3 mins a game does anything to help the "smurffyness" of the Leafs.

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01-27-2013, 03:22 PM
  #48
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Put Orr or Brown on Kessel's line ,I bet he wouldn't be so timid then.Look at Semenko on Gretzky's line did pretty good and kept Wayne alive during a pretty tough era.


Orr and Brown are both pretty good along the boards and are fearless if needed to go to the net.Orr plopped i front of a goalie would be scary!


Last edited by black charger: 01-27-2013 at 03:24 PM. Reason: add
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01-27-2013, 04:00 PM
  #49
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Those guys play under 7 minutes a game. Our fourth line is the least of our worries. In fact both have done their job well so far this season, particularly Orr. I respect what your saying, but it seems we are grasping at straws if we sit here and debate the effectiveness of our 4th line.

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01-27-2013, 04:08 PM
  #50
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I repeat did we not have the Wilson experiment of no toughness..

Oh and a fact

2011/2012 Toronto 0 Boston 6 wins incl...7-0 & 8-1 Orr played 1 game
2010/2011 Toronto 4 Boston 2 wins.. Orr played every game and beat up Lucic

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