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Old
03-19-2013, 09:01 AM
  #451
Don Tibbles
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
He sucks?
One of the few knocks on his game.. Some scouts think he's not physical enough overall.

Take a survey of the posters on this board. See how many of them tolerate a defenseman who doesn't play a physical game.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
One of the few knocks on his game.. Some scouts think he's not physical enough overall.

Take a survey of the posters on this board. See how many of them tolerate a defenseman who doesn't play a physical game.
You must LOVE Robak then.

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03-19-2013, 09:14 AM
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
Why isn't anyone considering Barkov if we miss out on Mackinnon? (which we probably will)
My one fear with Barkov is that he's another Olli Jokinen. A physically NHL ready forward who could play immediately but could take a while to develop the offensive side in the NHL. Not that it would happen but thats my concern with him.

One thing people seem to not factor in with MacKinnon is that he's actually pretty solid defensively too. Thats what I think sets him apart from Drouin as well. Thats the primary reason why I would favor MacKinnon over Drouin, one is stronger on defense than the other.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:34 AM
  #454
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I believe that if you want to draft a d-man in the top 3 you need to draft a dman that has ALL around skills, meaning offensive and defensive tools. I am not going to lie, looking back I kinda wonder what if we took a different dman/player instead of Guds. He is still developing and their are some intangibles he carries and all, but a top 3 pick?

He looks like hes growing up to be a fine dman, but I do not see a smidget of offensive flair on him. Though I do like it when he pinches and rushes up the play here and there.

If we pick jones he better be a dman that plays solidly and provide some offensive firepower in the backend. A top 3 pick should be able to give you a good portion of both worlds, if not trade it and find value in it. We should draft a forward like Drouin/Mackinnon/Barkov. Hard to say which one I would go for, but I am leaning over Barkov or Mackinnon.

Our d pool looks a bit crappy I do admit, and free agency might not help us in that end, but the only thing I can do is trust Tallon & co to make the right decision.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:48 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by ursavolta View Post
I believe that if you want to draft a d-man in the top 3 you need to draft a dman that has ALL around skills, meaning offensive and defensive tools. I am not going to lie, looking back I kinda wonder what if we took a different dman/player instead of Guds. He is still developing and their are some intangibles he carries and all, but a top 3 pick?

He looks like hes growing up to be a fine dman, but I do not see a smidget of offensive flair on him. Though I do like it when he pinches and rushes up the play here and there.

If we pick jones he better be a dman that plays solidly and provide some offensive firepower in the backend. A top 3 pick should be able to give you a good portion of both worlds, if not trade it and find value in it. We should draft a forward like Drouin/Mackinnon/Barkov. Hard to say which one I would go for, but I am leaning over Barkov or Mackinnon.

Our d pool looks a bit crappy I do admit, and free agency might not help us in that end, but the only thing I can do is trust Tallon & co to make the right decision.
Yup. If you draft a d-man with a top 3 pick he better do it all. Doughty is a perfect example of someone who can play an all around game. He can move the puck up ice, hit, shutdown forwards, and score. Guds so far would have been a great pick around where we drafted Kulikov, imo. But to be fair, the top of that draft after the top two wouldn't have been players that would have had more impact if we were to pick them. Skinner at the time was a reach. I would take Guds over Connoly, Neido, Granlund and it's a toss up with Ryan Johansen who is having a solid season.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:00 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Yup. If you draft a d-man with a top 3 pick he better do it all. Doughty is a perfect example of someone who can play an all around game. He can move the puck up ice, hit, shutdown forwards, and score. Guds so far would have been a great pick around where we drafted Kulikov, imo. But to be fair, the top of that draft after the top two wouldn't have been players that would have had more impact if we were to pick them. Skinner at the time was a reach. I would take Guds over Connoly, Neido, Granlund and it's a toss up with Ryan Johansen who is having a solid season.
Yeah no doubt drafting is tricky business, looking back I would've loved to trade down to pick Tarensko.. but hey can't be perfect. I like guds and I feel he will start to grow into his role as a tough stay at home dman. He has plenty of time to improve and strech his game.

The players look deflated because of the horrible season, once we start winning and set up a team for playoff appearances he will show his true colors.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:00 AM
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
Have you watched Seth Jones play?
I've watched Jay Bouwmeester play, so according to you .... yes?

I have watched Seth Jones play. He's an elite prospect who can impact both ends of the rink.

As for your idea that he's not physical enough ... huh? Jones isn't soft. Is he the meanest defenseman on the planet? No, but then Pietrangelo, Doughty, OEL, Hedman, Brodin, Karlsson, Subban ... the best young defenders in the NHL ; are they physically feared? No. You have no point.

Gudbranson is physical. Is he a spectacular talent? No. I'd rather have a clever defenseman who's gifted with and without the puck over a punishing defender any time. Let me know when Luke Schenn or Erik Gudbranson comprise of the NHL's elite.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:14 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
All the size and talent in the world in a soft mentality.

We gonna do this all over again? Seriously.

Jones is a lot more intense and physical than Bouwmeester. Your hyperbole is going into overdrive.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:17 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Hyooberdough View Post
Relatively new hockey fan. Live in Ft. Lauderdale and only recently got into hockey. Never had a favorite team, so I adopted the Panthers and have fallen in love.

I'm coming from a die hard NBA background (Nets fan), and at least in the NBA drafting a superstar is the best and almost only way to propel your franchise to the next level. Having a top pick in an elite draft is supremely important.

Point being... It sounds like this is one of those drafts from most of the commentary I've read. I think it's a real blessing in disguise the team has had a down year, because a lot of the talent is still there and adding a huge piece could make next year and the years to come very special.

As I've said in prior posts in this thread, I'm really leaning towards pairing Drouin with Huberdeau. I think Drouin is as good or better than Mac, and as someone else pointed out, Drouin could be Tallon's next Kane.

In general, I'm just really excited for the draft. Keep the tough losses coming.
Welcome to the boards

Obviously, this is a very frustrating season to be a Panthers fan, but as you've learned already, many positive things are on the horizon over the next few seasons.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:57 PM
  #460
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Would Mac and Drouin step right into the NHL, or would they need another year in the juniors?

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:03 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Steel Panther View Post
Would Mac and Drouin step right into the NHL, or would they need another year in the juniors?
MacKinnon likely. Drouins case is much like Huberdeaus was before last season. The skill is there, but need to add weight.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:10 PM
  #462
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Huberdeau-Mackinnon-Bjugstad

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:26 PM
  #463
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I probably have asked before but,are all these top prospects for this coming draft THAT big of a deal? I mean are they game changers? I was watching something on Mackinnon and they were kind of, sort of,in a weird way, comparing him to Crosby, saying they grew up in the same place and played hockey in the same places and a lot of coaches were comparing the two. I don't watch any minor/college/high school or any other hockey outside of the NHL, so I was just wondering if that was an accurate comparison. Also, if we did end up drafting Mackinnon, what are the chances he ends up even a fraction of what Crosby is,and does anyone here think he can be the new face of the franchise?

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:38 PM
  #464
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Face of the franchise, possibly. But no one from this draft projects to be a generational talent like Crosby. Those literally come along once or twice a decade.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:19 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Hockeycast View Post
I'd love getting Domi but i'd never use a top 5 pick for him. Maybe we could trade for another 1st round pick
There was this Swedish guy drafted like 200th overall, and hes been the best in the world since the lockout.

Ill take this Domi kid, i dont care what NON-NHL numbers anyone puts up, this kid has a hockey iq that shows.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:20 PM
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gudbranson4Prez View Post
Huberdeau-Mackinnon-Bjugstad
Bjugstad would be playing center and I think Mackinnon is playing the wing in the NHL

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Fantastic post. That's not to say being built via scoring can't work either, but drafting a particular player based on the concept of trying to sell tickets isn't how you run a hockey club.

Winning equals sales.
Winning equals sales.

Winning with an exciting team with a potent offense equals more sales than winning with a team that shuts opponents down for 2-1 wins... especially in a market that has been ruined by a decade of failure.

More sales = more profits = (hopefully) a team that actually spends close to the cap

If Tallon thinks Jones walks on water and is head and shoulders above the next guy on his list - draft him - no brainer.

If there are three guys bunched up with Jones ahead by a hair - go for the forward.

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03-19-2013, 05:50 PM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Bjugstad would be playing center and I think Mackinnon is playing the wing in the NHL
Not necessarily. Bjugstad's size would be ideal along the boards so he could very well play the wing too. It just depends probably on who is better on faceoffs and that will most likely be the guy thats playing center. There's definitely some flexibility there between those 2 that if one guy is better suited than the other, you can always switch them up.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:22 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Not necessarily. Bjugstad's size would be ideal along the boards so he could very well play the wing too. It just depends probably on who is better on faceoffs and that will most likely be the guy thats playing center. There's definitely some flexibility there between those 2 that if one guy is better suited than the other, you can always switch them up.
fwiw, I don't even think they'd be on the same line

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03-19-2013, 07:02 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
There was this Swedish guy drafted like 200th overall, and hes been the best in the world since the lockout.

Ill take this Domi kid, i dont care what NON-NHL numbers anyone puts up, this kid has a hockey iq that shows.
I would take a long look at Domi from #8-15, but there are several forwards in this draft with better overall offensive skills and better size.

For a guy who loves size, this seems like the anti-CHgoalie pick.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:22 AM
  #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Winning equals sales.

Winning with an exciting team with a potent offense equals more sales than winning with a team that shuts opponents down for 2-1 wins... especially in a market that has been ruined by a decade of failure.

More sales = more profits = (hopefully) a team that actually spends close to the cap

If Tallon thinks Jones walks on water and is head and shoulders above the next guy on his list - draft him - no brainer.

If there are three guys bunched up with Jones ahead by a hair - go for the forward.
Winning is winning. It's by far the most important factor. This idea that draftin Jones makes us a dull hockey team is bizarre. You're capable of looking into the future and knowing this? Jone's is an exceptional talent in both ends of the rink.

The bolded somewhat illustrates my point. Don't dick around with decisions based on illegitimate reasons like this. Make the best decisions to win. How you win ain't really the issue.

It's like a man who hasn't had sex for 15 years. Occassionally gets a few medicore offers, but is waiting for that super model to plough. It's unlikely to happen, he's approaching later stages of potential mating life ... but hey, SCARLETT, I'M WAITING.

You're more sales = more profits is the most crude basic useless analysis one could make. I'm afriad my three wishes can't be used for a thousand wishes.

I should note that i prefer taking a Forward too, but not because it might have a small bump in merchandise sales down the road. Draft who you believe is the best player. End of discussion, frankly.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:41 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
You must LOVE Robak then.
Zing!! But seriously I haven't watched him enough to form a STRONG opinion yet, but he does seem a bit on the not-so-physical side.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:28 AM
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Winning is winning. It's by far the most important factor. This idea that draftin Jones makes us a dull hockey team is bizarre. You're capable of looking into the future and knowing this? Jone's is an exceptional talent in both ends of the rink.

The bolded somewhat illustrates my point. Don't dick around with decisions based on illegitimate reasons like this. Make the best decisions to win. How you win ain't really the issue.

It's like a man who hasn't had sex for 15 years. Occassionally gets a few medicore offers, but is waiting for that super model to plough. It's unlikely to happen, he's approaching later stages of potential mating life ... but hey, SCARLETT, I'M WAITING.

You're more sales = more profits is the most crude basic useless analysis one could make. I'm afriad my three wishes can't be used for a thousand wishes.

I should note that i prefer taking a Forward too, but not because it might have a small bump in merchandise sales down the road. Draft who you believe is the best player. End of discussion, frankly.
J17...15 years buddy?

I think BPA should be the way to choose, but if there isnt a huge difference between Jones and Mac, I would go the forward route, simply because we need help scoring. When we get closer to the draft though, with the #1 pick secured, and Jones has separated himself from the rest of the top prospects, then you have to seriously consider him.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:17 AM
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
J17...15 years buddy?

I think BPA should be the way to choose, but if there isnt a huge difference between Jones and Mac, I would go the forward route, simply because we need help scoring. When we get closer to the draft though, with the #1 pick secured, and Jones has separated himself from the rest of the top prospects, then you have to seriously consider him.
Scarlett, Scarlett, what ya gonna do when i come for you.

I prefer the Forward option too, simply because i believe committee via defense is easier than scoring. It's easier with a good coach to have a sound defensive core assuming you have sufficient talent than it is to score goals. Plus, Forwards transition to the NHL historically easier than Defenseman. I think elite Forwards in a draft our simply a safer strategical bet.

Not to say Jones won't become the best player from this draft (Though how you define best is interesting in itself), and i'd be very happy to have him. It's really close, and hence tbh, i frankly am not particularly fussed who we take, since i believe the top 6 are all fantastic prospects. Plus, it's not my decision, so why worry!

BPA is impacted by your particular beliefs and models, but i agree. I simply don't agree with making picks based on who brings the biggest gate. I think that would be silly.

Side note ; TSN has a video where Mckenzie and Button both state that Nichushkin on ability is in contention for best Forward available in the draft. Quite interesting, and certainly adds credence to the idea that we have Jones and IMO 6 High end forwards that comprise the first tier of talent available in this draft. They did also state due to his contract with Traktor that he's a likely candidate to fall relative to his abilities. It's a rather shortsighted idea, frankly, given we're drafting 18 year kids who have 20 years of professional hockey ahead of them. Waiting 2/3 years wouldn't bother me if he's going to be a high end NHL player. Constantly amazed by rational and impatience of people in all walks of life. The Russian factor/, I.e the ability to lure them over to NA, is so overblown. Elite Russian players do come to North America. The flight risk is a bigger proble, than getting them here. Personally, the thing that worries me more about Nichushkin is alround offensive player ; hockey IQ and passing skills. Admittedly, i haven't seen that much of him to give a fair analysis.


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Old
03-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #475
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I love your analogies, J17.

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