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04-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #651
AmericanJedi
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Do you understand what the word deserve means? It means worthy of merit, or to be entitled to something.

Bad management and decision making for years on end doesn't equate with the word merit. It isn't as if we've been blocked from success, we are where we are because we're a badly run organisation. If i have a giant butt on my face and can't get women, do i deserve a supermodel for one night?

Secondly, the system decides who "deserves" to pick #1, #2 etc. Previous seasons have absolutely no relation to how distrubtion of the current draft crop. It is purely decided on that seasons standings. We've had multiple top ten picks in the last ten years with the ability to get this "superstar". Cry me a river with this self pity.

Finally, loyal fans has absolutely nothing to do with merit. Simply because you follow your team passionately doesn't mean the Florida organisation is entitled anymore to a particular player than any other organisation, who reside in the same distrubution system, who presumably have equally passionate fans. I can't even begin to comprehend how you can prove Florida fans "are the most loyal fans" on the planet.

I as a fan don't deserve anything. Self pity and fallicious self entitlement are useless.
Dude, why are you always so confrontational? Every fan-base deserves to be rewarded with a superstar. That’s all he was saying, and you took it as an opportunity to puff your chest out and condescendingly define ‘deserve’. If you can’t participate in this sort of environment without being so critical of romanticism, then you shouldn’t participate. I understand that you have a LOT of knowledge, and are an invaluable member, but you’ve anointed yourself to the position of ‘professor’ or something. There was a productive way to use your smarts to discuss the lottery system's ability to rightfully distribute high draft picks, but that wasn’t it.

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04-08-2013, 03:23 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Do you understand what the word deserve means? It means worthy of merit, or to be entitled to something.

Bad management and decision making for years on end doesn't equate with the word merit. It isn't as if we've been blocked from success, we are where we are because we're a badly run organisation. If i have a giant butt on my face and can't get women, do i deserve a supermodel for one night?

Secondly, the system decides who "deserves" to pick #1, #2 etc. Previous seasons have absolutely no relation to how distrubtion of the current draft crop. It is purely decided on that seasons standings. We've had multiple top ten picks in the last ten years with the ability to get this "superstar". Cry me a river with this self pity.

Finally, loyal fans has absolutely nothing to do with merit. Simply because you follow your team passionately doesn't mean the Florida organisation is entitled anymore to a particular player than any other organisation, who reside in the same distrubution system, who presumably have equally passionate fans. I can't even begin to comprehend how you can prove Florida fans "are the most loyal fans" on the planet.

I as a fan don't deserve anything. Self pity and fallicious self entitlement are useless.
While I agree with your definition of the word "deserve", I have to disagree to some extent with the being "blocked" success. I could be wrong, so don't tar and feather me too soon, but wasn't Fla denied the 1st overall pick where we could've gotten Crosby in the draft? I remember reading something about Fla being denied because we didn't use the ping pong balls correctly in the past drafts, or something along those lines. Again, I could be wrong but if I'm not,isn't that "blocking" us from success? Could you imagine what kind of success Crosby could've brought to this organization? What about the countless bad officiating we have received over the years? I know each and every team has their fair share of bad officiating, and I also know that we can't ignore the lazy plays and bad games that the team has, but some of that bad officiating DID "blocked" our success. I do remember Fla scoring a goal against NJ last season in the playoffs that could've won us the series, but the goal was disallowed by officials. What would've happened if we actually followed the same path as NJ,and made it to the finals? Even if we lost to LA, we still would've went from bottom dwellers to Eastern Conference Champs. That seems like success right? Could you imagine what kind of respect and possible success as a franchise we could've had *if* the Panthers did follow that path? Again, I am not bitter with whatever happened last year,in previous years, or in previous games with bad calls and such , I'm merely making a point that in some ways I do believe the NHL does hold the Panther back from success.I don't think we deserve any special treatment for any of the mentioned above but Maybe they too(The NHL), much like most of Canada, doesn't believe we deserve a professional hockey team.

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Old
04-08-2013, 03:34 PM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Do you understand what the word deserve means? It means worthy of merit, or to be entitled to something.

Bad management and decision making for years on end doesn't equate with the word merit. It isn't as if we've been blocked from success, we are where we are because we're a badly run organisation. If i have a giant butt on my face and can't get women, do i deserve a supermodel for one night?

Secondly, the system decides who "deserves" to pick #1, #2 etc. Previous seasons have absolutely no relation to how distrubtion of the current draft crop. It is purely decided on that seasons standings. We've had multiple top ten picks in the last ten years with the ability to get this "superstar". Cry me a river with this self pity.

Finally, loyal fans has absolutely nothing to do with merit. Simply because you follow your team passionately doesn't mean the Florida organisation is entitled anymore to a particular player than any other organisation, who reside in the same distrubution system, who presumably have equally passionate fans. I can't even begin to comprehend how you can prove Florida fans "are the most loyal fans" on the planet.

I as a fan don't deserve anything. Self pity and fallicious self entitlement are useless.
You also realize the word Deserve can be used in different ways? Like a guy who gets cancer, his house burns down, an his dog dies you might say that guy deserves a break. It doesn't really mean you think he has done something to earn it you just think hey he's suffered enough give him a break. Chill out already.

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04-08-2013, 03:45 PM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJedi View Post
Dude, why are you always so confrontational? Every fan-base deserves to be rewarded with a superstar. That’s all he was saying, and you took it as an opportunity to puff your chest out and condescendingly define ‘deserve’. If you can’t participate in this sort of environment without being so critical of romanticism, then you shouldn’t participate. I understand that you have a LOT of knowledge, and are an invaluable member, but you’ve anointed yourself to the position of ‘professor’ or something. There was a productive way to use your smarts to discuss the lottery system's ability to rightfully distribute high draft picks, but that wasn’t it.
There are many people who are far more knowledgable on a variety of hockey topics than myself. I only watch the NHL part-time. Invaluable i am not, esp with the infraction totals

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04-08-2013, 03:52 PM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
While I agree with your definition of the word "deserve", I have to disagree to some extent with the being "blocked" success. I could be wrong, so don't tar and feather me too soon, but wasn't Fla denied the 1st overall pick where we could've gotten Crosby in the draft?
No, Florida was simply given one ball due to previous high end picks. We wern't blocked Crosby. Indeed, we still had a small % to win that pick. Since no season existed, there was never going to be a fair way to determine who selected where.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
I remember reading something about Fla being denied because we didn't use the ping pong balls correctly in the past drafts, or something along those lines. Again, I could be wrong but if I'm not,isn't that "blocking" us from success?
The system to organise the 1st round of 2005 didn't help us, but it also didn't help other teams too. We were not blocked from Crosby. Anyhow, 28 other organisations don't have Crosby either, and in the last ten years have found success. Luck is of course a factor in success, but over 10 years of failure can't be blamed on luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
Could you imagine what kind of success Crosby could've brought to this organization? What about the countless bad officiating we have received over the years? I know each and every team has their fair share of bad officiating, and I also know that we can't ignore the lazy plays and bad games that the team has, but some of that bad officiating DID "blocked" our success. I do remember Fla scoring a goal against NJ last season in the playoffs that could've won us the series, but the goal was disallowed by officials. What would've happened if we actually followed the same path as NJ,and made it to the finals? Even if we lost to LA, we still would've went from bottom dwellers to Eastern Conference Champs. That seems like success right? Could you imagine what kind of respect and possible success as a franchise we could've had *if* the Panthers did follow that path? Again, I am not bitter with whatever happened last year,in previous years, or in previous games with bad calls and such , I'm merely making a point that in some ways I do believe the NHL does hold the Panther back from success.I don't think we deserve any special treatment for any of the mentioned above but Maybe they too(The NHL), much like most of Canada, doesn't believe we deserve a professional hockey team.
The NHL has never held Florida back. What you discuss is random luck (Such as goal disallowed). I am sure this unfortunate instances have happened to many teams over the last 10-15 years. Over that span, injuries, bad officiating, draft tiers relative to selection etc will have happened to all teams, both positively and negatively.

The reason Florida hasn't had success is because we've been a poorly run organisation, with poor drafting, a poor development system, poor trading and asset management due to a merrygo of GM's. How does the above link to "deserve" or "blocked"?

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04-08-2013, 03:56 PM
  #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
You also realize the word Deserve can be used in different ways? Like a guy who gets cancer, his house burns down, an his dog dies you might say that guy deserves a break. It doesn't really mean you think he has done something to earn it you just think hey he's suffered enough give him a break. Chill out already.
Like winning the lottery? No, he doesn't deserve to win the lottery. It might be nice, but he doesn't deserve it anymore than other people.

The user was suggesting our fans deserve it more than other fans. How so? As if to say we care more, that we've been through more, and that we are entitled to see success. Well if that is the case, then we are no better than some traditionalists saying we don't deserve a team. Why do i deserve something any more than a Columbus fan or a Montreal fan or a NYR fan? Why am i more loyal. They have die hard fans too. Delusions of self pity ... well, i go through those when i have bad sessions at poker, but it doesn't help me or anybody.

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04-08-2013, 04:13 PM
  #657
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I would like Monahan if we dont draft top3. Produced amazingly for Ottawa, and I'm just thinking what kind of sick numbers he would put up on a better team.

78 point in 58 games, on a team that just won 16 games this season. Second highest was 51, but he played on Plymouth before he was traded. Third highest was 40 points.

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04-08-2013, 05:25 PM
  #658
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Replace "deserve" with "need".

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04-08-2013, 05:28 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
I would like Monahan if we dont draft top3. Produced amazingly for Ottawa, and I'm just thinking what kind of sick numbers he would put up on a better team.

78 point in 58 games, on a team that just won 16 games this season. Second highest was 51, but he played on Plymouth before he was traded. Third highest was 40 points.
Why do people compare him to Jonathan Toews?

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04-08-2013, 05:46 PM
  #660
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Why do people compare him to Jonathan Toews?
He has a similar intensity in the eyes, similar swagger and leadership qualities. He's very gritty and very skilled. He's a great playmaker like Toews, and doesn't hesitate to play in traffic. Most of his goals are scored within 10 feet of the net. Similar size, similar skating. He actually compares himself to Toews.

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04-08-2013, 06:36 PM
  #661
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hopefully the CGY-COL game tonight goes into OT....

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04-08-2013, 06:37 PM
  #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
He has a similar intensity in the eyes, similar swagger and leadership qualities. He's very gritty and very skilled. He's a great playmaker like Toews, and doesn't hesitate to play in traffic. Most of his goals are scored within 10 feet of the net. Similar size, similar skating. He actually compares himself to Toews.
How do the other prospects stack up in terms of maturity, leadership, and character?

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04-08-2013, 06:44 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
He has a similar intensity in the eyes, similar swagger and leadership qualities. He's very gritty and very skilled. He's a great playmaker like Toews, and doesn't hesitate to play in traffic. Most of his goals are scored within 10 feet of the net. Similar size, similar skating. He actually compares himself to Toews.
Well, so are Huberdeau's - that's where the high percentage shots are.

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04-08-2013, 07:02 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
How do the other prospects stack up in terms of maturity, leadership, and character?
If I had to rank them I guess it would go:

Monahan
Barkov
MacKinnon
Jones
Nurse
Domi
Nichushkin
Drouin
Lindholm
Ristolainen
Shinkaruk
Erne
Gauthier
Zadorov

That's for the top prospects. Pretty tough to rank something like that though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Well, so are Huberdeau's - that's where the high percentage shots are.
Yeah, Huby isn't afraid to get dirty either. It's more admirable for him because he's not that big. My point is Monahan's not a perimeter player. Other players in the draft like Drouin, for example, are.

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04-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
If I had to rank them I guess it would go:

Monahan
Barkov
MacKinnon
Jones
Nurse
Domi
Nichushkin
Drouin
Lindholm
Ristolainen
Shinkaruk
Erne
Gauthier
Zadorov

That's for the top prospects. Pretty tough to rank something like that though.




Yeah, Huby isn't afraid to get dirty either. It's more admirable for him because he's not that big. My point is Monahan's not a perimeter player. Other players in the draft like Drouin, for example, are.
MR, or J17, how would you rank the prospects in terms of NHL readiness?

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04-08-2013, 08:27 PM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
If I had to rank them I guess it would go:

Monahan
Barkov
MacKinnon
Jones
Nurse
Domi
Nichushkin
Drouin
Lindholm
Ristolainen
Shinkaruk
Erne
Gauthier
Zadorov

That's for the top prospects. Pretty tough to rank something like that though.




Yeah, Huby isn't afraid to get dirty either. It's more admirable for him because he's not that big. My point is Monahan's not a perimeter player. Other players in the draft like Drouin, for example, are.
He sounds like exactly the kind of player I like...and while Drouin's highlights are awesome, I'm not completely sold on him in the NHL. I like skilled players willing to go to the dirty areas.

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04-08-2013, 08:29 PM
  #667
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At least we can all take satisfaction in watching Carolina dive so hard in the standings

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04-08-2013, 09:04 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJedi View Post
MR, or J17, how would you rank the prospects in terms of NHL readiness?
Jones
Mac
Barkov
Drouin
Nichushkin
Monahan
Zadorov
Ristolainen
Nurse
Lindholm
Erne
Gauthier
Shinkaruk
Domi

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04-08-2013, 10:32 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Do you understand what the word deserve means? It means worthy of merit, or to be entitled to something.

Bad management and decision making for years on end doesn't equate with the word merit. It isn't as if we've been blocked from success, we are where we are because we're a badly run organisation. If i have a giant butt on my face and can't get women, do i deserve a supermodel for one night?

Secondly, the system decides who "deserves" to pick #1, #2 etc. Previous seasons have absolutely no relation to how distrubtion of the current draft crop. It is purely decided on that seasons standings. We've had multiple top ten picks in the last ten years with the ability to get this "superstar". Cry me a river with this self pity.

Finally, loyal fans has absolutely nothing to do with merit. Simply because you follow your team passionately doesn't mean the Florida organisation is entitled anymore to a particular player than any other organisation, who reside in the same distrubution system, who presumably have equally passionate fans. I can't even begin to comprehend how you can prove Florida fans "are the most loyal fans" on the planet.

I as a fan don't deserve anything. Self pity and fallicious self entitlement are useless.
My response was opinionated and not based on science, since you want a hard science response ill give you one "smart guy". By your definition than no one deserves anything and we are just pieces of a random puzzle. Which in fact we are not. I sincerely believe logic and reasoning should become part of the curriculum in all colleges/universities worldwide. Explain to me how an explanation of the lottery system and who gets to pick first has anything to do with what "you think" is the definition of deserve. Impartial static subjects being compared to opinionated responses are like comparing monkey personalities to used tires on the road. If your going to try and be "tough" with logic and reasoning at least use it correctly with proper context and analysis. The word "deserve" itself is subjected to multiple points of view and has no proper grounds for absolute definition. Go back to school and learn your fallacies informal, formal, ad hominem , appeal to pity and so on and so forth. Your slippery slope response to what you conceive as "pity" is just that. Exaggerated like a Shakespearean play, perhaps some people here are not privy to proper analysis so they can't see the multiple errors in reasoning you just demonstrated. When we text our friends we don't sound like English professors, since you want to flaunt your sub-par "intellect" on a hockey board at least do it properly. Who's to say that because we are in the same distribution system we don't "deserve" someone more than the other. How can you define deserve without knowledge of all impeding factors which would be impossible to do since it is impossible to know all factors being weighted? How can you determine that a teams previous sufferance has no correlation to a turn in luck. All I see in your post is self pity blah blah. There is no self pity and I am no crying Jane. Just stating that bad circumstances could merit us some good in the future which you have provided no counter argument against.

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04-08-2013, 11:00 PM
  #670
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Well that escalated quickly..

its a pretty nice draft so were gonna get someone nice

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04-08-2013, 11:39 PM
  #671
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Holy cow is Colorado awful. They deserve the number one overall. Jk. The standings will determine the probability of chance and the lottery will determine the outcome of the draft order.

For the time being, we're back in 29th with a game up on Calgary. A couple games this week including a roadie in Winnipeg.. Tough challenge!! I like our chances!!


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04-08-2013, 11:58 PM
  #672
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Calgary flames fan wondering who guys would take?

Avalache fans want: Jones
Flames fan want: MaC
TBL fans want: Jones or Drouin

who do you guys want ?

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04-09-2013, 12:25 AM
  #673
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id say FLA fans want either mackinnon or drouin. either one will do. pretty much equal in my eyes, but i think most would give a slight edge to mac. but either one of those.

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04-09-2013, 12:49 AM
  #674
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04-09-2013, 03:43 AM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJedi View Post
MR, or J17, how would you rank the prospects in terms of NHL readiness?
I think it's hard to rank them as such, since it will often come down to how they are handled and coached by their NHL team. Won't rank, but he is my take :

Monahan - I think would be capable of being in the NHL next year. Big framed player who is responsible thus is not a liability. An extra year of Junior on a good team wouldn't hurt, but nor would the NHL.

Barkov - Similar case to Monahan. Frame, personality and responsibility mean he is probably capable of playing in the NHL next year. Though a final year in Finland dominating the league, playing for the national team etc would IMO be more beneficial. Barkov won't be an impact player at 18 despite being mature and ready, so give him another year.

Mackinnon - Definitely the most NHL ready. Without doubt i think he is NHL bound

Jones - NHL bound for sure. Can skate at the NHL level and has the frame. How quickly he translate who knows, look at Hedman/Larsson, but he'll definitely be in the NHL.

Nurse - Size/skating is NHL ready, but why rush him?

Domi - Not NHL ready

Nichushkin - Some people believe he could be, i do not. Physical attributes are crazy but still has only played 30 odd games of professional hockey. Let him stay in Russia for 2 years, watch his game blossom, then bring him over as he is NHL ready. Lucky he is contracted to Traktor for 2 years, because bringing him over early would be a mistake IMO

Drouin - Depends on the team that takes him. Huberdeau didn't make the NHL right away, so Drouin may not ever. This is where team preferences will be the deciding factor.

Lindholm - Let him stay in Sweden another year. An extra year in Sweden >>> the NHL at 18 for him.

Ristolainen - Decision making isn't ready for the NHL. He'll remain in Finland for a year or two.

Shinkaruk - Limited views on him, but i would imagine he'll stay in the WHL.

Erne - Not ready. Hasn't put together his abilities to maximise production in the Q yet, and some concerns over maturity apparently exist.

Gauthier - Struggled down the stretch in the Q. Offensive game is questionable, needs to be developed. Responsible player, but would get killed in the NHL from an offensive point of view. Worth noting he is falling in the rankings.

Zadorov - Not NHL ready. Needs to improve mobility still, offensive game isn't there yet. Has good offensive abilities but simply needs to refine and develop them in the OHL before he begin to think about the NHL. He is all about untapped potential.

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