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Old
04-17-2013, 03:00 PM
  #851
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Yeah, a tank for nothing is going a bit too far. Jones is also ranked #1 by most scouting services, and a lot of scouts think he will go #1. I understand most people want offense, but at least appreciate how good Jones is.

I still don't think we will finish 30th though. I think the team picking #1 will draft Jones. Hopefully we have the #2 pick and draft MacKinnon.

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04-17-2013, 03:51 PM
  #852
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We are third worst in GF once again. So we have to go offense!

I am all for MacKinnon!!!

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Old
04-17-2013, 04:15 PM
  #853
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I think its going to be either Mac or Drouin. Tallon has stressed the importance of scoring goals, and trying to add that up front, and that is why I believe he goes with a forward in the draft. I just hope if both Mac and Drouin are available, he goes with Mac. But I just have a feeling that he might go with Drouin, and give us Kane and Toews 2.0.

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04-17-2013, 04:23 PM
  #854
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so who is Toews

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Old
04-17-2013, 05:39 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boothinator View Post
We are third worst in GF once again. So we have to go offense!

I am all for MacKinnon!!!
I'm with you. Mac would be a great choice imo.

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Old
04-17-2013, 06:23 PM
  #856
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Just hope we don't draft the winger called Jonathan ! We already add that when we drafted Huberdeau as a center !

Go with the centerman ! Go with the dynamic guy ! Go with the electric skating !

Go with MacKinnon !


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04-17-2013, 08:26 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
I wouldn't go that far lol.... Jones is ranked one of the top players in the draft for a reason. By no means would it be a tank for nothing. I would be disappointed if we have a chance to pick Mac and we don't but Jones is also a good player.


I didn't mean any disrespect to Jones I'm sure he is going to be a great player but i just feel that this team needs more goal scoring on a consistent basis.

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04-17-2013, 08:41 PM
  #858
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I didn't mean any disrespect to Jones I'm sure he is going to be a great player but i just feel that this team needs more goal scoring on a consistent basis.
I agree with you

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:28 PM
  #859
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flames leads 1-0

omg

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Old
04-17-2013, 09:31 PM
  #860
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I honestly rather get the #2 pick at this point. Because whoever picks #1 will probably pick Jones and then it will be more of a chance that Tallon picks MacKinnon, although I don't know if he likes Drouin more (I hope not).

And even if someone picks MacKinnon at #1 and we pick Jones or Drouin or whoever at #2, I would feel better about that then if the Panthers pick #1 and pick Jones over MacKinnon.

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04-17-2013, 11:11 PM
  #861
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Small but good night for the tank:

Calgary wins
Buffalo wins in overtime

-ghoste

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Old
04-18-2013, 06:12 AM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haj View Post
Its never bad to have a surplus of good defensemen.

For one thing, none of our defense prospects are the complete package. Seth Jones looks like he can do it all, score, move the puck and play physical.
I thought people were saying Jones is soft as butter?

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Old
04-18-2013, 06:22 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Boooooth10 View Post
I thought people were saying Jones is soft as butter?
what i've heard is that he's big enough to play physical but he isn't as physical as he should be...

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Old
04-18-2013, 07:50 AM
  #864
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Small but good night for the tank:

Calgary wins
Buffalo wins in overtime

-ghoste

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Old
04-18-2013, 08:01 AM
  #865
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saw this in the numbers area on hfboards, but it's interesting.

this is the fenwick system

Team - Games Remaining - Avg Opp Fenwick

Montreal - 10 - 47.81
Winnipeg - 8 - 48.3
Anaheim - 9 - 48.71
Edmonton - 10 - 48.97
Los Angeles - 9 - 48.98
Ottawa - 10 - 49.39
NY Rangers - 10 - 49.45
NY Islanders - 9 - 49.47
Calgary - 11 - 49.51
Vancouver - 10 - 49.51
Boston - 11 - 49.53
St. Louis - 11 - 49.65
Tampa Bay - 10 - 49.78
Chicago - 10 - 49.92
Minnesota - 10 - 50.01
Colorado - 10 - 50.15
San Jose - 10 - 50.35
Carolina - 11 - 50.46
Columbus - 9 - 50.47
Washington - 9 - 50.58
Pittsburgh - 9 - 50.63
Buffalo - 9 - 50.67
Phoenix - 10 - 50.77
Florida - 9 - 50.81
Nashville - 8 - 51.04
New Jersey - 9 - 51.06
Toronto - 10 - 51.23
Philadelphia - 10 - 51.31
Detroit - 9 - 51.4
Dallas - 10 - 52.82


the higher the fenwick, the harder the opponents

so, statistically, we're pretty set.

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Old
04-18-2013, 08:04 AM
  #866
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Here's Madhatter's look at the top teams' defensive acquisitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter73 View Post
Examples (Top 6 teams - Current Rosters - more than 20 games played):

Chicago
Keith - Drafted 11 years ago - 2nd round - 54th overall
Seabrook - Drafted 10 years ago - 14th overall
Hjalmarsson - Drafted 8 years ago - 4th Round
Oduya - trade from Jets for 2 & 3 rnd picks.
Brookbank - UFA
Leddy - Trade from Minny

Pittsburgh
Orpik - Drafted 13 years ago - 18th overall
Martin - UFA
Engelland - UFA
Niskanen - Trade from Dallas
Letang - Drafted 8 years ago - 3rd round
Despris - Drafted 7 years ago - 30th overall

Anaheim
Souray - UFA
Lydman - UFA
Allen - UFA
Beauchemin - Trade w/Toronto
Lovejoy - Trade w/Pitt
Sbisa - Trade w/Philly

Montreal
Bouillon - Waivers
Markov - Drafted 15 years ago - 162 overall
Gorges - Trade with SJ
Emelin - Drafted 9 years ago - 3rd round
Subban - Drafted 6 years ago - 2nd round

Boston
Chara - UFA
Ference - Trade w/Calgary
Seidenberg - Trade w/FLA
Boychuk - Trade w/Colorado
McQuaid - Trade w/Columbus
Hamilton - Drafted 2 years ago - 9th overall

Vancouver
Hamhuis - UFA
Bieksa - Drafted 12 years ago - 5th round
Ballard - Trade w/FLA
Edler - Drafted 9 years ago - 3rd round
Garrison - (We know what happened here - UFA)
Tanev - Undrafted FA
And here's how the same teams acquired their top 6 offensive players.

CHICAGO
Kane - Drafted 6 years ago - 1st Overall
Toews - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Overall
Hossa - UFA (12-year deal)
Saad - Drafted 2 years ago - 2nd round
Bickel - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd round
Stalberg - Trade w/ Toronto (Versteeg deal)

PITTSBURGH
Crosby - Drafted 8 years ago - 1st Overall
Kunitz - Trade w/ Anaheim (Ryan Whitney deal)
Dupuis - Trade w/ Atlanta (Hossa deal)
Neal - Trade w/ Dallas (Goligosky deal)
Malkin - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Overall
Cooke - UFA

ANAHEIM
Getzlaf - Drafted 10 years ago - 19th Overall
Perry - Drafted 10 years ago - 28th Overall
Ryan - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Overall
Koivu - UFA
Selanne - UFA
Cogliano - Trade with Edmonton (2nd Round Pick)

MONTREAL
Pacioretty - Drafted 6 years ago - 22nd Overall
Plekanec - Drafted 12 years ago - 3rd Round
Desharnais - Undrafted FA
Gionta - UFA
Eller - Trade with Boston (Halak deal)
Gallagher - Drafted 3 years ago - 5th Round

BOSTON
Marchand - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Round
Bergeron - Drafted 10 years ago - 2nd Round
Krejci - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd Round
Seguin - Drafted 3 years ago - 2nd Overall
Lucic - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Round
Horton - Trade with Florida

VANCOUVER
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 3rd Overall
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 2nd Overall
Burrows - UFA
Hansen - Drafted 9 years ago - 9th Round
Raymond - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Round
Higgins - Trade with Florida

There are 8 guys here who were top 3 picks on offense. 0 of the players on defense above were top 3 picks. So there's a big difference even when you discount generational talents of the Crosby/Malkin caliber who won't be available at the draft.

It's historically been less likely to pick a difference-maker early, and the ones you do pick must go through a long learning process (Tallon always says 300 games) followed by free agency a couple years later. It doesn't mean you shouldn't pick defense early, but offense should get a hefty benefit of the doubt.

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Old
04-18-2013, 08:53 AM
  #867
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Jones could stand to be more physical, but this is just another case of trying to find any weaknesses possible that happens to top picks every year. He is far from soft as butter.

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04-18-2013, 09:44 AM
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wint View Post
Here's Madhatter's look at the top teams' defensive acquisitions.



And here's how the same teams acquired their top 6 offensive players.

CHICAGO
Kane - Drafted 6 years ago - 1st Overall
Toews - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Overall
Hossa - UFA (12-year deal)
Saad - Drafted 2 years ago - 2nd round
Bickel - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd round
Stalberg - Trade w/ Toronto (Versteeg deal)

PITTSBURGH
Crosby - Drafted 8 years ago - 1st Overall
Kunitz - Trade w/ Anaheim (Ryan Whitney deal)
Dupuis - Trade w/ Atlanta (Hossa deal)
Neal - Trade w/ Dallas (Goligosky deal)
Malkin - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Overall
Cooke - UFA

ANAHEIM
Getzlaf - Drafted 10 years ago - 19th Overall
Perry - Drafted 10 years ago - 28th Overall
Ryan - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Overall
Koivu - UFA
Selanne - UFA
Cogliano - Trade with Edmonton (2nd Round Pick)

MONTREAL
Pacioretty - Drafted 6 years ago - 22nd Overall
Plekanec - Drafted 12 years ago - 3rd Round
Desharnais - Undrafted FA
Gionta - UFA
Eller - Trade with Boston (Halak deal)
Gallagher - Drafted 3 years ago - 5th Round

BOSTON
Marchand - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Round
Bergeron - Drafted 10 years ago - 2nd Round
Krejci - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd Round
Seguin - Drafted 3 years ago - 2nd Overall
Lucic - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Round
Horton - Trade with Florida

VANCOUVER
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 3rd Overall
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 2nd Overall
Burrows - UFA
Hansen - Drafted 9 years ago - 9th Round
Raymond - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Round
Higgins - Trade with Florida

There are 8 guys here who were top 3 picks on offense. 0 of the players on defense above were top 3 picks. So there's a big difference even when you discount generational talents of the Crosby/Malkin caliber who won't be available at the draft.

It's historically been less likely to pick a difference-maker early, and the ones you do pick must go through a long learning process (Tallon always says 300 games) followed by free agency a couple years later. It doesn't mean you shouldn't pick defense early, but offense should get a hefty benefit of the doubt.
good post

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:07 AM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Jones could stand to be more physical, but this is just another case of trying to find any weaknesses possible that happens to top picks every year. He is far from soft as butter.
Another Bouw? I thought we're supposed to learn from past mistakes and all...

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:12 AM
  #870
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Just seen a pic of Mac at the driving range. Tallon is definitely picking this kid, haha. J/k

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:14 AM
  #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wint View Post
Here's Madhatter's look at the top teams' defensive acquisitions.



And here's how the same teams acquired their top 6 offensive players.

CHICAGO
Kane - Drafted 6 years ago - 1st Overall
Toews - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Overall
Hossa - UFA (12-year deal)
Saad - Drafted 2 years ago - 2nd round
Bickel - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd round
Stalberg - Trade w/ Toronto (Versteeg deal)

PITTSBURGH
Crosby - Drafted 8 years ago - 1st Overall
Kunitz - Trade w/ Anaheim (Ryan Whitney deal)
Dupuis - Trade w/ Atlanta (Hossa deal)
Neal - Trade w/ Dallas (Goligosky deal)
Malkin - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Overall
Cooke - UFA

ANAHEIM
Getzlaf - Drafted 10 years ago - 19th Overall
Perry - Drafted 10 years ago - 28th Overall
Ryan - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Overall
Koivu - UFA
Selanne - UFA
Cogliano - Trade with Edmonton (2nd Round Pick)

MONTREAL
Pacioretty - Drafted 6 years ago - 22nd Overall
Plekanec - Drafted 12 years ago - 3rd Round
Desharnais - Undrafted FA
Gionta - UFA
Eller - Trade with Boston (Halak deal)
Gallagher - Drafted 3 years ago - 5th Round

BOSTON
Marchand - Drafted 7 years ago - 3rd Round
Bergeron - Drafted 10 years ago - 2nd Round
Krejci - Drafted 9 years ago - 2nd Round
Seguin - Drafted 3 years ago - 2nd Overall
Lucic - Drafted 7 years ago - 2nd Round
Horton - Trade with Florida

VANCOUVER
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 3rd Overall
Sedin - Drafted 14 years ago - 2nd Overall
Burrows - UFA
Hansen - Drafted 9 years ago - 9th Round
Raymond - Drafted 8 years ago - 2nd Round
Higgins - Trade with Florida

There are 8 guys here who were top 3 picks on offense. 0 of the players on defense above were top 3 picks. So there's a big difference even when you discount generational talents of the Crosby/Malkin caliber who won't be available at the draft.

It's historically been less likely to pick a difference-maker early, and the ones you do pick must go through a long learning process (Tallon always says 300 games) followed by free agency a couple years later. It doesn't mean you shouldn't pick defense early, but offense should get a hefty benefit of the doubt.
Great info. If I take your data and Madhatter's together, broadly speaking the implications seem to be:
-- Use your early picks on forwards
-- Be active in FA market (either forwards of dmen)
-- Pursue meaningful trades when dealing from some strength

I'm curious to see what DT does at draft and in the offseason.

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:59 AM
  #872
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We have needs at both defense and forward, but I can see us taking the best player available, if it's Jones, you take him. If it's MacKinnon you take him.

I personally think we struggle to score goals, and need a offensive player to go with our young group but as Tampa has proven you need defense or scoring the second or third most goals in the league doesn't matter one bit.

I would take Jones, pass on MacKinnon, that would give us a solid core of Jones-Kulikov, Gudbranson-Matheson Petrovic-Robak and Brennan not to mention a veteran or two like Campbell.

Remember, we will hopefully get a healthy Versteeg and may sign Weiss back along with another yr under Huberdeau's belt and Matthias improving offensively speaking we should be in good shape. Bergenheim should be back as well, it's not far fetched to see us taking Jones.

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:59 AM
  #873
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Another Bouw? I thought we're supposed to learn from past mistakes and all...
I was trying to explain that he's not another Bouw. Bouw was soft as butter. Jones is far from it.

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Old
04-18-2013, 11:12 AM
  #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
Small but good night for the tank:

Calgary wins
Buffalo wins in overtime

-ghoste
We're 12 points behind Buffalo with 6 games left. So one more point for them or lost point for us and we can eliminate them from the tank list. Kind of like a reverse clinching thing lol.

Worst case scenario - 6-0 (44 points), 11th pick (can catch 10 teams, lose another spot via lotto)

Can catch: BUF, PHX, PHI, NJ, EDM, CGY, NSH, TB, CAR, COL

A loss tonight and we can cross off Buffalo and Phoenix.

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittysGotClaws View Post
We're 12 points behind Buffalo with 6 games left. So one more point for them or lost point for us and we can eliminate them from the tank list. Kind of like a reverse clinching thing lol.

Worst case scenario - 6-0 (44 points), 11th pick (can catch 10 teams, lose another spot via lotto)

Can catch: BUF, PHX, PHI, NJ, EDM, CGY, NSH, TB, CAR, COL

A loss tonight and we can cross off Buffalo and Phoenix.
Booyah!

-ghoste

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