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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread II

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Old
01-29-2013, 08:55 AM
  #251
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Given the evidence, I find that conclusion odd.
You provided some evidence that he had better seasons at center than he had at right wing. While that does suggest he may have been a better center than winger, it doesn't prove it.

Moreover, even if you think it does prove it, that doesn't take away from his abilities as a RW. He was one of the most versatile players of his era, so there's no reason to think he can't play RW at ful effectiveness.


Last edited by Dreakmur: 01-29-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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Old
01-29-2013, 09:28 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
You provided some evidence that he had better seasons at center than he had at right wing. While that does suggest he may have been a better center than winger, it doesn't prove it.

Moreover, even if you think it does prove it, that doesn't take away from his abilities as a RW. He was one of the most versatile players of his era, so there's no reason to think he can't play RW at ful effectiveness.



At least his opinion by your own admission has *some* backing.

We often at least put a question mark on players playing out of position around here, don't we?

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01-29-2013, 09:53 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post



At least his opinion by your own admission has *some* backing.

We often at least put a question mark on players playing out of position around here, don't we?
First of all, Hooley Smith is NOT playing out of position. He was a very good RW. He was also a very good C.

Second, here is no rule for how each indiviual will evaluatea team. Every person has their own unique way of looking at thee kids of things.

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01-29-2013, 10:16 AM
  #254
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We select Brendan Shanahan.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:51 AM
  #255
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nanooks select C Peter Stastny.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Small premium to make sure I got him but very pleased to have Ronnie Franchise playing with Jagr!

Thanks for making the pick.
i figured you wanted francis. nice to see you got him.

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Originally Posted by gmm View Post
The Edmonton Mercurys are proud to select C Dave Keon.

http://mapleleafslegends.blogspot.co...dave-keon.html
several hours ago, i was unsure of my next pick, and then decided on keon, and was certain i would get him.

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01-29-2013, 10:52 AM
  #256
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[QUOTE=nik jr;58593627]nanooks select C Peter Stastny.

Good pick on Statsny, was looking to pick him next. 2nd highest points scorer in the 80's behind Wayne Gretzky.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:55 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
nanooks select C Peter Stastny
I don't understand why this guy has been taken outside the Top-100 in the last few drafts.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i figured you wanted francis. nice to see you got him.
Really excited that I did.

He is perfect for maximizing what I get from Jagr.

Just a great, great player. Going to be our captain too.

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01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I don't understand why this guy has been taken outside the Top-100 in the last few drafts.
Yeah he was second on our list right now that is quickly getting decimated.

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Old
01-29-2013, 10:56 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I don't understand why this guy has been taken outside the Top-100 in the last few drafts.
Because: 80s LOL.

Players who peaked in the 80s are becoming undervalued due to the constant put downs of the environment.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:12 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Good point. Doug's playoff resume is pretty bare. However, Doug did go into the HHOF first. Even though that's not always the best judge, in this scenario I think it is. The two were always going to be compared as brothers. I'm honestly shocked they didn't put them in together. But they both retired in 1954 on the Rangers, both played three WHL years after. Doug gets into the Hall in 1964, Max has to wait until 1966. That's a pretty large signifier to me which one was better in this situation.
Hmm, interesting, I never knew or thought of that before.

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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
The Guelph Platers are pleased to select

C Ron Francis
This is a step backwards. Francis should be falling, not rising.

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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
You'll think twice before skipping the ATD next year!

No, the opposite. This would be hell right now, being in the ATD with hfboards blocked at work. It is bad enough not being able to extensively comment throughout the day on others' picks.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:13 AM
  #262
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
nanooks select C Peter Stastny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I don't understand why this guy has been taken outside the Top-100 in the last few drafts.
Question: What makes Max Bentley or Sid Abel clearly better than Stastny? I understand some of the other centers getting selected over him because they bring a much better defensive game, but these two do not. I think their offensive resumes are very close, and Stastny's may actually be the best. Abel has a leadership edge over both.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:15 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I don't understand why this guy has been taken outside the Top-100 in the last few drafts.
Because he is an offense only center whose offensive resume merits selection outside of the top-100. Stastny in the top 100 was really just Canon, IMO.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:21 AM
  #264
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Keon and Stastny were my top two for my next pick.

Give me a few minutes.....

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #265
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Francis was my 3rd.....

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:33 AM
  #266
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For a change there's still some really good picks where I want them.

Do I go with the best pick available and read about how the chemistry isn't good with their linemates?

- or -

Do I go with a complimentary talent and read about how I goofed on the quality?

Ask me if I give a rat's ass.....

Two old schoolers I like, 1 O6 I like, about a half dozen or so modern era players I like....(feast or famine I guess).

The Boston Mules select: GILBERT PERREAULT


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Old
01-29-2013, 11:37 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
For a change there's still some really good picks where I want them.

Do I go with the best pick available and read about how the chemistry isn't good with their linemates?

- or -

Do I go with a complimentary talent and read about how I goofed on the quality?

Ask me if I give a rat's ass.....

Two old schoolers I like, 1 O6 I like, about a half dozen or so modern era players I like....(feast or famine I guess).

The Boston Mules select: GILBERT PERREAULT

one of the funniest players to watch , his natural talent was enormous.

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Old
01-29-2013, 11:45 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
one of the funniest players to watch , his natural talent was enormous.
Funniest or funnest?

On researching I discovered, like Neely, he had an excellent playoff resume but w/o a Cup, but no lack of trying either.....going to the finals once and losing to the dynastic Flyers team.

Perrault is 7th all-time among CTRS in playoff pts-per-game (35+games)/ 5th all-time in playoff assists-per-game.

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01-29-2013, 11:55 AM
  #269
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i thought a lot about perreault, b/c he and lafleur were linemates (with gretzky) in '81 canada cup, and apparently had great chemistry. perreault made the tournament's all star team despite playing getting injured halfway through the event.

but it was only 4 games, and against relatively weak opposition, and with gretzky.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:15 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Funniest or funnest?

On researching I discovered, like Neely, he had an excellent playoff resume but w/o a Cup, but no lack of trying either.....going to the finals once and losing to the dynastic Flyers team.

Perrault is 7th all-time among CTRS in playoff pts-per-game (35+games)/ 5th all-time in playoff assists-per-game.
Perrault should have gone earlier. definitly better than most of the guys directly before him.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:25 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
This is a step backwards. Francis should be falling, not rising.
Not for my team.

The argument always used against him (which I don't see as being totally fair honestly) is that his peak seasons were with Jagr. I have Jagr. He is exactly the kind of center I need with Jagr.

I wouldn't have bumped him up otherwise.

Outside of his peak he was a great all around player and leader for a very long time.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 01-29-2013 at 12:33 PM.
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Old
01-29-2013, 12:31 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
You provided some evidence that he had better seasons at center than he had at right wing. While that does suggest he may have been a better center than winger, it doesn't prove it.

Moreover, even if you think it does prove it, that doesn't take away from his abilities as a RW. He was one of the most versatile players of his era, so there's no reason to think he can't play RW at ful effectiveness.
There is no proof in this environment, so I don't know what the hell you expect or why you would use this tired old argument.

What I think is really not all that important. My opinion is derived from that of the voters and scorekeepers of the era, who seem to have unanimously considered Smith much better at center. Maybe it's just coincidence, but the massive majority of his best performances in scoring and awards voting came when he was playing the center position. This proves nothing, but it strongly suggests a conclusion which you evidently do not want to hear. Your problem.

If Hooley had some awards recognition or scoring success as a RW...if it was even remotely close to what he got as a C...I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it was not. Hooley Smith was a very good RW, as you say, but he was a Hall of Fame center.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:38 PM
  #273
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Stastny and Perreault were great players, but I don't think they were even clearly the best available centers. seventies is right...their past status was more a matter of canon than any rational placement. I have at least one remaining center above both of them, though it's probably not who most of you would expect.

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
For a change there's still some really good picks where I want them.

Do I go with the best pick available and read about how the chemistry isn't good with their linemates?

- or -

Do I go with a complimentary talent and read about how I goofed on the quality?

Ask me if I give a rat's ass.....

Two old schoolers I like, 1 O6 I like, about a half dozen or so modern era players I like....(feast or famine I guess).

The Boston Mules select: GILBERT PERREAULT

My favourite pick from you so far. Perreault gets slammed around here for his resume not living up to his talent level, but he's a classic case of the numbers and finishes not telling the whole story IMO.

''He was as good as anyone I played against from that time.'' - Bobby Clarke

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:13 PM
  #275
BubbaBoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Stastny and Perreault were great players, but I don't think they were even clearly the best available centers. seventies is right...their past status was more a matter of canon than any rational placement. I have at least one remaining center above both of them, though it's probably not who most of you would expect.
Oh I had a couple of old school CTRs rated slightly higher. One of which was a great goal scorer but who, (in theory), may not have meshed well with Neely.

The other was the one I was fretting most over. I would love to get him as my next CTR but I doubt he lasts to the end of this round, nevermiind my next pick.

There were about 4 or 5 modern day players that have some with a slight bump in overall numbers via longevity but none put up anywhere near the playoff numbers that Perrault did.

There's even a couple that I truly love as players, with above average skills and numbers but are more "heart" oriented players.....I may pick one of them in my next pick, I don't know yet.

Like I said, damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
My favourite pick from you so far. Perreault gets slammed around here for his resume not living up to his talent level, but he's a classic case of the numbers and finishes not telling the whole story IMO.

''He was as good as anyone I played against from that time.'' - Bobby Clarke
I think he was excellent within the context of his surroundings.

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