HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2013 - Draft Thread II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 05:50 PM
  #301
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stastny was pretty strong defensively towards the end of his career with the Devils after his offense had died down, but how was he in his prime? I thought I remembered reading some not very flattering things about his defense when he was in his scoring prime
Just a sample:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Book of Hockey
If Stastny could be compared in style to any other NHL superstar, it would be Bryan Trottier. Each has been creative with the puck, industrious to a fault, and able to score goals as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Hockey – Biography
He could expertly shoot, skate, check, and pass the puck.

….

He was approaching his mid-30s, but he did himself proud in New Jersey in a two-way role. What he had lost in speed and scoring touch he more than made up for in defensive ability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey News: Paul Stastny's Bio
Like his father, Peter, he owns tremendous playmaking acumen and two-way skills
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undradted
He had such a presence on the ice. What he could do offensively, defensively, physical game, speed game – he could play any kind of game. So, there was no question that from then on we had a good team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Fisher
He was the big, big talent on that team. He was the guy who took the key face-offs. He was the guy who scored the big goals. He was the guy that you couldn’t leave loose for a minute because he was the heart and soul of that team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladislav Tretiak
Peter Stastny was an extremely dangerous player, with or without the puck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The New York Times – November 10th, 1991
Playing on a team that emphasizes team defense, Stastny has arguably been the most effective two-way forward for the Devils (10-6-0), who were third in the league on defense going into tonight's games.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 05:51 PM
  #302
VanIslander
Hope for better 2015
 
VanIslander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stastny was pretty strong defensively towards the end of his career with the Devils after his offense had died down, ...
Well, he was expecteds to do some checking in New Jersey, that's for sure.

I was more impressed with Makarov's play away from the puck late in HIS career, along the boards and in his own end, than with Stastny's puck pressure. But, boy could Peter dangle! and anticipate.

VanIslander is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 05:52 PM
  #303
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stastny was pretty strong defensively towards the end of his career with the Devils after his offense had died down, but how was he in his prime? I thought I remembered reading some not very flattering things about his defense when he was in his scoring prime
above average, I'd say. Not a selke candidate but could probably steal some votes.

jkrx is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:07 PM
  #304
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
The quote from the "Great Book of Hockey" compares Stastny to Trottier in terms of his offense and his "industriousness." Nothing about defense.

The quote from Ultimate Hockey basically says he could check but then specifically mentions that he became a strong two-way player after his offense left him in NJ.

The Paul Stastny bio is pretty clear about its praise, but something tells me that getting an accurate description of old man Stastny wasn't their top priority.

The undrafted player is obviously Stastny's teammate.

Red Fisher says he was dangerous and good on faceoffs. Nothing about defense.

Tretiak says he was dangerous without the puck, but doesn't say how (from other things I've read, Stastny was known as a subtle cheap shot artist and I don't mean that as an insult).

And then we are left with the NY Times Quote - very strong praise, but again from after the time his offense left him.

Seems to me Stastny was probably a competent defensive player in his prime (I was wrong to think otherwise before), but that he didn't actually become known as a two-way player until his offense had slowed down quite a bit. Pretty common career curve actually.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:08 PM
  #305
Dwight
The French Tickler
 
Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 500
FWIW (re: Stastny), he and Bentley were two guys I was targeting to complement Joe Malone.

Dwight is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:10 PM
  #306
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,830
vCash: 500
A little confused with why Lindsay would have trouble playing with Kennedy and Conacher, but Abel will have no problems with Esposito? Isn't Esposito the exact opposite style of play of Lindsay/Howe?

markrander87 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:13 PM
  #307
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
A little confused with why Lindsay would have trouble playing with Kennedy and Conacher, but Abel will have no problems with Esposito? Isn't Esposito the exact opposite style of play of Lindsay/Howe?
Sid Abel can both shoot and pass, and is at his best at digging the puck out of corners and feeding it to his linemates. And he certainly doesn't need to play a speed game. How is that not the perfect linemate for Esposito?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:20 PM
  #308
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
For the record, if you wanted to mimic the Production Line, Ted Kennedy is a perfect center for Ted Lindsay - slow as dirt (Abel was known to have slowed down after not playing competitive hockey for 3 years because of the war, Kennedy was always slow apparently), and gritty as hell. More defensively proven than Abel too (I'd call Abel good, Kennedy great, but neither elite). But Lindsay isn't going to do much in transition with Conacher on the other wing.

On the other hand, Lindsay and Conacher could work together, but then I think you really need a playmaker for Conacher.

Basically, Conacher is the bigger problem with your line that I see - he's a guy who really needs a pure playmaker to get the most out of him IMO.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:22 PM
  #309
Dwight
The French Tickler
 
Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 500
Sorry guys, won't be much longer. I'm down to 2 choices and I just need to figure out who's the better option - I'll end up regretting either choice anyway

Dwight is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:25 PM
  #310
papershoes
Registered User
 
papershoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kenora, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I thought of starting a second line with him when I picked Brimsek, but decided I wouldn't know what to do with him. Despite the fact that he's an all-time great complete player, I think Keon would be awkward to build around. He's something of a tweener in a way - his offense isn't quite good enough to be the centerpiece of a scoring line, but it's too good to just be a checker.
In my opinion, if Fedorov's a first line ATD centre, Keon should be as well. Both have a similar number of top-10 finishes, and are strong defensively. Fedorov has a Hart, Keon has a Smythe. Fedorov one 1st team all star and, Keon two 2nd team all-stars.

papershoes is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:28 PM
  #311
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
Sorry guys, won't be much longer. I'm down to 2 choices and I just need to figure out who's the better option - I'll end up regretting either choice anyway
Swap me picks.... hopefully, I'll make the choice easy for you....

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:33 PM
  #312
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
In my opinion, if Fedorov's a first line ATD centre, Keon should be as well. Both have a similar number of top-10 finishes, and are strong defensively. Fedorov has a Hart, Keon has a Smythe. Fedorov one 1st team all star and, Keon two 2nd team all-stars.
You think Fedorov and Keon are comparable too?

I've said before that Keon kind of like Fedorov if Fedorov didn't have his Hart-winning year, but that's a big part of Fedorov's resume. I also think Sergei was a bit more of a consistently elite playoff scorer than Keon, though both were very good in the playoffs.

Funny because when I first made the comparison, it was in response to the GBCs of the world who laughed at the idea that Fedorov could ever come close to the sacred cow that is Dave Keon. My, times have changed.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:36 PM
  #313
Dwight
The French Tickler
 
Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 500
Alright, decision made. Gonna go with the top notch first pairing on defense.

Lionel Conacher, D

Dwight is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:37 PM
  #314
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You think Fedorov and Keon are comparable too?

I've said before that Keon kind of like Fedorov if Fedorov didn't have his Hart-winning year, but that's a big part of Fedorov's resume. I also think Sergei was a bit more of a consistently elite playoff scorer than Keon, though both were very good in the playoffs.

Funny because when I first made the comparison, it was in response to the GBCs of the world who laughed at the idea that Fedorov could ever come close to the sacred cow that is Dave Keon. My, times have changed.
I think your description is dead on. I was thinking the same. The gap shouldn't as big, but I think Fedorov deserve to be taken ahead of Keon pretty much in every situation.

EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:39 PM
  #315
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,830
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Sid Abel can both shoot and pass, and is at his best at digging the puck out of corners and feeding it to his linemates. And he certainly doesn't need to play a speed game. How is that not the perfect linemate for Esposito?
But didn't he have his best years playing with 2 speedier linemates?

markrander87 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:45 PM
  #316
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You think Fedorov and Keon are comparable too?

I've said before that Keon kind of like Fedorov if Fedorov didn't have his Hart-winning year, but that's a big part of Fedorov's resume. I also think Sergei was a bit more of a consistently elite playoff scorer than Keon, though both were very good in the playoffs.

Funny because when I first made the comparison, it was in response to the GBCs of the world who laughed at the idea that Fedorov could ever come close to the sacred cow that is Dave Keon. My, times have changed.
To add, I think Fedorov can play the set-up man role better than Keon and is therefore easier to build around. I also thinks his lower regular season offense gets forgiven more easily than Keon's because of how familiar we are with the story of him slacking in the regular season (with his team always still finishing as one of the top seeds) and then consistently stepping it up in the playoffs.

Hawkey Town 18 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:45 PM
  #317
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
But didn't he have his best years playing with 2 speedier linemates?
Abel was 5th in scoring before the war as a LW when Gordie Howe was still a pimply faced adolescent, but yes, most of his best years were as the slower center to two faster linemates. You haven't yet explained how his game doesn't translate into playing with Phil Esposito. I believe in building around your team's superstars (for me, that is Esposito and Coffey), but if every player in the ATD is to be reduced to only playing the exact same role he played in real life, this thing is reduced to a game of reuniting actual lines and nothing more.

Now why don't you do yourself a favor and draft a playmaker for Charlie Conacher.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:49 PM
  #318
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
All right, we're going Jarome Iginla, RW.

Probably to start off a second line. But who knows he might end up with Morenz and Joliat on the top line.

Dreak, can you PM next?

vecens24 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:52 PM
  #319
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
All right, we're going Jarome Iginla, RW.

Probably to start off a second line. But who knows he might end up with Morenz and Joliat on the top line.

Dreak, can you PM next?
I am next, no need to PM. Nice choice. No offense to Bubba, but I can't think of a single reason to draft Neely over Iginla.

Hawkey Town 18 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:53 PM
  #320
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
All right, we're going Jarome Iginla, RW.

Probably to start off a second line. But who knows he might end up with Morenz and Joliat on the top line.

Dreak, can you PM next?
Iginla immediatley sprung to my mind when we were having that discussion about a winger for those two...

Nice pick.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:55 PM
  #321
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Iginla immediatley sprung to my mind when we were having that discussion about a winger for those two...

Nice pick.
He likely will play on the 2nd line, but if things go a different direction, he might end up on the 1st.

I think it's safe to say Iginla will be our team's captain. We're very happy to get him.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:57 PM
  #322
Dwight
The French Tickler
 
Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
All right, we're going Jarome Iginla, RW.

Probably to start off a second line. But who knows he might end up with Morenz and Joliat on the top line.

Dreak, can you PM next?
Nice. I initially considered him, but figured he'd either be on my 2nd line or nothing. Didn't think he'd mesh well with Malone.

Dwight is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:57 PM
  #323
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
He likely will play on the 2nd line, but if things go a different direction, he might end up on the 1st.

I think it's safe to say Iginla will be our team's captain. We're very happy to get him.
I think Iginla should definitely play on a different line, but he's a good pick to play on the second line and play with them on the PP.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:59 PM
  #324
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
The 1931-32 season is of most interest here. That was the year that Smith was taken off of the S Line (semi permanently...though I understand that he was moved around a lot), and the very successful T - Smith - W line was formed, with both of Smith's wingers immediately breaking out offensively. This seems to have been what convinced management that Hooley's former linemates were expendable.
But isn't that the point. Smith's play at centre convinced Maroons management that on the line Smith was the right wing on, Smith was the straw that stirred the drink. When broken up, Smith continued to excel while the other took a clear step back. This doesn't mean Smith was better as a centre, it means Smith was better as a hockey player.

More importantly, should the fact that every coach that ever coached Smith gladly moved him around the roster like a queen on a chess board be a strong argument against him being superior at one position over the other. If he was significantly better at centre, why did every coach he ever had have him switch positions on a regular basis? The answer, he was so versatile that whatever role he played made the team better. He would often return to centre not because he was superior there, but because as the most all-round demanding position, that is where Canadian coaches put their best player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
At least his opinion by your own admission has *some* backing.

We often at least put a question mark on players playing out of position around here, don't we?
Smith is not playing out of position, Smith does not have out of position. From what I can gather, a rough estimate of his career would be:
40% centre
35% right wing
20% defenseman
5% left wing

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 06:59 PM
  #325
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
Nice. I initially considered him, but figured he'd either be on my 2nd line or nothing. Didn't think he'd mesh well with Malone.
I had Igilna at RW with Malone in my first draft, but I had Bobby Orr who I was using as the primary playmaker for the unit. I think the scheme met with mixed reactions.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.