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Are Leafs fans the worst in the NHL?

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:12 AM
  #126
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One should not conclude that frustrations that arise within fan bases over perpetual losing and the desire for change as anything more than a craving for success.

Perhaps fan apathy in accepting anything less is where the real issue lies.

Voicing ones opinion on something that is broken and not working, isn't necessarily considered wrong nor bad.

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01-28-2013, 11:21 AM
  #127
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Considering we havnt made the playoffs in like 10 years and still fill the seats I'd say we are some of the best fans.

Bipolar? O wow yes, were like a girlfriend with trust issues cause this team has screwed with us so many times.

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01-28-2013, 11:22 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Yes, leaf fans are 100% the worst fans in the NHL.

But for entirely different reasons than what the OP is suggesting.

The 'good' leaf fans are the ones that are critical of the pathetic organization. Not the ones blindly defending it.

The leafs are the richest team in the league with dramatic financial advantages over a substantial amount of the competition (even with the cap), yet still have the longest cup AND playoff drought.

If the leafs had 'good' fans, EVERY thread on this forum would be negative. EVERY fan should be utterly irate, posting entirely in all caps, wih bolded lettering.

Fans should be booing the team the very SECOND the team steps on the ice, till the very moment they leave. Even when we score... Even when we win a game (I know it's rare), we should boo.

Good leaf fans would be throwing waffles on the ice every possible second. Not just at home, but on the road. W have such a big fan base that we could do this. We should make the entire sport unplayable due to waffles. We should throw waffles at players on the street, at the acc at all times, at the leafs bus, and at the players families.

These are things that "good" fans would do.

Unfortunately, Toronto is full of terrible fans who blindly cheer and make excuses for he inexcusable.
So yes... The leafs DEFINITELY have te worst fans in the NHL.
Right.

That's how we'll get a better team in Toronto: by making it unplayable.

Seriously? That's your solution?

I understand that you're pissed off...we all are. This team has no right, rhyme or reason to be this bad for this long and management knows it. They deserve to be grilled.

Best way to do that? Boo when they deserve it....but cheer when they deserve it too. What you suggest would make us worse fans, not better.

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01-28-2013, 11:26 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Right.

That's how we'll get a better team in Toronto: by making it unplayable.

Seriously? That's your solution?

I understand that you're pissed off...we all are. This team has no right, rhyme or reason to be this bad for this long and management knows it. They deserve to be grilled.

Best way to do that? Boo when they deserve it....but cheer when they deserve it too. What you suggest would make us worse fans, not better.
The Alternative you suggest is to support whatever Monkey dresses in the Blue/White regardless of performance. There is no HONOUR in that methodology no matter how hard you try and convince yourself.

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01-28-2013, 11:34 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The Alternative you suggest is to support whatever Monkey dresses in the Blue/White regardless of performance. There is no HONOUR in that methodology no matter how hard you try and convince yourself.
No, the alternative I suggest is to be negative when you should and be positive when you should.

Not "make the game unplayable". What exactly does that accomplish except to ensure that nobody wants to play for the Leafs? Making a bad situation worse?

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01-28-2013, 12:40 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
No, the alternative I suggest is to be negative when you should and be positive when you should.

Not "make the game unplayable". What exactly does that accomplish except to ensure that nobody wants to play for the Leafs? Making a bad situation worse?
I've never been more Optimistic about this team. Lots to be happy about.

Unfortunately before we can make any significant gains some hard choices will need to be made. I don't understand why thats always perceived as 'Negative'.

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01-28-2013, 01:15 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Yes, leaf fans are 100% the worst fans in the NHL.

But for entirely different reasons than what the OP is suggesting.

The 'good' leaf fans are the ones that are critical of the pathetic organization. Not the ones blindly defending it.

The leafs are the richest team in the league with dramatic financial advantages over a substantial amount of the competition (even with the cap), yet still have the longest cup AND playoff drought.

If the leafs had 'good' fans, EVERY thread on this forum would be negative. EVERY fan should be utterly irate, posting entirely in all caps, wih bolded lettering.

Fans should be booing the team the very SECOND the team steps on the ice, till the very moment they leave. Even when we score... Even when we win a game (I know it's rare), we should boo.

Good leaf fans would be throwing waffles on the ice every possible second. Not just at home, but on the road. W have such a big fan base that we could do this. We should make the entire sport unplayable due to waffles. We should throw waffles at players on the street, at the acc at all times, at the leafs bus, and at the players families.

These are things that "good" fans would do.

Unfortunately, Toronto is full of terrible fans who blindly cheer and make excuses for he inexcusable.
So yes... The leafs DEFINITELY have te worst fans in the NHL.
Very extreme and humorous but I agree with what you are saying in a general sense.

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01-28-2013, 01:17 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
I've never been more Optimistic about this team. Lots to be happy about.

Unfortunately before we can make any significant gains some hard choices will need to be made. I don't understand why thats always perceived as 'Negative'.
Me too. For the first time in a while I feel the Leafs have the ability to get themselves on the right track.

It all started with firing the worst GM the team has ever seen (Burke).

Now we have Nonis who has admitted he is more patient and conservative. He's still got this utterly crap Burke team holding him down but what he can do is start parlaying some pieces into better ones.

Start by trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Liles, and Grabovski.

Leafs need a rebuild.

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01-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Me too. For the first time in a while I feel the Leafs have the ability to get themselves on the right track.

It all started with firing the worst GM the team has ever seen (Burke).

Now we have Nonis who has admitted he is more patient and conservative. He's still got this utterly crap Burke team holding him down but what he can do is start parlaying some pieces into better ones.

Start by trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Liles, and Grabovski.

Leafs need a rebuild.
Burke wasn't the greatest, that's for sure. However, JFJ was FAR worse. This doesn't even include the Ballard years (which I wasn't even alive for, I'll admit; but the stories certainly aren't pretty).

That being said, I'm kind of agreeing with you; perhaps a total blow out isn't the greatest idea, but this "core" we have at the moment really isn't that great.

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01-28-2013, 01:29 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Me too. For the first time in a while I feel the Leafs have the ability to get themselves on the right track.

It all started with firing the worst GM the team has ever seen (Burke).

Now we have Nonis who has admitted he is more patient and conservative. He's still got this utterly crap Burke team holding him down but what he can do is start parlaying some pieces into better ones.

Start by trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Liles, and Grabovski.

Leafs need a rebuild.
That sounds exactly like the type of thing a conservative GM does...

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01-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Flowzak View Post
Burke wasn't the greatest, that's for sure. However, JFJ was FAR worse. This doesn't even include the Ballard years (which I wasn't even alive for, I'll admit; but the stories certainly aren't pretty).

That being said, I'm kind of agreeing with you; perhaps a total blow out isn't the greatest idea, but this "core" we have at the moment really isn't that great.
Burke has the worst record. Now I understand he wasn't given a great amount to work with on the NHL roster...but JFJ had plenty of prospects in the system and had ALL of his first round picks going forward. Even if Burke had finished dead last but managed to get Tavares, Hall/Seguin, etc., I wouldn't crap on him. But it's because he simulataneously drove us further into the sewer and traded away half of his own firsts that pissed me the **** off.

Glad you agree. Time to blow this team up and build from the ashes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
That sounds exactly like the type of thing a conservative GM does...
A fiscally (cap) conservative GM would do that. No point in spending millions and millions on players that get us in last place. Trade them for future assets, draft well, then eventually use that capspace to fill in the blanks.

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01-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Burke has the worst record. Now I understand he wasn't given a great amount to work with on the NHL roster...but JFJ had plenty of prospects in the system and had ALL of his first round picks going forward. Even if Burke had finished dead last but managed to get Tavares, Hall/Seguin, etc., I wouldn't crap on him. But it's because he simulataneously drove us further into the sewer and traded away half of his own firsts that pissed me the **** off.

Glad you agree. Time to blow this team up and build from the ashes.



A fiscally (cap) conservative GM would do that. No point in spending millions and millions on players that get us in last place. Trade them for future assets, draft well, then eventually use that capspace to fill in the blanks.
Look at Nonis' track record, and see what is meant by "conservative". Ask Canucks fans why he earned that moniker. It wasn't because of his fiscal dealings....

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01-28-2013, 01:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
No, the alternative I suggest is to be negative when you should and be positive when you should.

Not "make the game unplayable". What exactly does that accomplish except to ensure that nobody wants to play for the Leafs? Making a bad situation worse?
Posting thoughts on how the team can be improved are not negative. I believe that we took a huge step forward with the firing of Burke. It will allow us to make a hockey decision on Kessel, Dion etc. No way would Burke ever consider these moves as he would have to admit he was wrong and that simply would not happen.

I like the way some of the players have responded to Carlyle and his systems.....others not so much.

One other thing.....I doubt the NHL players are coming on this board to help them to decide if they will sign here or not! They look at the on ice performance and the existing players and coaches and make their decisions. Currently we are not a desirable destination....that can change in a hurry....

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01-28-2013, 01:54 PM
  #139
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Sometimes I can't tell if Leaf fans have very short term memory or if the polar opposite view points I see after a win or a loss is just one half of the fan base becoming more vocal than the other.

Ex 1. Last year there was a lot of talk about Phil Kessel being a great goal scorer, people were predicting him 30 goals in this shortened season. Then 5 games into a shortened season without a goal and people (including the media) are chasing him out of town.

Ex 2. After Reimer's stint in the 2010-2011 season, people were praising him to be the next Potvin. After a less-than-stellar 2011-2012 season, people are calling him career AHLer/backup. Same with Scrivens (except in the AHL).

Basically, the fan base always has to have a player on which to put all the blame. I understand not being happy with mediocrity, but some of the things I hear are insane.. trade X player because he made a poor defensive play that led to a goal. Fire GM X because he wasn't able to sign this star UFA. We're a lottery team after a 2-3 start. Ban all business suits from the ACC because we aren't cheering hard enough.. it's just all rash and impatient comments.

I like what Dave Nonis has indicated he will do, so I will leave the team to him and not stress myself about something I have no control over.

PS. I might have been too young to remember properly, but I seem to recall people turning on Bryan McCabe ever since that one game against Buffalo when he knocked the puck into his own net in OT..

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01-28-2013, 01:57 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by 29Potvins View Post
PS. I might have been too young to remember properly, but I seem to recall people turning on Bryan McCabe ever since that one game against Buffalo when he knocked the puck into his own net in OT..
That was more or less the last nail to the coffin that made the (seemingly) vast majority of fans turn on him. The hate was building steadily through the whole Muskoka Five thing and his dropoff in numbers compared to pre lockout years.

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01-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
I've never been more Optimistic about this team. Lots to be happy about.

Unfortunately before we can make any significant gains some hard choices will need to be made. I don't understand why thats always perceived as 'Negative'.
I was referring to the original idea that we should be constantly booing and throwing waffles on the ice even when the current team wins because then we would be "good" fans.

What you said, I agree with. Although you may be more optimistic than I.

Hard choices definitely need to be made because even last year I thought the team was in a rut developmentally. I could be wrong, but we'll see.

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01-28-2013, 02:01 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Brymas McCaberle View Post
That was more or less the last nail to the coffin that made the (seemingly) vast majority of fans turn on him. The hate was building steadily through the whole Muskoka Five thing and his dropoff in numbers compared to pre lockout years.
OT, but I can't stop staring at your avatar lol.

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01-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Posting thoughts on how the team can be improved are not negative. I believe that we took a huge step forward with the firing of Burke. It will allow us to make a hockey decision on Kessel, Dion etc. No way would Burke ever consider these moves as he would have to admit he was wrong and that simply would not happen.

I like the way some of the players have responded to Carlyle and his systems.....others not so much.

One other thing.....I doubt the NHL players are coming on this board to help them to decide if they will sign here or not! They look at the on ice performance and the existing players and coaches and make their decisions. Currently we are not a desirable destination....that can change in a hurry....

Posting thoughts on how to improve the team is not negative, its good discussion.

The negativity I was referring to was the idea that we should be constantly crapping on the team because of all the years of failure.

It was suggested we throw waffles on the ice all the time and make the game "unplayable" and that this would truely voice our displeasure and make us "good" fans. I think that would only be counter productive and make sure nobody wants to play here.

Toronto would be a very desireable place to play if they were successful. Right now we've been down and out so long I can see where players would be hesitant.

Nonis is going to have to make some tough choices really soon I think.

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01-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Brymas McCaberle View Post
That was more or less the last nail to the coffin that made the (seemingly) vast majority of fans turn on him. The hate was building steadily through the whole Muskoka Five thing and his dropoff in numbers compared to pre lockout years.
He had his two best years in Toronto points-wise after the lockout and the "Muskoka Five thing" happened after the own goal.

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01-28-2013, 05:33 PM
  #145
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He had his two best years in Toronto points-wise after the lockout and the "Muskoka Five thing" happened after the own goal.
Shoot, you're right. Think I got the timelines mixed up. I thought the goal happened near the end of his final season as a Leaf (07-08), where he had some injuries and refused to waive his NMC. Seems like it actually happened much earlier that season.

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01-28-2013, 07:28 PM
  #146
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Toronto fans aren't bipolar at all

Let's all just calm down, it's only been 5 games







TRAADE KESSEL! Fire WIlson!

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01-28-2013, 07:38 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Toronto fans aren't bipolar at all

Let's all just calm down, it's only been 5 games







TRAADE KESSEL! Fire WIlson!
5 games = 10 games this season.........we don't have time to WAIT!!!!!!....

thing is we've done all get rid of this guy, that guy, the GM, the coach, the goalie etc etcetc......................there is nothing left to get rid of!!!!! We have no top end talent , average prospects and goalies that can't stop Beach Balls.

What do we do? ...................................NOTHING. Most of the time we jump the gun and make huge mistakes......let's just get some good picks and stock pile. We are far from being a good team.

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01-28-2013, 07:38 PM
  #148
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I don't get all of the pessimism. What exactly did people expect out of this season?

I thought most fans realized we would suck this year. Why all of the whining? Nonis and Carlyle are letting the kids play, I'm thankful that we got rid of Connolly and Lombadri so our prospects have a chance to get some real ice time. With youth comes mistakes, and there's going to be a lot of them. People just need to relax.

It all comes down to the fraction of the fanbase that just loves something to complain about.
I think most people who live on Planet Earth dont expect much from this team but there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning the leadership of this team or trading top players for good returns...I dont understand why discussing how this team can improve for the future is considered whining or complaining. The team is light years from a team like NYR or Chicago, LA, Boston, so obviously this group of players is not going to get it done are they?

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01-28-2013, 08:06 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Yes, leaf fans are 100% the worst fans in the NHL.

But for entirely different reasons than what the OP is suggesting.

The 'good' leaf fans are the ones that are critical of the pathetic organization. Not the ones blindly defending it.

The leafs are the richest team in the league with dramatic financial advantages over a substantial amount of the competition (even with the cap), yet still have the longest cup AND playoff drought.

If the leafs had 'good' fans, EVERY thread on this forum would be negative. EVERY fan should be utterly irate, posting entirely in all caps, wih bolded lettering.

Fans should be booing the team the very SECOND the team steps on the ice, till the very moment they leave. Even when we score... Even when we win a game (I know it's rare), we should boo.

Good leaf fans would be throwing waffles on the ice every possible second. Not just at home, but on the road. W have such a big fan base that we could do this. We should make the entire sport unplayable due to waffles. We should throw waffles at players on the street, at the acc at all times, at the leafs bus, and at the players families.

These are things that "good" fans would do.

Unfortunately, Toronto is full of terrible fans who blindly cheer and make excuses for he inexcusable.
So yes... The leafs DEFINITELY have te worst fans in the NHL.
although it comes off the wrong way, i agree with u

u think the Montreal fans and how much they love hockey would put up with what the Leafs have done that passed 10 years? i doubt it, only way for management to wake up is not having the place packed (which is happening) and/or jokes and it seems like bell and rogers have finally figured out how to make a team (with the bjs first) for the rebuild if this franchise.

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01-28-2013, 08:08 PM
  #150
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fans aren't as bad as the media, one loss and everyone reads cox's stupid articles..... Media knows how to get under peoples skin and i wish they didn't allow the media to talk to players as often, shatters more confidence than anything

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