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GAME #5 - Canucks 1, Sharks 4 - California Meltdown Edition

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:07 AM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Interesting idea.

Although I do like Kesler infront of the net for his Handeye/deflections.

He had a good shot but his ability to deflect pucks is what really made him very effective infront of the net, I don't think Kassian is as good at that quite yet.

I would go like this:

1st PP:

Sedin - Kesler - Sedin
Edler - Garrison

Still utilize Garrison's big shot.

2nd PP:

Booth - Schroeder - Kassian
Burrows/Raymond - Bieksa/Hamhuis/Ballard

I really like having Raymond on this line, I know it isn't ideal to put him on the point as he has no prior real history, but he has shown he has good offensive skills, if he gets and opportunity to shoot he has a pretty accurate shot.

Maybe we can put JS out for the draw, then after wards he slides back to the point (since he has experiance) then Raymond/Burrows go and play down low.
Actually Raymond has been used on the point before for a bit... don't remember much about how successful that was, however.

The reason why I want Kesler on the point instead of in front of the goalie is the punishment he takes. At the end of every year he ends up injured. Since the number of PP's goes down in the playoffs anyway, I'd much rather leave those duties to Kassian or someone like Burrows who is also good at tipping pucks, and let Kesler be healthy to be that dominant shutdown force against other No. 1 lines.

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01-28-2013, 02:07 AM
  #702
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Aaron Volpatti crunching Matt Irwin 27 Jan 2013


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01-28-2013, 02:08 AM
  #703
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Just finished watching the game on the PVR, and it's funny how results drive people's viewpoint of the game. I thought in the Ducks game that the Canucks were thoroughly outplayed and outchanced but had a PP that had some luck in how successful it was and a goalie that kept out a bunch of chances. Tonight, it was the opposite, where they pretty much sawed off their chances with a very good hockey team except that almost every quality chance they gave up ended up in the back of the net and they didn't get any puck luck (evidenced by the absurd number of posts they had).

I feel better about the team after this loss than I did after their last win.

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01-28-2013, 02:09 AM
  #704
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edit


Last edited by Ozone: 01-28-2013 at 02:14 AM.
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01-28-2013, 02:24 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Actually Raymond has been used on the point before for a bit... don't remember much about how successful that was, however.

The reason why I want Kesler on the point instead of in front of the goalie is the punishment he takes. At the end of every year he ends up injured. Since the number of PP's goes down in the playoffs anyway, I'd much rather leave those duties to Kassian or someone like Burrows who is also good at tipping pucks, and let Kesler be healthy to be that dominant shutdown force against other No. 1 lines.
Good point.

You have to counter balance that fear with the success he brings playing there. Maybe we could use him in both, sometimes infront, sometimes on the backend.

Although I disagree about the playoff comment, he scored a few big deflection goals, got the GTG against SJ and that OT winner against Nashville, wouldn't want to miss those opportunites to score those goals with someone less adept being there.

But then again he has a good one timer and wrister. Like I perhaps using him in stints in both places is a good idea.

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01-28-2013, 02:30 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Good point.

You have to counter balance that fear with the success he brings playing there. Maybe we could use him in both, sometimes infront, sometimes on the backend.

Although I disagree about the playoff comment, he scored a few big deflection goals, got the GTG against SJ and that OT winner against Nashville, wouldn't want to miss those opportunites to score those goals with someone less adept being there.

But then again he has a good one timer and wrister. Like I perhaps using him in stints in both places is a good idea.
Perhaps. If the team we're facing has a lot of big, punishing D-men then I'd move him to the point and free up that shot of his. If they don't have bruisers guarding the crease then I'd be okay with him being the net presence, though I still think Kassian or Burrows would be a decent option too and we don't lose a whole lot in that area, whereas we gain a lot by having a big RH shot back there.

Of course, that depends on if we adjust at all.

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01-28-2013, 02:39 AM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Just finished watching the game on the PVR, and it's funny how results drive people's viewpoint of the game. I thought in the Ducks game that the Canucks were thoroughly outplayed and outchanced but had a PP that had some luck in how successful it was and a goalie that kept out a bunch of chances. Tonight, it was the opposite, where they pretty much sawed off their chances with a very good hockey team except that almost every quality chance they gave up ended up in the back of the net and they didn't get any puck luck (evidenced by the absurd number of posts they had).

I feel better about the team after this loss than I did after their last win.
Pretty much.

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01-28-2013, 03:01 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Glad to see more and more people are starting to see this, as I have been banging this drum for quite sometime.

Couldn't agree more with your post, the "country club mentality" as you put it is something I have noticed too and is something I don't like.

As far as I'm concerned you hit the nail on the head with everything you put into this post.
That comes from GMMG if anyone.

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01-28-2013, 03:11 AM
  #709
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Anyone think our defence is still a bit on the weak and non intimidating side? Gillis can't possibly consider trading Bieksa without addressing the size and toughness issue on the back end. I'm not necessarily talking a bout one aspect like hitting or fighting, but rather just the ability to wear the other team down.

And regarding the coaching staff and GM, they are responsible for the personnel and playing time, therefore the fact that a marginal player like Ebbett is on the first unit PK falls on them.

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01-28-2013, 03:15 AM
  #710
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Felt like we were playing the Sharks from 08', they always seemed to have our number back then.

Also, Garrison really needs to hit the net, I swear near every shot is wide.

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01-28-2013, 03:58 AM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Just finished watching the game on the PVR, and it's funny how results drive people's viewpoint of the game. I thought in the Ducks game that the Canucks were thoroughly outplayed and outchanced but had a PP that had some luck in how successful it was and a goalie that kept out a bunch of chances. Tonight, it was the opposite, where they pretty much sawed off their chances with a very good hockey team except that almost every quality chance they gave up ended up in the back of the net and they didn't get any puck luck (evidenced by the absurd number of posts they had).

I feel better about the team after this loss than I did after their last win.


I expect the viewpoint to get worse if they lose to the Kings.


The ANA game didn't instill confidence, but conversion can really assuages a lot of fears. Got to take the good with the bad.


I hope they put in a strong effort against LA.


17K posts for Pitseleh too!

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01-28-2013, 04:09 AM
  #712
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Guys, this game didn't even really bother me.

... Maybe because I turned it off after the first 10 minutes...

But from watching some of the replay, it looks like we played pretty decently. Thing is, you win some you lose some. There's so much luck involved... and when a team's hot, like San Jose, everything goes right. We know what that's like, we've been on some of the longest winning streaks in the league, where it seems like we can't lose a game, and it's just about luck.

And then sometimes nothing goes right for you... and you hit 5+ posts.

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01-28-2013, 04:11 AM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
Canucks need a bigger 4th line.

I heard Evgeny Artyukhin is available.
Is this a joke? Because I love the guy, I've been secretly wanting him on the team for 2 years now. He might be the strongest player I've ever seen. But he can still skate really fast.

He went toe to toe with Chara




And he's a beast




Call up Mike Gillis, set up the arrangements.

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01-28-2013, 04:12 AM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Guys, this game didn't even really bother me.

... Maybe because I turned it off after the first 10 minutes...

But from watching some of the replay, it looks like we played pretty decently. Thing is, you win some you lose some. There's so much luck involved... and when a team's hot, like San Jose, everything goes right. We know what that's like, we've been on some of the longest winning streaks in the league, where it seems like we can't lose a game, and it's just about luck.

And then sometimes nothing goes right for you... and you hit 5+ posts.
I felt the same way. You hit that many posts and it's clear that this was just "one of those" games.

And Schroeder's going to pot his first sooner or later given how he's playing.

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01-28-2013, 04:20 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Zombotron View Post
I felt the same way. You hit that many posts and it's clear that this was just "one of those" games.

And Schroeder's going to pot his first sooner or later given how he's playing.
Yeah I'm definitely excited about Schreds. Not just his natural offensive skill. His defensive play is so reassuring - I don't have to convince myself that he's not a liability in his own end, like I might have with certain other small center.

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01-28-2013, 06:01 AM
  #716
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On the one timer topic, I am watching the highlights of all the games today, so many goals coming off one timers except for us but its been like this for a couple years now our D just looks scared to shoot the puck.

I did not even notice pavelski goal was a one timer.

And to me these are not amazing setups, joe thorton passed it from behind the net to pavelski who had his stick up waiting for the pass. Just a simple pass, and a player ready and wanting to shoot.

There is no reason our D can not do that on a henrik pass or any other simple pass, its mind boggling, when our D gets that kind of pass, its stop, look around for the pass, then decide to shoot. I have not seen garrison once with his stick up waiting for a one timer, and i have to think thats our coaching staff who instructs our d to a look for a pass first before deciding to shoot or for whatever reason the coaches have not wanting our D to shoot right away.

If you watch his highlight again, campbell for the most part does nothing special setting it up. There is no reason any of our players could not make that pass to him.


This is not the garrison were seeing, were seeing a garrisson afraid or hesitant to shoot for some reason in our system just like the rest of our D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93pCQugsc8


Last edited by Orca Smash: 01-28-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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01-28-2013, 06:09 AM
  #717
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Also I am unsure about the locker room situation, max lappierre rolled his eyes when a reporter cited av comment about max's penalty costing us the game, i have not really seen a player disgruntled with av in quite some time in front of the press. Max seemed to feel it was a bad call, and did not like av blaming him.

AV is probably right i did not remember the play, but still was strange to see max upset like that regarding the coaches comments.

Also seen this quote by boyle who team 1040 said is friends with roberto.

Ben Kuzma ‏@benkuzma
Dan Boyle on #Canucks crease conundrum: "I know Lou and I'm glad I don't have to be in the lockerroom and follow all that stuff."

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01-28-2013, 06:11 AM
  #718
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Frustrating game. Sharks steamrolled the Canucks at start and our top 4 defense made horrible giveaways that ended up in net or at least as grade A scoring chances. Canucks came back and played pretty well rest of the way but the PP was horrible and hitting 5 posts didn't help either.

- Hansen was our best forward. Skating miles, handled the puck well and generated scoring chances. Schroeder was probably the second best forward, definitely an NHL player at the moment. Plays well in his own zone aswell.

- Burrows has improved a little bit but still lots of work to do. Needs to work and skate harder. Higgins is in the same boat. Not contributing much.

- After a strong performance against Anaheim, I thought Raymond was a complete non factor. Didn't surprise me that much though, against bigger and stronger opponents and in tougher and more intense games Raymond usually disappears (see playoffs).

- Lapierre just horrible. Needs to be scratched. Not skating, not working, takes a terrible penalty on the top of that. I don't know if it's the injury or what but he needs to sit.

- Sedins not very good. Sharks are notoriously one of the worst PK teams in the league and in the past especially the Sedins have taken advantage of that but that was not the case here even with Clown doing his best to help them. ES and PP both just sad.

- Weise and Volpatti have been ok as fourth liners. I really like Volpatti's physical presence, he can skate pretty well and hit hard. Hasn't been a liability either. Weise needs to play more straight forward, the moment he has a chance to shoot he has to get the puck to the net and go for rebounds instead of trying to get a perfect shot off. It's not the Dutch league anymore, you don't have time or skill for that.

- Ballard and Tanev were really strong. Especially Tanev. Even with him being not the strongest guy out there he wins so many battles because he has such a smart and strong stick, just heads up play all the time. Canucks' best D this game. Best defense pairing at the moment but I wouldn't hesitate to break it up and move Tanev to top 4.

- First goal was a bad giveaway by Garrison and second goal was a horrible giveaway by Edler. Schneider was able to bail out Bieksa's and Hamhuis' early mistakes. I think it's time to switch pairings a bit. Switch Edler back to left side and move Tanev up to play with him.

- Schneider was good. Sharks had around 10 point blank chances to score (not counting goals) and the way they've been executing early this season, Schneider did a tremendous job to keep it close.

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01-28-2013, 06:13 AM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
On the one timer topic, I am watching the highlights of all the games today, so many goals coming off one timers except for us but its been like this for a couple years now.

I did not even notice pavelski goal was a one timer.

And to me these are not amazing setups, joe thorton passed it from behind the net to pavelski who had his stick up waiting for the pass. Just a simple pass, and a player ready and wanting to shoot.

There is no reason our D can not do that on a henrik pass or any other simple pass, its mind boggling, when our D gets that kind of pass, its stop, look around for the pass, then decide to shoot. I have not seen garrison once with his stick up waiting for a one timer, and i have to think thats our coaching staff who instructs our d to a look for a pass first before deciding to shoot or for whatever reason...

If you watch his highlight again, campbell for the most part does nothing special setting it up. There is no reason any of our players could not make that pass to him.


This is not the garrison were seeing, were seeing a garrisson afraid to shoot for some reason in our system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93pCQugsc8
a)we are only a handful of games into Garrison's tenure here in Vancouver. he's not going to have a full highlight real of uncorking one-timers for goals yet.

b)just count how many times Campbell is mentioned in those highlights. again and again and again, Campbell is either putting it perfectly on a tee for him, or moving himself to areas of the ice that open up space by drawing defenders and/or opening up passing seams to set up an against the grain one-timer for Garrison.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Campbell does some 'special' things offensively from the blueline.

I really don't think it's strictly a 'systematic issue' due to the coaches instructions. Sure, our PP setup is a bit different and we may emphasize puck movement a bit more than others...but it's not like it's something revolutionary and completely different from the norm that we're doing.

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01-28-2013, 06:21 AM
  #720
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a)we are only a handful of games into Garrison's tenure here in Vancouver. he's not going to have a full highlight real of uncorking one-timers for goals yet.

b)just count how many times Campbell is mentioned in those highlights. again and again and again, Campbell is either putting it perfectly on a tee for him, or moving himself to areas of the ice that open up space by drawing defenders and/or opening up passing seams to set up an against the grain one-timer for Garrison.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Campbell does some 'special' things offensively from the blueline.

I really don't think it's strictly a 'systematic issue' due to the coaches instructions. Sure, our PP setup is a bit different and we may emphasize puck movement a bit more than others...but it's not like it's something revolutionary and completely different from the norm that we're doing.
Campbell is a great player, but please tell me what amazing passes he makes that none of our players can, and they dont need to come from another d man. Look at how many of those passes also came from versteeg or another forward. Your looking at this from one perspective, we dont need just another erhoff, or campbell passing to him, we have other players like the sedins that can make those passes. Of course even edler could make those good passes as well. I just dont see it as an issue with him not being setup sufficiently.

Campbell is also mentioned alot on those highlights because thats who he was paired with on the PP, not because he made some special passes, zone entries, or drew other players in, in a way our players cannot or are incapable of compared to campbell. Alot of his shots set up on a tee were just simple passes by campbell or others, or pucks left for him by forwards like versteeg.

As other posters have pointed out henrik and daniel can draw other players in and are capable of making that great pass, and are some of the best in the game at drawing other players to them.

You are right its nothing different from the norm, thats what I am saying, our PP has not been good since late 2011, and garrisson we hoped was that big shot to give it a fresh start. And im still hopeful, your right it is early, he just seems so tentative to shoot suddenly like the rest of our D.

I was thinking about your idea for tanev and garrison and i am starting to think it really is something they should try.


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01-28-2013, 08:04 AM
  #721
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^ Watching that highlight vid again, I tend to agree. There isn't anything magical about Campbell's passing for the most part. BUT the D to D is a lot quicker than the movement you typically see from us. Even when Campbell drifts to the half wall and feeds it back to Garrison, it's a very quick movement. You'd think Henrik could easily replicate that, but his first thought tends to be to Daniel close to the net. Perhaps a mix of system and ability.

Also interesting that Cambell and Garrison are both lefties - yet there's no problem moving back and forth quickly, as there wasn't with Ehrhoff.

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01-28-2013, 08:46 AM
  #722
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Campbell is just really good at reading the play.

Guy knows where to be to draw defenders, knows when to shoot, when to skate and when to pass.

He's got an excellent feel for the game in the offensive zone, which is something he's better than Edler at.

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01-28-2013, 09:39 AM
  #723
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Just watching the game now. You dont get any cleaner posts than Hansens and Schroeders.

Hamhuis is a complete mess.

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01-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Just finished watching the game on the PVR, and it's funny how results drive people's viewpoint of the game. I thought in the Ducks game that the Canucks were thoroughly outplayed and outchanced but had a PP that had some luck in how successful it was and a goalie that kept out a bunch of chances. Tonight, it was the opposite, where they pretty much sawed off their chances with a very good hockey team except that almost every quality chance they gave up ended up in the back of the net and they didn't get any puck luck (evidenced by the absurd number of posts they had).

I feel better about the team after this loss than I did after their last win.
Considering they're without Kesler and Booth, I am inclined to agree (somewhat). However, the Canucks defensive zone play and penalty killing are so atrocious that I have a hard time not putting some of the blame on AV's typically lackluster pre-season, albeit a shortened one this year.

The PK forward pairings are questionable at best, and I've thought so since he started to run them out there. Why is Andrew Ebbett seeing significant PK time? Why has he had forward pairings without centers? Why wasn't Malhotra put back in the line-up for the ailing Lapierre?

I know it's fashionable to declare Malhotra "done", but he was better than people thought last year -- at least 4th line quality. He also had his best game against Calgary, going 9-1 in the f/o circle and looking like he's finding his legs. It's frustrating that AV watched that special teams win vs Anaheim and didn't see a utility for Malhotra against a team with a filthy PP to start the season. That's sports, I guess


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01-28-2013, 10:01 AM
  #725
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Frustrating game. Sharks steamrolled the Canucks at start and our top 4 defense made horrible giveaways that ended up in net or at least as grade A scoring chances. Canucks came back and played pretty well rest of the way but the PP was horrible and hitting 5 posts didn't help either.

- Hansen was our best forward. Skating miles, handled the puck well and generated scoring chances. Schroeder was probably the second best forward, definitely an NHL player at the moment. Plays well in his own zone aswell.

- Burrows has improved a little bit but still lots of work to do. Needs to work and skate harder. Higgins is in the same boat. Not contributing much.

- After a strong performance against Anaheim, I thought Raymond was a complete non factor. Didn't surprise me that much though, against bigger and stronger opponents and in tougher and more intense games Raymond usually disappears (see playoffs).

- Lapierre just horrible. Needs to be scratched. Not skating, not working, takes a terrible penalty on the top of that. I don't know if it's the injury or what but he needs to sit.

- Sedins not very good. Sharks are notoriously one of the worst PK teams in the league and in the past especially the Sedins have taken advantage of that but that was not the case here even with Clown doing his best to help them. ES and PP both just sad.

- Weise and Volpatti have been ok as fourth liners. I really like Volpatti's physical presence, he can skate pretty well and hit hard. Hasn't been a liability either. Weise needs to play more straight forward, the moment he has a chance to shoot he has to get the puck to the net and go for rebounds instead of trying to get a perfect shot off. It's not the Dutch league anymore, you don't have time or skill for that.

- Ballard and Tanev were really strong. Especially Tanev. Even with him being not the strongest guy out there he wins so many battles because he has such a smart and strong stick, just heads up play all the time. Canucks' best D this game. Best defense pairing at the moment but I wouldn't hesitate to break it up and move Tanev to top 4.

- First goal was a bad giveaway by Garrison and second goal was a horrible giveaway by Edler. Schneider was able to bail out Bieksa's and Hamhuis' early mistakes. I think it's time to switch pairings a bit. Switch Edler back to left side and move Tanev up to play with him.

- Schneider was good. Sharks had around 10 point blank chances to score (not counting goals) and the way they've been executing early this season, Schneider did a tremendous job to keep it close.
I pretty much agree with this, though overall I think you're hard on the bottom 2 lines -- they did more than the top line.
It still annoys me the way Ballard can get beaten to lose pucks behind his net ...he seems to shy away from the boards too much.
Tanev was prob the best D.
Garrison continuing not to impress me, for the pricetag. He's pretty meh right now, hopefully will improve.
I did agree w AV that the Lapierre penalty was the killer, pretty much handed the game back to the Sharks. The PP on which Marleau scored was sick ...like us vs Ducks. Canucks special teams sucked this game.
Bottom line, can't play a good team that is also hot with lukewarm Sedins and glaring defensive gaffes. Even then, they were pushing nicely and taking it to them until the lappy penalty.

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