HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Notices

League of Justice @ Cowardly Smurfs, 7PM EST

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 10:03 AM
  #401
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,186
vCash: 500
Since the 3rd line can't really function as a "checking" or energy line and since Westgarth is useless getting 3 min / game. Why not try and turn the 3rd line into a more offensive line with Bowman-Jussi-Boychuk and turn the 4th line into an energy line (Dwyer-Brent-LaRose). Even though it's a tiny line, I think Muller would be more comfortable giving that 4th line at least 10min-12 min / game.

Boom Boom Anton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:07 AM
  #402
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 31,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Since the 3rd line can't really function as a "checking" or energy line and since Westgarth is useless getting 3 min / game. Why not try and turn the 3rd line into a more offensive line with Bowman-Jussi-Boychuk and turn the 4th line into an energy line (Dwyer-Brent-LaRose). Even though it's a tiny line, I think Muller would be more comfortable giving that 4th line at least 10min-12 min / game.
That's just way too much common sense.

Playing Westgarth less than 3 minutes a game is a joke. Get the guy out of the lineup if he can't contribute more than that.

Westgarth: 4 GP, 11:46
Boychuk: 1 GP, 10:13

I mean, come on.


tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:10 AM
  #403
Joe McGrath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I just gave two instances of those players standing out. I understand there's the focus on the other guy on their line, because he's a new shiny toy, but it's not like he's creating those chances himself nor does it mean the rest of his line hasn't had their own chances.

Again, LaRose has been getting his own scoring chances and Jokinen's been playing the typical, silent playmaker he's been assigned to do. There's no finish on the line (as expected), but the chances are there. And like Boom Boom pointed out above, the finish isn't there for most of the forwards.

The biggest issue is the 4th line rather than the 3rd, IMO. Even in a shortened season, you can't run 3 lines an entire season, especially while putting the heavy focus on the top 6 as Muller has done.

I understand why he's done it, since our bottom 6 has been disappointing (to say the least), but if we're expecting the play from the team this early in the season is just rust, then when that rust shakes off, we need the players to still be...breathing...by the time the late season rolls around.
Isn't the 3rd line supposed to play against weaker competition? Then why are they constantly outplayed? Sure they have had a few scoring chances but they've also given up more than their fair share of scoring chances.

I don't really think saying that those two in particular have underperformed through 5 games is a stretch do you? I'm not saying they are terrible hockey players or that Dan Ellis should replace them, I'm saying that haven't played well.

Joe McGrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:20 AM
  #404
wallym
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 615
Does the team need another quasi-useful forward in the lineup? I mentioned this in a different thread, but I don't think there are enough minutes to go around as it is.

So a guy who serves a limited but specific purpose (fighter should the game get out of hand) that you don't really need to find icetime for might be a good thing.

wallym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:26 AM
  #405
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Isn't the 3rd line supposed to play against weaker competition? Then why are they constantly outplayed? Sure they have had a few scoring chances but they've also given up more than their fair share of scoring chances.

I don't really think saying that those two in particular have underperformed through 5 games is a stretch do you? I'm not saying they are terrible hockey players or that Dan Ellis should replace them, I'm saying that haven't played well.
They're getting outplayed because the "weaker competition" has always been a better 3rd line than ours. No one played well the first two games, Buffalo (IIRC) had their "D-bag" line as their 3rd (Ott, Kaleta, etc), and Boston's is self-explanatory.

I just don't think their play has warranted a discussion about how poor they've been playing. They haven't played well (in that they haven't scored), but like I said, my bigger issue is the use of the 4th line and their time spent on the ice (or lack thereof).

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:31 AM
  #406
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,724
vCash: 1832
I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.

DaveG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #407
wallym
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 615
The question is:

Does anyone have a problem with Eric and Jordan playing 21 to 22 minute a night?

If Jussi is going to get 15+, we're pretty much out of time.

Maybe when we are in busier stretches of the schedule, or the game is not close, switch out westgarth and get them a few extra shifts. But I can't see how not getting Anyone/Brent/Dwyer out at even strength more is an issue.

Unrelated, 29:13 for Joni is crazy. That's a lot of minutes.

wallym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 10:50 AM
  #408
Joe McGrath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
They're getting outplayed because the "weaker competition" has always been a better 3rd line than ours. No one played well the first two games, Buffalo (IIRC) had their "D-bag" line as their 3rd (Ott, Kaleta, etc), and Boston's is self-explanatory.

I just don't think their play has warranted a discussion about how poor they've been playing. They haven't played well (in that they haven't scored), but like I said, my bigger issue is the use of the 4th line and their time spent on the ice (or lack thereof).
But it deserves discussion that McBain is weak on his skates after every game he plays? We micro analyze every aspect of every game and it doesn't warrant a discussion that the third isn't living up to what Muller specifically said he wanted them to be. He thought that having guys who had played in top 6 roles playing on the third line would be an advantage and it hasn't been. That doesn't deserve discussion?

The usage of the 4th line is a whole other issue.

Joe McGrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 11:45 AM
  #409
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,521
vCash: 500
Well the positives are that our top two lines are doing what we hoped they would. That's a luxury we haven't had in a while, and it allows us time to complain about the third. The like lacks identity and purpose. Jussi's offense always struggled when he becomes the defensive minded center, he takes one for the team. He should credited for that over criticism. I think it's true that eventually we have to figure that line out, but it isn't the reason we lost.

Lets face it, a shortened season is not kind to us. Too many chemistry issues, we weren't good defensively and only added Corvo, and our goalie isn't where he should be yet. Not one guys fault or an easy fix. Our bottom three d have too much flux in it IMO, and we are short a defensive defenseman in the mold of Bryan Allen. I think we need that more than a more purposeful third line. Our top two score enough if they do like last night.

bleedgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 12:08 PM
  #410
AD Skinner
Registered User
 
AD Skinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 1,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.
I agree 100%. I've been banging this drum since before the season started; Jokinen is being completely wasted centering the third line. He's not big, he's not fast, and when playing with guys like Bowman and LaRose the best aspect of his game (his hands) gets wasted because he has no one to finish the opportunities he can create. Putting him at center also neutralizes his ability to get creative in the offensive zone as he is supposed to be the first forward back on D. If we were able to snag a legit 3rd line center whether it's Langkow, Arnott, Cullen, or whoever, I'd try something like this:

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Skinner-Staal-Jokinen
Bowman-Mystery Man-Dalpe
LaRose-Brent-Dwyer

AD Skinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 12:55 PM
  #411
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 31,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
The question is:

Does anyone have a problem with Eric and Jordan playing 21 to 22 minute a night?

If Jussi is going to get 15+, we're pretty much out of time.
We get about 7 minutes of PK per night. Let's say Jordan is out for about half of that, there's 3 minutes for him. Say Jussi and Brent split the other half, that's 2 minutes each.

We get close to 9 minutes of PP per night. Let's say Eric and Jordan are both out there for 2/3rds of that time, there's 6 minutes each. Jussi might play 3 minutes.

So Eric is at 6 minutes Jordan at 9, Jussi at 5 and Brent at 2, out of a total of about 16 minutes of special teams play.

Now let's say that the remaining even strength minutes (44) are broken down according to a 10:9:8:5 ratio, which is pretty ordinary across the board. That would leave us with about the following:

Jordan 21
Eric 20
Jussi 16
Brent 9

That template gives Eric and Jordan their ~21 minutes, Jussi his 15+, and still leaves time for 7 minutes of even-strength play from the fourth line. And I don't think I've made any wild reaches with that template.

This isn't a math issue, it's a conscious decision that Muller is making every night.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:37 PM
  #412
Oenatzu
Chad-in-the-Box
 
Oenatzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 973
vCash: 500
I guess it's too much to ask for this team to have one defenseman on the ice who can actually defend and start the play. When Boston forwards forechecked the only place our defensemen were able to get the puck was in front of our own net.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen so many two pad stacks in one game.

Oenatzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:50 PM
  #413
Finlandia WOAT
Do U Like Quebec?
 
Finlandia WOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: United States
Posts: 8,978
vCash: 500
I'll touch on this later, but the next 5 games are all very winnable.

2 against the Senators, 2 against the Flyers and a game against the Leafs.

The Leafs are a train wreck, and the Flyers roster suddenly looks devoid of talent (it looks like only Giroux and Briere, great as they are, are alone in the talent department), with defense that is old and immoble and Bryzgalov in net.

The Sens are good, but their team is built for speed and skill, like us. Combined with Ward (and Semin) usually having great games against the Sens, and 4-1 is very possible. I'm expecting at least 3-2.

Finlandia WOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #414
OntarioFisherman*
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 47
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oenatzu View Post
Also, I don't think I've ever seen so many two pad stacks in one game.


I haven't seen that many two pad stacks since I played NHL 95


OntarioFisherman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:40 PM
  #415
Cardiac_Canes
Registered User
 
Cardiac_Canes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Cardiac_Canes
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.
Its not official, but I don't think Moore will play this year. His wife recently lost her battle with cancer.

Cardiac_Canes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #416
Carolinas Identity
#freehope
 
Carolinas Identity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: United States
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 500
I know Arnott failed his physical, but did anyone hear why? If it's something minor that can be worked through he'd still be an upgrade imo.

Carolinas Identity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:05 PM
  #417
Metro Misfits
Misfits of the Metro
 
Metro Misfits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Isle of Misfit Toys
Country: Somalia
Posts: 7,255
vCash: 500
Trade a 2nd round pick for Cullen.

Trade for Despres from Pitt.

Something like:

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Jussi
Bowman / Cullen / LaRose
Dwyer / Brent / Dalpe
Westgarth

Pitkanen / Faulk
Despres / Gleason
Harrison / Mcbain
****ing Corvo

Metro Misfits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:22 PM
  #418
Identity404
Unknown Pleasures
 
Identity404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 500
I think Ward played too much NHL 13 during the lockout. Two pad stacks are money stoping breakaways in Be A Pro.

Identity404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:27 PM
  #419
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,724
vCash: 1832
Sadly there's no way we can roll a lineup like that while still acquiring Despres. The Pens aren't going to want a future piece along the lines of Murphy, they want something that can make them a better team NOW and going forward. And if it doesn't, it's gotta likely hurt the team acquiring from them more then it hurts them long term. Murphy only fills one of those two improvement aspects, going forward. Does nothing for them now, so they have no motivation to make that trade.

DaveG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:30 PM
  #420
Sasha Cares
28 mph!!!!!!!
 
Sasha Cares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Island of Misfit Toy
Posts: 9,474
vCash: 500
This team without Faulk is a disaster... getting out of our own zone each night is comical

Sasha Cares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:40 PM
  #421
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,186
vCash: 500
I want nothing to do with Cullen. And reading the Wild board, they all want to get rid of him, which tells me even more that I want nothing to do with Cullen.

Boom Boom Anton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:43 PM
  #422
Sasha Cares
28 mph!!!!!!!
 
Sasha Cares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Island of Misfit Toy
Posts: 9,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I want nothing to do with Cullen. And reading the Wild board, they all want to get rid of him, which tells me even more that I want nothing to do with Cullen.
which means the trade is a done deal

Sasha Cares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 04:43 PM
  #423
wallym
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,924
vCash: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
We get about 7 minutes of PK per night. Let's say Jordan is out for about half of that, there's 3 minutes for him. Say Jussi and Brent split the other half, that's 2 minutes each.

We get close to 9 minutes of PP per night. Let's say Eric and Jordan are both out there for 2/3rds of that time, there's 6 minutes each. Jussi might play 3 minutes.

So Eric is at 6 minutes Jordan at 9, Jussi at 5 and Brent at 2, out of a total of about 16 minutes of special teams play.

Now let's say that the remaining even strength minutes (44) are broken down according to a 10:9:8:5 ratio, which is pretty ordinary across the board. That would leave us with about the following:

Jordan 21
Eric 20
Jussi 16
Brent 9

That template gives Eric and Jordan their ~21 minutes, Jussi his 15+, and still leaves time for 7 minutes of even-strength play from the fourth line. And I don't think I've made any wild reaches with that template.

This isn't a math issue, it's a conscious decision that Muller is making every night.
Looking at the TOI stats, I think maybe we were just all off because we're judging 4th line TOI by Westgarth and not Brent? Brent's avg'ing about 7 minutes of even strength play a night. So they're just double shifting one of the wingers with the 4th line instead of playing Westgarth.

That seems reasonable?

wallym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 05:22 PM
  #424
TheBigKahuna
Registered User
 
TheBigKahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canes Country
Posts: 2,775
vCash: 500
Hasn't Brent had some penalty kill time?

TheBigKahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2013, 05:27 PM
  #425
impeach estaalo
RIPronrefo nevar4get
 
impeach estaalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,538
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
Hasn't Brent had some penalty kill time?
Yes, but he was mentioning even strength time only.

Brent: 6:43ES TOI/game
Westgarth: 2:56 ES TOI/game

impeach estaalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.