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Teemu Selanne's Legacy. Pre and Post 04 Lockout.

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01-28-2013, 02:26 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
OV and Malkin have accomplished more in their short careers than Teemu in his 20 years. If they all retired today I have no problem putting OV + Malkin ahead of Selanne.


Selanne had 1 more point than Ovechkin last year and Selanne is 42. If Ovechkin can play that well when he is 42, then we can talk.


Last edited by Inflict: 01-28-2013 at 02:30 AM. Reason: Edit: Was wrong on the playoff numbers. Removing them.
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01-28-2013, 02:27 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Implying that Ovie and Malkin had the same pool of talent to compete with as Teemu in the 90s for trophies. Yes...please. Let's get real.
OV and Malkin have at some point been ranked #1 in the game. Selanne was never considered to be the best player in the game. Even if you subtract Jagr, Mario, and Hasek from the equation, Teemu still doesn't get close to #1.

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01-28-2013, 02:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Someone isn't aware of "body of work" Selanne has a shot at 700 goals, when Ovechkin gets that close let's talk
90's talent >>>>> 2000's talent, let's be real here.
Dino Cicerelri has 608 career goals... Longevity is the only thing Selanne has on OV/Malkin.

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01-28-2013, 02:31 AM
  #29
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36 year old Selanne had more goals and points than 21 year old Ovechkin in 2006/2007 to bad Selanne didn't play in the east that year, so he could inflate his stats more, he was the only western conference player with over 40 goals. he had 48.

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01-28-2013, 02:33 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
OV and Malkin have at some point been ranked #1 in the game. Selanne was never considered to be the best player in the game. Even if you subtract Jagr, Mario, and Hasek from the equation, Teemu still doesn't get close to #1.
You really think Jagr and Mario were the only greats Teemu was competing with?

Mario
Gretzky
Messier
Forsberg
Bure
Fedorov
Hull
Jagr
Yzerman
Sakic
Kariya

Who did Ovie have to compete with again? Crosby and Malkin right? Give me a break.

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01-28-2013, 02:38 AM
  #31
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Inflated stats are Selennes 76 goal rookie season (84 games). 76 goals still only tied him with Mogilny (76 games).

Meanwhile OV won the Richard in 07/08 with 65 goals, next up was Kovalchuk with 52.

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01-28-2013, 02:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Dino Cicerelri has 608 career goals... Longevity is the only thing Selanne has on OV/Malkin.
13 PPG seasons, 6 40 goal seasons, doing this is mostly when goal scoring was harder to come by. Selanne didn't get to stat pad in the 80's, and never played on any teams with a high talent level til his mid 30's

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01-28-2013, 02:41 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
You really think Jagr and Mario were the only greats Teemu was competing with?

Mario
Gretzky
Messier
Forsberg
Bure
Fedorov
Hull
Jagr
Yzerman
Sakic
Kariya

Who did Ovie have to compete with again? Crosby and Malkin right? Give me a break.
You can't compare players across an era. Their is no telling how OV would have done in the 90's. The bolded players were already on the decline by the time Selanne was in his prime. Mario was hobbled with injuries for the last half of the decade.

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01-28-2013, 02:41 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Inflated stats are Selennes 76 goal rookie season (84 games). 76 goals still only tied him with Mogilny (76 games).

Meanwhile OV won the Richard in 07/08 with 65 goals, next up was Kovalchuk with 52.
Funny you mention inflated stats, when Ovechkin started his career after the lockout, not so dominant as goal scoring has come down eh? meanwhile Selanne's best season, was in the middle of clutch/grab NHL on the 98 ducks when Kariya missed most the season, that team was pure garbage, he had no talent around him and almost won MVP with 52 goals.

Ovechkin would not have been as good back then, as we can see now it's much harder for him to score goals when defenders are actually allowed to touch him

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01-28-2013, 02:42 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
13 PPG seasons, 6 40 goal seasons, doing this is mostly when goal scoring was harder to come by. Selanne didn't get to stat pad in the 80's, and never played on any teams with a high talent level til his mid 30's
I'm not denying that Teemu is an awesome player, i just have Malkin+ OV ahead of him career wise. Not to mention Federov and Forsberg.

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01-28-2013, 02:43 AM
  #36
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Obviously, Ovechkin could score 10 points this year and you still won't change your mind, what makes Fedorov the better player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Inflated stats are Selennes 76 goal rookie season (84 games). 76 goals still only tied him with Mogilny (76 games).

Meanwhile OV won the Richard in 07/08 with 65 goals, next up was Kovalchuk with 52.
First of all who is this Selenne you keep talking about? Second of all I was talking about your claim that Ovie was considered the best player in the world at one point with only two other players in the discussion, and you completely danced around the fact that Teemu had much better competition. But if Ovie retired today he will have retired scoring one less point than a 42 year old. Other than fan bias I don't see how you can put Ovie ahead of Teemu career wise right now.

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01-28-2013, 02:47 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Funny you mention inflated stats, when Ovechkin started his career after the lockout, not so dominant as goal scoring has come down eh? meanwhile Selanne's best season, was in the middle of clutch/grab NHL on the 98 ducks when Kariya missed most the season, that team was pure garbage, he had no talent around him and almost won MVP with 52 goals.

Ovechkin would not have been as good back then, as we can see now it's much harder for him to score goals when defenders are actually allowed to touch him
Can you predict the lottery also? I think OV would have had a hell of time feasting on the standup goalies back then.

98 was Selanne's best season no doubt, still wasn't good enough to get his team into the playoffs, which is why he didn't win MVP. OV in a very similar circumstance got the Caps into the playoffs in 2008.

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01-28-2013, 02:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Obviously, Ovechkin could score 10 points this year and you still won't change your mind, what makes Fedorov the better player?



First of all who is this Selenne you keep talking about? Second of all I was talking about your claim that Ovie was considered the best player in the world at one point with only two other players in the discussion, and you completely danced around the fact that Teemu had much better competition. But if Ovie retired today he will have retired scoring one less point than a 42 year old. Other than fan bias I don't see how you can put Ovie ahead of Teemu career wise right now.
Because I value a players peak far more than their longevity. OV peak> Selanne peak.

Lidstrom has more points than Bobby Orr, are you gonna tell me Lidstrom is the better player?

Their is a reason why Cam Neely and Pavel Bure are in the HHOF. Lidstrom has has more points than Bobby Orr, are you gonna tell me Lidstrom is the better player?

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01-28-2013, 02:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Can you predict the lottery also? I think OV would have had a hell of time feasting on the standup goalies back then.

98 was Selanne's best season no doubt, still wasn't good enough to get his team into the playoffs, which is why he didn't win MVP. OV in a very similar circumstance got the Caps into the playoffs in 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2...Anaheim_season

Look at that team man, Selanne tripled the 2nd leading goal scorers on the team. Prime Gretzky is not taking that team to the playoffs come on

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01-28-2013, 03:07 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
OV and Malkin have accomplished more in their short careers than Teemu in his 20 years. If they all retired today I have no problem putting OV + Malkin ahead of Selanne.

OV: 2xMVP, Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, 3x NHLPA MVP (three years in a row)
Malkin: MVP, 2x Art Ross, playoff MVP
Selenne: 2 or 3 goal scoring titles.

Teemu was/is an awesome player and a fan favorite but lets get real.
Teemu and Geno has that one and only trophy that matters, OV hasn't.

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Can't wait for the life/career document that is coming..
As long as it isn't done by any of the Finnish broadcasting companies, good lord.

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01-28-2013, 05:45 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2...Anaheim_season

Look at that team man, Selanne tripled the 2nd leading goal scorers on the team. Prime Gretzky is not taking that team to the playoffs come on
That team truly sucks

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01-28-2013, 07:05 AM
  #42
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As it stands, Teemu Selanne is a living legend and a lock for the HHOF the second he's eligible. His number will be retired by Anaheim, and in a not so distant future, there will be arguments for him being the greatest European player of all time.

Rewind eight years and 460 points, Selanne was a member of the Colorado Avalanche and coming off a season so disastrous, he considered retiring. He had 32 points in 72 games, a knee that he could barely skate on, and was 33 years old. In a stroke of luck, the lockout gave him the time he needed to properly rehab his knee and restablish himself as one of the best players in the NHL.

What would Selanne's legacy have been if he had retired after the 2003-04 season? He would likely be a HHOF player (with his 76 goal rookie season and two other 50 goal seasons), but he would have no Stanley Cup and playoff resume to speak of.
Would he be a first ballot HOF'er? Would Anaheim retire his number? Would he be in the discussion of greatest Euro player of all time?
Kurri, Jagr, Hašek, Lidstrom ???

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01-28-2013, 07:42 AM
  #43
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As long as it isn't done by any of the Finnish broadcasting companies, good lord.
So you mean that you wouldn't wanna see a black man playing Teemu in a document?

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01-28-2013, 07:48 AM
  #44
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So you mean that you wouldn't wanna see a black man playing Teemu in a document?
Not exactly what I was aiming at, but let's get that off the list too.

I was more leaning towards MTV3 and their horrible journalists.

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01-28-2013, 07:56 AM
  #45
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Not exactly what I was aiming at, but let's get that off the list too.

I was more leaning towards MTV3 and their horrible journalists.
Director is JP Siili (Ganes, Härmä etc.), if MTV3 or YLE has any involvement it will be small.

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01-28-2013, 08:19 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
OV and Malkin have accomplished more in their short careers than Teemu in his 20 years. If they all retired today I have no problem putting OV + Malkin ahead of Selanne.

OV: 2xMVP, Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, 3x NHLPA MVP (three years in a row)
Malkin: MVP, 2x Art Ross, playoff MVP
Selenne: 2 or 3 goal scoring titles.

Teemu was/is an awesome player and a fan favorite but lets get real.
Teemu won the first Rocket Richard in '99, and was tied for goals scored in '93 (76 goals) and '98 (52 goals). If he had retired in 03-04, he would have been 2nd in goal scoring, 4th in points total (ahead of players like Hull, Modano, Francis, Yzerman, Recchi, Forsberg etc). His PPG would have been 1.08 (8th). All this between the 92/93 - 03/04 season.

Have you taken a look at the players getting inducted lately? I think Selanne would have made the cut.

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01-28-2013, 08:31 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
OV and Malkin have accomplished more in their short careers than Teemu in his 20 years. If they all retired today I have no problem putting OV + Malkin ahead of Selanne.

OV: 2xMVP, Art Ross, 2x Rocket Richard, 3x NHLPA MVP (three years in a row)
Malkin: MVP, 2x Art Ross, playoff MVP
Selenne: 2 or 3 goal scoring titles.

Teemu was/is an awesome player and a fan favorite but lets get real.
This.

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01-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
13 PPG seasons, 6 40 goal seasons, doing this is mostly when goal scoring was harder to come by. Selanne didn't get to stat pad in the 80's, and never played on any teams with a high talent level til his mid 30's
What ? Kariya was an elite level talent.

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01-28-2013, 10:12 AM
  #49
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Ovi is finished, guy can't even hit an open net on a breakaway.

Should just hang up the skates.

Embarrassing himself out there.

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01-28-2013, 10:15 AM
  #50
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Well I guess this shouldn't be unexpected. Make a thread about selanne, turns into an ovechkin/malkin **** fest.

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