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Old
09-22-2003, 11:31 AM
  #1
kazo
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For the Scott bashers...

So I'm checking out the thread on the Wings/Rangers and I'm reading all this stuff about Scott the goon, shouldn't be in the league, disgrace, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm thinking it sounds like Scott really effed up, blew his cool, and was outta control.

So I go to the Wings board and guess what? not a word about anything Scott did. The only thing mentioned was about what Scott might have done to Fischer if Fischer had caught him after a Scott slash.

Granted, I didn't see the game but why such a difference in game summaries? Why the railing about a Ranger player and nothing from the Wings board about those nasty Rangers? Am I missing something here?

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09-22-2003, 11:47 AM
  #2
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Apparently he elbow smashed a Wings kid at the faceoff.

Then again, Messier did the same thign back in the day.

I honestly think we need him to be the 13th forward here. I don't see another option in the organization to go out and police for say 7 minutes a game.

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Old
09-22-2003, 11:55 AM
  #3
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Yeah, I saw your little thing over at the wings board about it.

Anyway, what Scott did was he took a stupid roughing and slashing call causing a 4 minute PP.Totally unnessacary plays.

Other than this he does NOTHING TO DISTINGUISH himself, until he throws a viscious elbow with under a minute left and almost beheads the kid right off the faceoff.It was similar to the play Oliwa made at the end of the infamous Columbus game last year and just as unnessacary.

Then he stays on and fights a nonfighter to end it like a total fool.

The guy is a liability and a loose cannon that this team has no need and/or time for.

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09-22-2003, 11:55 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reveille
Apparently he elbow smashed a Wings kid at the faceoff.

Then again, Messier did the same thign back in the day.

I honestly think we need him to be the 13th forward here. I don't see another option in the organization to go out and police for say 7 minutes a game.
I'm not necessarily saying Scott should have a place on the team. That's not the point. What bothers me sometimes is the mindset of some Ranger fans. It seems as though the gentlemanly approach is the preferred way to play the game.

Would what Scott did be even a blip on the radar screens of the vast majority of fans around the league? I think not.

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09-22-2003, 11:57 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
I'm not necessarily saying Scott should have a place on the team. That's not the point. What bothers me sometimes is the mindset of some Ranger fans. It seems as though the gentlemanly approach is the preferred way to play the game.

Would what Scott did be even a blip on the radar screens of the vast majority of fans around the league? I think not.
Hey, I love the rough stuff and have no problem with out guys dishing it rather then recieving it BUT this was some bush league nonsense that will only hurt us rather than accomplishing anythging positive for us.

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09-22-2003, 12:04 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
I'm not necessarily saying Scott should have a place on the team. That's not the point. What bothers me sometimes is the mindset of some Ranger fans. It seems as though the gentlemanly approach is the preferred way to play the game.

Would what Scott did be even a blip on the radar screens of the vast majority of fans around the league? I think not.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with Scott as far as I'm concerned. I'm just wondering why Detroit fans weren't up in arms. My guess is most fans around the league take most of that stuff in stride as part of the game. Sounds like a lot of overraction to me. But again, I didn't see the game.

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09-22-2003, 12:08 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by JR#9
Hey, I love the rough stuff and have no problem with out guys dishing it rather then recieving it BUT this was some bush league nonsense that will only hurt us rather than accomplishing anythging positive for us.
Exhibition games often go over the edge. It's to be expected to a certain extent when you have a lot of on the bubble players trying to impress whatever way they can.

I just don't see how it's that big a deal.

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09-22-2003, 12:10 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Hey, I love the rough stuff and have no problem with out guys dishing it rather then recieving it BUT this was some bush league nonsense that will only hurt us rather than accomplishing anythging positive for us.
Like I said in the previous thread: I've watched Scott over the years. He always starts out crazy as hell (he did it last year here also) trying to beat anything with legs and an opposing jersey color. He calms down though. In his stint a few years ago with the Rangers I was impressed with his willingness to mix it up with anyone who ****ed with our good guys.

I say give the kid a few minutes a game at the 13th forward position and see if he gains maturity and composure like he's done each year since.

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09-22-2003, 02:22 PM
  #9
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Scott took 3 stupid penalties in the game, cost them a goal and put them 2 down in the final minutes of the game. He did nothing in the game to impress and hurt the team, so why shouldn't he get slammed?

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Old
09-22-2003, 07:20 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
I'm just wondering why Detroit fans weren't up in arms. My guess is most fans around the league take most of that stuff in stride as part of the game. Sounds like a lot of overraction to me.
No, they don't usually take it in stride. The fact that his name is Kopecky had a lot to do with it. If that was Hudler or Zetterberg on the receiving end, it would have been a non-stop barrage from Wings fans. Wings fans still complain about the brawl and subsequent beatdowns from a Blues-Wings game around March. Like I said on the Wings board in response to you, it was similar to Matt Johnson on Beukeboom or Domi on Niedermayer. It was the kind of cheapshot that could give a guy serious concussion problems and ruin his career.

I honestly don't think that many Wings fans on HF even finished that game out. Basing the severity of a cheapshot on how a team's fans on HF react is a flawed formula to begin with. What if the cheapshot was taken against Carolina or Chicago? There's like 3 or 4 combined fans running around here for those two teams and the chances are slim that anybody would hear complaints about it because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
I just don't see how it's that big a deal.
Yeah, yeah, tell that to Kopecky who did nothing all game to deserve what he got. I've seen lesser cheapshots than that elbow ruin careers and that is what the big deal is. Not to mention when you're up two goals with 12 seconds, you don't usually have to sucker somebody to make yourself look good. It was a coward's play and very easily could have caused Kopecky some real problems (that's assuming it hasn't already).

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09-23-2003, 04:55 AM
  #11
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I know guys try to stand out in pre-season and the only way for a guy like Scott to make an impact is to start roughing it up, be it by a hard check or a fight but what he did was just unacceptable. How is taking stupid penalties (a major problem on this team) and committing gutless cheapshots at the end of games suppose to impress management?

I know that this guy has had nothing but good things said about him in the minors and he's not known for cheap shots and gooning it up but if he wants to stick in the NHL then he's gotta show management that image not the one shown in Minny.

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09-23-2003, 05:01 AM
  #12
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Not for nothing guys, but isn't this the EXACT way that Dantersson made himself visible last year? He got "famous" by throwing elbows at Lindros's head and that cought the Devils attention. I'm not saying what Scott did is right (I cannot judge what I did not see), however sometimes it takes a dirty play to catch the attention of the coaching staff.

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09-23-2003, 05:06 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Not for nothing guys, but isn't this the EXACT way that Dantersson made himself visible last year? He got "famous" by throwing elbows at Lindros's head and that cought the Devils attention. I'm not saying what Scott did is right (I cannot judge what I did not see), however sometimes it takes a dirty play to catch the attention of the coaching staff.
Headhunting with 12 seconds left in a preseason game is BS and I'm all for tough hockey but to me guys that do such things have no place in this game and a guy who does this on our team will have guys headhunting our Lindros' and Leetchie's.

And that's not to mention the totally unnessacary double minor he took in the second period.

For a team struggling with Discipline a guy who takes penalties like this ala Dale of 2 yrs agao we have no time or room for error in this season IMO.

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Old
09-23-2003, 05:41 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Not for nothing guys, but isn't this the EXACT way that Dantersson made himself visible last year? He got "famous" by throwing elbows at Lindros's head and that cought the Devils attention. I'm not saying what Scott did is right (I cannot judge what I did not see), however sometimes it takes a dirty play to catch the attention of the coaching staff.
True but are the Devils happy in the end with that wack job Danterwhatchamucallitson? Anyways, I think the guy made the team for throwing other teams off their games and drawing penalties through his fiestiness not his cheapshot plays. I hope the Rangers or any org. (and fans) would look down upon guys like that. I know he wants to make a splash in camp but do it the legal way....by sticking up for a teammate or nailing a guy through the boards with a legal hit.

BTW...like the way JR got in a dig at Dale in his post....I appreciated it!

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09-23-2003, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JCProdigy
True but are the Devils happy in the end with that wack job Danterwhatchamucallitson?
I believe he waas gone by December for being too much a liability.

The big problem is that we've already got an entire team with massive discipline problems and no ability to kill off penalties. 3 preseason games, 24 penalties, 7 PPG allowed. It's not a knock on Scott to say, we simply don't have room for a guy who can't pick his spots. "Sending messages" or "enforcing" really doesn't mean crap when the end result is a loss, which it usually is when the Rangers decide to goon it up.

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09-23-2003, 06:00 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by JCProdigy
BTW...like the way JR got in a dig at Dale in his post....I appreciated it!
Oh, I noticed it. JR cannot let too long go by w/o a Dale dig. I think it is his pride that keeps him from admiting the truth that I have been preaching to him.

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09-23-2003, 06:01 AM
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Exactly Melrose. No need for more guys on the team taking bad penalties when we can't kill the penalties taken as it is. I know that this seems to be an isolated incident with Scott though and he'll have enough time to redeem himself in the preseason.

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09-23-2003, 06:03 AM
  #18
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"F" Scott! ........Fitzgerald :p

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Old
09-23-2003, 06:05 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
"Sending messages" or "enforcing" really doesn't mean crap when the end result is a loss, which it usually is when the Rangers decide to goon it up.
This may be a off-topic, however, I feel that you ALWAYS have to stand up for your teamates. IF it results in a penalty, so be it. There have been entirely too many times that other teams have taken liberties with our better players. It finally subsided last year becuase the Rangers have finally shown that they are not going to let their "stars" be messed with. If the "message" that you are sending out is that you are not going to allow Lindros's head to be used like a bowling ball, then it is ok.
I know that this is not what Scott did, I am just commenting on the "sending messaged" or "enforcing" part. After all, how fun was it to watch TGO be run all over the ice w/ no retaliation whatsoever?

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09-23-2003, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
This may be a off-topic, however, I feel that you ALWAYS have to stand up for your teamates.
You've got know where to draw the line. If you're going to factor in 2 or 3 "message sending" penalties per game, then you just can't afford to take any others. No more retaliation. No more onstruction. No more lazy holding penalties in your own zone. Either Sather has to get the penalty kill fixed, or he has to start benching guys who put the team down a man for no reason. Only then will the team have a chance to win games AND stand up for their teammates.

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09-23-2003, 07:11 AM
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It is clear to me why this happened. Scott has a quite game, has no one to fight and is desperate to make the team, so what does he do, get some attention, cause a ruckuss. Now im not saying it was the right thing to do but surely people can see what the guy was trying to do.

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09-23-2003, 07:32 AM
  #22
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Can he fight? Or i should rephrase that can he beat the heavyweights of the league?

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09-23-2003, 07:41 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
No more onstruction. No more lazy holding penalties in your own zone. Either Sather has to get the penalty kill fixed, or he has to start benching guys who put the team down a man for no reason.
Agreed. I just don't think that standing up for your teamates is not "for no reason". That is a very good reason. But all the lazy obstruction/holding penalties have got to go.
On a side note, I found it king of funny that Sather chose to bench Murray for taking penalties, but didn't Messier take to lazy hooking penalties in the same period?

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09-23-2003, 07:51 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Agreed. I just don't think that standing up for your teamates is not "for no reason". That is a very good reason. But all the lazy obstruction/holding penalties have got to go.
On a side note, I found it king of funny that Sather chose to bench Murray for taking penalties, but didn't Messier take to lazy hooking penalties in the same period?
hmm whats wrong with benching a rookie who hasnt proved anything in this league and not benching a 6 time stanley cup champion. sending messier a message in preseason is pointless sending murray a message in preseason tells the kid to play smarter. you cant correct a mark messier he has seen it all. murray on the other hand is still learning and can learn from a benching

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09-23-2003, 07:58 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by jar jar links
hmm whats wrong with benching a rookie who hasnt proved anything in this league and not benching a 6 time stanley cup champion.
It's reinforces the double standard on this team that you will not be judge on your game play, you'll be judged on your former accomplishments. It's ok for Messier to take lazy hooking calls in his own zone? Is that what you're telling me?

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