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Old
09-23-2003, 08:01 AM
  #26
E-Train
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
hmm whats wrong with benching a rookie who hasnt proved anything in this league and not benching a 6 time stanley cup champion. sending messier a message in preseason is pointless sending murray a message in preseason tells the kid to play smarter. you cant correct a mark messier he has seen it all. murray on the other hand is still learning and can learn from a benching
It's an unacceptable double standard and a big part of the continuing failures every year for the Rangers.

Constant days off from practice, no punishment for bad penalties. Jurassic Mark is still holding the team hostage for '94

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09-23-2003, 08:01 AM
  #27
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Jar jar, do you just want to argue w/ me becuase you precieve that I wronged you somewhere?

You bench Messier becuase it shows that NO ONE is exempt from being penalized for being lazy. You punish Messier becuase as the "leader" of this team, he should be setting the example, not showing that your over-the-hill center has a different set of rules than everyone else. You punish Messier because ALL should be penalized for lazy penalties. Those lazy penalties were one of the many reasons for our demise last year.

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09-23-2003, 08:02 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
It's reinforces the double standard on this team that you will not be judge on your game play, you'll be judged on your former accomplishments. It's ok for Messier to take lazy hooking calls in his own zone? Is that what you're telling me?
oh please not in preseason game. you and i both dont know whats goes on behind the benchl. its possible murray was told to keep himself in check and didnt. not to mention very few of us saw this game in person or heard it on the radio (damn you wcco) there is a double standard on this team but name any other team in any sport were rookies are treated the same as veterans?

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09-23-2003, 08:04 AM
  #29
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Messier takes more lazy penalties than most but there is no way Slats will make an example of him.

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09-23-2003, 08:05 AM
  #30
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listen to clarify my point. you bench a rookie because he messes up and does something wrong you bench a veteran to embarass him. it would be more pointless to bench messier in a 9-1 meaningless preseason game with no tv coverage limitied radio coverage and not one local writer at the game. what message would messier get? Benching messier againts the devils in january in a big game now thats a message

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09-23-2003, 08:11 AM
  #31
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"its possible murray was told to keep himself in check and didnt"

So Murray should play in preseason the correct way and avoid lazy penalties, but Messier shouldn't? Great teams practice great. Preseason is one big practice session. Messier should not be held to a different standard.

"Messier takes more lazy penalties than most but there is no way Slats will make an example of him."

And thus one of the biggest reasons the Rangers are the biggest joke in the league. To only hold rookies accountable for their actions is counter-productive. Know why Roenick or Prims or any other Flyer would not take 2 lazy penaties on one period? 'Cause Hitch would staple their rear ends to the bench.

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09-23-2003, 08:16 AM
  #32
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I didn't say I agreed with it, I don't. But it's just simple fact. As long as Mess is on this team, Mess will do what he wants, when he wants.

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09-23-2003, 08:26 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
"its possible murray was told to keep himself in check and didnt"

So Murray should play in preseason the correct way and avoid lazy penalties, but Messier shouldn't? Great teams practice great. Preseason is one big practice session. Messier should not be held to a different standard.

"Messier takes more lazy penalties than most but there is no way Slats will make an example of him."

And thus one of the biggest reasons the Rangers are the biggest joke in the league. To only hold rookies accountable for their actions is counter-productive. Know why Roenick or Prims or any other Flyer would not take 2 lazy penaties on one period? 'Cause Hitch would staple their rear ends to the bench.
it looks like you know so much about the game so i assume you must have seen it. far be it from you to post about messier being benched from a game you didnt even see. its pointless to bench messier in a blow out preseason game that nobody can see he wouldnt learn from it. its not pointless to bench murray because you could learn from it. not to mention how do you know messiers penalty was lazy and murrays wasnt?

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09-23-2003, 08:36 AM
  #34
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"its pointless to bench messier in a blow out preseason game that nobody can see he wouldnt learn from it. its not pointless to bench murray because you could learn from it. not to mention how do you know messiers penalty was lazy and murrays wasnt?"

First of all, where did anyone say that one took a lazy penalty while the other one did not?
Second, you do not bench players for the benefit of the fans. A benching is not determined by the amount of fans who are watching the game. Messier should be held to the same standard that anyone else is. A hooking penalty is a lazy play. It means that you did not play your man properly and got caught. All players have got to be held to the same level of ACCOUNTABILITY. Allowing Messier to get away with anything simply becuase he's Messier sends out an ill message to the rest of the team. Why should they try hard when Messier can do what he wants and not be held accountable?

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09-23-2003, 08:44 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by True Blue
"its pointless to bench messier in a blow out preseason game that nobody can see he wouldnt learn from it. its not pointless to bench murray because you could learn from it. not to mention how do you know messiers penalty was lazy and murrays wasnt?"

First of all, where did anyone say that one took a lazy penalty while the other one did not?
Second, you do not bench players for the benefit of the fans. A benching is not determined by the amount of fans who are watching the game. Messier should be held to the same standard that anyone else is. A hooking penalty is a lazy play. It means that you did not play your man properly and got caught. All players have got to be held to the same level of ACCOUNTABILITY. Allowing Messier to get away with anything simply becuase he's Messier sends out an ill message to the rest of the team. Why should they try hard when Messier can do what he wants and not be held accountable?
has mark messier earned any leeway in his 24 years of playing hockey? ive seen hooking penalites that save goals from being scored. not to mention what if it was a bad call? do you know if it was? you must? garth murray has not earned a jock in this league!!!

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09-23-2003, 09:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
has mark messier earned any leeway in his 24 years of playing hockey? ive seen hooking penalites that save goals from being scored. not to mention what if it was a bad call? do you know if it was? you must? garth murray has not earned a jock in this league!!!

The "jock" Messier earned should have been permenantly hung up in 2000. Instead we have to be subjected to Jurassic Mark doing whatever he wants for now the 4th consecutive season.

The Rangers are and will continue to be a laughing stock when the only players held accountable are ones Jackass can send to Hartford without clearing waivers

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09-23-2003, 09:41 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by E-Train
The Rangers are and will continue to be a laughing stock when the only players held accountable are ones Jackass can send to Hartford without clearing waivers
Couldn't have said it better myself!

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Old
09-23-2003, 10:11 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Train
The "jock" Messier earned should have been permenantly hung up in 2000. Instead we have to be subjected to Jurassic Mark doing whatever he wants for now the 4th consecutive season.

The Rangers are and will continue to be a laughing stock when the only players held accountable are ones Jackass can send to Hartford without clearing waivers
your missing the point. nobody knows if messiers penalty was a "Bad penalty" or a bad call? nobody knows if murrays penalty was a bad penalty or a bad call? the fact is messier could be the best 4th line center in the league. it makes no sense to bash him if you dont know the facts.

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09-23-2003, 10:17 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Likewise.

"your missing the point. nobody knows if messiers penalty was a "Bad penalty" or a bad call? nobody knows if murrays penalty was a bad penalty or a bad call? the fact is messier could be the best 4th line center in the league. it makes no sense to bash him if you dont know the facts"

Based upon Messier's play over the past 4 years, I would make an educated guess that the play was the result of laziness. And also over the past 4 years whatever leeway Mess may have earned over his first 20 years in the league has long evaporated.

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09-23-2003, 10:18 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
"its possible murray was told to keep himself in check and didnt"

So Murray should play in preseason the correct way and avoid lazy penalties, but Messier shouldn't? Great teams practice great. Preseason is one big practice session. Messier should not be held to a different standard.

"Messier takes more lazy penalties than most but there is no way Slats will make an example of him."

And thus one of the biggest reasons the Rangers are the biggest joke in the league. To only hold rookies accountable for their actions is counter-productive. Know why Roenick or Prims or any other Flyer would not take 2 lazy penaties on one period? 'Cause Hitch would staple their rear ends to the bench.
The veterans are the ones who are supposed to set the example, not the rookies. I mean, that's pretty basic stuff in team sports. How can you expect veterans to play one way and rookies another in terms of effort? That's unacceptable but, unfortunately, it's the Ranger way. And it is also a big reason why they see such a difference in how teams go about their business once they leave NY.

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Old
09-23-2003, 10:22 AM
  #41
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its a preseason game. hang on i missed it when murray got inducted into the hall of fame. and true blue im so happy you can be so sure murray got benched. send the link to it. are you assuming he did. maybe he looked terrible the whole game? do you know?

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09-23-2003, 10:25 AM
  #42
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Slats was quoted in the paper as saying he 'Sat him down for a few shifts after he took a penalty'. The Post I think... not sure.

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09-23-2003, 10:29 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Based upon Messier's play over the past 4 years, I would make an educated guess that the play was the result of laziness.
And it probably looked a lot like this......


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Old
09-23-2003, 10:30 AM
  #44
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where is the link? i checked the post and didnt see anything? murray has looked awful this preseason. AWFUL he doesnt deserve ice time with the big club right now. i dont think mark messier worries about preseason games. it was a 9-1 game. i hardly think he was the worst guy out there. it makes no sense to hold messier responsible for a penalty. true blue NEVER SAW THE WILD GAME! WHAT IF IT WAS A HORRIBLE CALL???

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09-23-2003, 10:43 AM
  #45
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Whether it was the laziest penalty in the world or not the standards are not the same and the rangers creating an ever depressing attitude for any prospect they have.

History proves most of the beliefs on the rangers true, NO OTHER team in the league does things the way this team does. NONE.

If the rangers were the rule rather than the exception i'd be more inclined to believe that they were doing things the right way. But the rangers have gone nowhere in 6 years and it's not hard to see why.

Messier has earned respect for his team as a whole but that doest excuse sloppy play and lazy penalties which he HAS committed in excess the past several seasons.

Babe Ruth was the greatest ballplayer of his day, but when the thrill is gone, it's gone.

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09-23-2003, 10:45 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
where is the link? i checked the post and didnt see anything? murray has looked awful this preseason. AWFUL he doesnt deserve ice time with the big club right now. i dont think mark messier worries about preseason games. it was a 9-1 game. i hardly think he was the worst guy out there. it makes no sense to hold messier responsible for a penalty. true blue NEVER SAW THE WILD GAME! WHAT IF IT WAS A HORRIBLE CALL???
Since we all know that you didn't see the game either, it's not the smartest strategy to argue that True Blue is wrong in his assessment of Messier's penalties, then turn around and argue that Murray deserved to be benched because he took a bad penalty. No one knows if ANY of the penalties were "good" ones or not. And FYI, Sather's comments on Murray's benching are in the Star-Ledger. Or did you think that True Blue was making those comments up just because you didn't find them in the first paper you looked?

Teams need to be on the same page, rules are meant for everyone. Hockey, more than any other sport, requires everyone to be on the same page for there to be success. And the fact that the Rangers have lacked any sort of success in the last 6 years only proves how true it is. Until that lesson is re-learned by EVERYONE in this organization, the losing will continue.

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Old
09-23-2003, 11:00 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Since we all know that you didn't see the game either, it's not the smartest strategy to argue that True Blue is wrong in his assessment of Messier's penalties, then turn around and argue that Murray deserved to be benched because he took a bad penalty. No one knows if ANY of the penalties were "good" ones or not. And FYI, Sather's comments on Murray's benching are in the Star-Ledger. Or did you think that True Blue was making those comments up just because you didn't find them in the first paper you looked?

Teams need to be on the same page, rules are meant for everyone. Hockey, more than any other sport, requires everyone to be on the same page for there to be success. And the fact that the Rangers have lacked any sort of success in the last 6 years only proves how true it is. Until that lesson is re-learned by EVERYONE in this organization, the losing will continue.
relax somebody said they were in the post. i didnt see the game but neither did true blue. messier didnt get benched is the question and the answer is simple. so simple that even you brooklyn can understand it. its a preseason game!! the third game the TEAM has played in three days, they lost 9-1 maybe they were playing out the string. murray is NOT and ill repeat it for you brooklyn NOT ready to play at the nhl level. Messier has not been the problem the past 4 years. the use of messier has been. he hasnt been our worst player. its wrong to bash him or sather after a preseason game. the results dont count.

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09-23-2003, 11:00 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
where is the link? i checked the post and didnt see anything? murray has looked awful this preseason. AWFUL he doesnt deserve ice time with the big club right now. i dont think mark messier worries about preseason games. it was a 9-1 game. i hardly think he was the worst guy out there. it makes no sense to hold messier responsible for a penalty. true blue NEVER SAW THE WILD GAME! WHAT IF IT WAS A HORRIBLE CALL???
You don't think Mark Messier worries about preseason games? I'm sure he doesn't just like a lot of his teammates. Does that also mean they don't worry much about practice. It's not a stretch then to take that country club attitude into the regular season.

Gee, maybe that's why we're at six years and counting.

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Old
09-23-2003, 11:07 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Edge
Whether it was the laziest penalty in the world or not the standards are not the same and the rangers creating an ever depressing attitude for any prospect they have.

History proves most of the beliefs on the rangers true, NO OTHER team in the league does things the way this team does. NONE.

If the rangers were the rule rather than the exception i'd be more inclined to believe that they were doing things the right way. But the rangers have gone nowhere in 6 years and it's not hard to see why.

Messier has earned respect for his team as a whole but that doest excuse sloppy play and lazy penalties which he HAS committed in excess the past several seasons.

Babe Ruth was the greatest ballplayer of his day, but when the thrill is gone, it's gone.
Edge, I'm sure that you too have heard comments from hockey people over the past few years that the New York Rangers are not, shall we say, always required to give 100% effort.

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Old
09-23-2003, 11:12 AM
  #50
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The Rangers are a joke and the only people who don't get the joke are the rangers themselves.


ONLY this team, the things they do are unreal. It's like a comedy because it's like the intentionally do them, but how can anyone possibly be that out of touch with reality.

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