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Phil Kessel to WEST CONF (top prospect/young player + 1st 2013)

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:13 AM
  #26
Vankiller Whale
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Gaunce + 1st + something else?

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:14 AM
  #27
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gaunce + 1st + something else?
... Lack?

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:19 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
A lot of people have been arguing for a while that the Leafs should trade Kessel and that it would likely be the best way to build the team. For the majority of people arguing this, it has absolutely nothing to do with this season.

Just using large brush strokes to pretend that anybody who suggests trading Kessel is a bipolar fan making knee-jerk reactions is ridiculous.
Actually, for the most part, Leafs fans have been bipolar about Kessel and it is a knee-jerk reaction.

After Kulemin's 30 goal season, Kessel was rated our 2nd best forward and many people wanted him traded. After Kessel's ppg season everybody thought he was a top 5 winger and untouchable. Now after a few games (where he's actually looked very good offensively and better defensively, he's been improving every year) everybody wants him traded because his stat-line is sub-par.

Leaf fans are definitely bi-polar although it is hard having your team be basement dwellers for years...

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:29 AM
  #29
uncleben85
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Originally Posted by NoahH57 View Post
Not sure if both sides would do this, but Tarasenko + 1st for Kessel could be interesting
As a Leafs fan who does not want to trade Kessel (I think its a dumb and fickle thing to do just bc of his stat-line), I would strongly consider this.

Phil is an amazing goal scorer, and while Tarasenko might not ever match that, the 1st pushes it over for me.
however, the 1st is the same reason why St. Louis would probably not do this

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01-28-2013, 11:30 AM
  #30
416Leafer
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Originally Posted by TMLKesselftw View Post
Actually, for the most part, Leafs fans have been bipolar about Kessel and it is a knee-jerk reaction.
I think there are definitely a small minority of fans whose opinions sway fairly easily from one side to the other.

But for the most part, I think people who have wanted to trade Kessel, have wanted to do so for a while. People who think he's a dynamite winger / franchise player, have also thought so for a while.

They just tend to be quieter/louder than eachother depending on how the team / Kessel is doing. A fan who thinks it's in the best interests of the team going forward to trade Kessel isn't going to make a thread after he's gone and put up ~10 points in 5 games or something like that. That doesn't mean their opinion is different, they just don't want to create a thread and get raked over the coals for it.

I don't know the members of HFBoards as well as I do on the other forum I'm on, just because HFBoards is far far too big. But how I described it above is how it seems to go on the other forum. And then outsiders call Leaf fans bipolar, but if you actually follow what specific people are saying, the majority of them have consistently been for building around Kessel or for trading him, but not switching between the ideas.

The fanbase is definitely split, if that's what people mean by bipolar nation. But I don't think that many specific people are.

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01-28-2013, 11:32 AM
  #31
uncleben85
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Wilson + Budish + 1st + conditional pick (depending on team performance)
for
Kessel + Bozak
That's a bad trade for the Leafs

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01-28-2013, 11:35 AM
  #32
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Kessel would have to bring back a C prospect.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:39 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I really can't see a 7th overall last year (Dumba) and a 1st in one of the deepest drafts in years for Kessel. In theory, that's as much as Burke paid to get him in the first place, no? Sounds like an attempt to recoup much of what the value of the 1st round picks Burke gave turned out to be.
I do agree that just from my perspective there is a big difference in PK's value when he's 4 years from UFA eligibility compared to one.

The requested value (Top Prospect/1st) does seem to be very close to the value that Kessel traded for when you consider that the expectation was that the Leafs picks would be between 10-16th overall in the draft (right on the borderline of making/missing the P/O's).

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01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #34
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
... Lack?
That makes a lot of sense. I think I would do that.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:40 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by uncleben85 View Post
That's a bad trade for the Leafs
If the conditional pick gets us another 1st.

It seems like a decent return.

Budish seems like another Biggs/Broll. You can never have too many of them.

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01-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Snipers aren't as important as centres. Who were the elite snipers on LA and Boston when they won the Cup? All teams that win the Cup have good centres, but not all have elite snipers.
It is interesting to think back over teams whose best players are wingers very rarely win the Stanley Cup. NJ w/ Kovy & Parise last year as a good example. CAL with Iginla going back a ways is another.

I can't really think of a team whose best player was a winger won a Cup. Help anyone?

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01-28-2013, 11:47 AM
  #37
Phion Keneuf
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Only on hfboards is Kessel available for scraps

Non playoff 1st
Top prospect
Young roster player

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01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #38
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just trade Kessel for Perry and get it over with

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
  #39
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
It is interesting to think back over teams whose best players are wingers very rarely win the Stanley Cup. NJ w/ Kovy & Parise last year as a good example. CAL with Iginla going back a ways is another.

I can't really think of a team whose best player was a winger won a Cup. Help anyone?
Look at Conn Smyth results as a good indication. Last winger to win it was 1995 (Claude Lemieux), and prior to that 1982 (Mike Bossy). It's been won 11 times by a Centre in that same span (since 1982), which considering the fact that there are twice as many wingers as centres, should be a good indication of which position is more important. (as a comparison, 11 goalies have won it in that span, and 5 D).

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01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Only on hfboards is Kessel available for scraps

Non playoff 1st
Top prospect
Young roster player
I think the challenge you're going to have with that is a "non-playoff" first usually belongs to a rebuilding team. Kessel is a UFA in 1.5 years. There's too much risk of Kessel trying to play the UFA market for a rebuilding team to trade their first and a top prospect.

For instance, from Calgary's perspective I'd offer up Baertschi (I know this will be an unpopular decision), a first, and Brodie. The value is there, as Kessel is proven. The fact he is proven adds a lot of value to him that stretches well beyond what any prospect can offer. He has four 30+ goal seasons in a row.

The problem is with the potentialy UFA status, it's too risky. As a team that is potentially rebuilding next year, it makes more sense to wait until free agency and bid on him, potentially getting him for nothing and retaining your future assets. The combination of uncertainty with my own team and uncertainty with Kessel makes me pull any "fair value" offer from the table.

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01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
  #41
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People are crazy to consider that Tarasenko can be acquired for Kessel.

The good fits for Kessel in the western conference are Colorado and Nashville

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01-28-2013, 11:59 AM
  #42
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Kessel + Gunnarsson for Couturier + Simmonds + 1st.

Phaneuf for O'Rielly. (Rielly to O'Rielly back to Rielly to O'Rielly for the O'Goal!)

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:59 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gaunce + 1st + something else?
Gaunce is no better than Ty Biggs.

From Vancouver?

You don't have anything we'd want.

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01-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #44
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Does it really need to be Western Conference.

Leafs get griffin Reinhardt and isles 1st

Islanders get kessel

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01-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #45
blankall
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That makes a lot of sense. I think I would do that.
Of course you would. A late first, Lack, and Gaunce for Kessel is a ******. Gaunce hasn't taken a step forward in his game this year, and Lack looks awful.

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01-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #46
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If Nonis was going to trade away established players for prospects and assets, Lupul would not have been signed to a five year extention.

As for what value PK holds, it depends on the fit. Is there a team out there in need of a one dimensional sniper that will likely demand $7 million + as a UFA? Nashville was previously interested.

I place value on a player's all around game and not just scoring stats. I've never been a big PK fan, but he would be a great complimentary player on a squad with solid centers, where PK could focus on just being a scorer and have responsible line mates make up for his lack of a two way game.

Tarasenko and a 1st is too high. VT had a very high end two way game in the KHL before coming over. Hitchcock can put loads of trust into him already. His offense may never be as high as PK's best, but he is going to be a very effective all around player.

You won't get back what you gave up to get PK. Wilson, Blum and a first from Nashville would be a realistic return.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #47
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From Nashville: Colin Wilson, Austin Watson, 1st round pick
From Colorado: Ryan O'Reilly, Michael Sgarbossa, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick

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01-28-2013, 12:05 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Only on hfboards is Kessel available for scraps

Non playoff 1st
Top prospect
Young roster player
In this type of thread - those are the most common type of offers you would get. IMO- there is a big difference between getting 4 years of Kessel (which is what TOR traded for), and 1.3 years of Kessel before he becomes a UFA.

I really like Blankall's response though in post #41. If TOR is worried about Kessel not resigning, what sort of confidence would a team have that just traded for him making that happen?

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01-28-2013, 12:09 PM
  #49
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not that i know anything, but i could see a potential deal to go with Nashville. Colin Wilson is something i would look for back plus other pieces.

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Old
01-28-2013, 12:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
I know David Poile was pretty bitter after Boston agreed to terms and then yanked it off the table when Toronto stepped in with a second 1st.

Does Craig Smith, Jon Blum, and a 1st interest you?
How bout C. Wilson, R. Ellis, and a 1st.

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