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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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02-13-2013, 02:06 PM
  #226
Ulf Hullberg
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
Except the thing you are leaving out is the reason Hainsey is playing so much is because our young defencemen aren't ready to play more minutes.
I left that out because it doesn't change anything I said about Hainsey's current or potential "market" value.

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02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #227
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yah whats going on there? With all that yougn talent you'd think they'd be getting alittle farther ahead, especially after that playoff birth the other year.
It's a long story. I'm a very loyal fan and bad times usually don't drive me away from my team. (I've never got sick of a team before.) So, it's not because of the lack of success. The franchise isn't respecting the players and gives a **** when it comes to their fans. This has going on for a few years now. I still love the team but I don't think I can support the behaviour of the front office anymore. I don't think things will change in the next couple of years, so here I am. I love hockey and need another team to cheer on. Maybe it'll only be for a few years, maybe I'll become a true Jets fan. I don't know.

Edit: To answer the question: Avs' coach is reeeeaaaaally bad

2nd edit: I realized I simply can't give up on my team. Jets will be my girlfriend team, though.


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02-13-2013, 02:58 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
I left that out because it doesn't change anything I said about Hainsey's current or potential "market" value.
You also left out the fact that Byfuglien doesn't have any mysterious knee issues. He hurt his knee last year, and was out this year with a verified GROIN injury.

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02-13-2013, 03:01 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Ryan O'Reilly......At what cost though?
Paul Postma and a 2nd round pick

A true old fashioned hockey trade...meeting the needs of both teams?!

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02-13-2013, 03:30 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
I left that out because it doesn't change anything I said about Hainsey's current or potential "market" value.
Yeah, but you're talking about trading a guy that the team may not be able to replace for several seasons over guys that look unlikely to ever be able to fill that role. It just doesn't add up.

When Byfuglien was out the Jets were a team that was short two top 4 defencemen and almost every one of Redmond, Postma, Clitsome, and Stuart got tried in a top 4 role. Of the four, Redmond showed that, perhaps, at some point in the distant future he could be counted on in that role. The other three showed nothing to indicate they'll ever be able to play those kind of minutes.

So what I'm getting at is, trading Hainsey doesn't mean playing with only 3 top 4 defencemen this year. It means the Jets will almost certainly be short a top 4 guy next season, and quite possible the one after that too.

Hainsey's value is high because he is a rare commodity in the NHL. Top 4 defencemen are legitimately difficult to come by. As far as what Hainsey may cost to re-sign goes, my opinion is that his actual asking price is irrelevant. It only comes down to two things. First, is Hainsey willing to re-sign at all. Second, does Cheveldayoff think there is anyone even remotely close to replacing Hainey's minutes. If the answers to those questions are yes and no, respectively, then Hainsey will be resigned regardless of the cap hit he's asking for.

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02-13-2013, 03:32 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Ober View Post
Paul Postma and a 2nd round pick

A true old fashioned hockey trade...meeting the needs of both teams?!
Not close. At all. Would have to offer a lot more to win the bidding war on O'Reilly. Even teams that don't need a center would offer much more than that.

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02-13-2013, 04:16 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
You also left out the fact that Byfuglien doesn't have any mysterious knee issues. He hurt his knee last year, and was out this year with a verified GROIN injury.
I was actually referring to the mysterious lower body injury... maybe I should've have been a little clearer. It's just last year it turned out to be the knee, and it was suspected that's what it was again this year.

Btw, since I haven't heard...who verified it was a groin? last I heard it was ear wax buildup


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Old
02-13-2013, 04:41 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
Yeah, but you're talking about trading a guy that the team may not be able to replace for several seasons over guys that look unlikely to ever be able to fill that role. It just doesn't add up.

When Byfuglien was out the Jets were a team that was short two top 4 defencemen and almost every one of Redmond, Postma, Clitsome, and Stuart got tried in a top 4 role. Of the four, Redmond showed that, perhaps, at some point in the distant future he could be counted on in that role. The other three showed nothing to indicate they'll ever be able to play those kind of minutes.

So what I'm getting at is, trading Hainsey doesn't mean playing with only 3 top 4 defencemen this year. It means the Jets will almost certainly be short a top 4 guy next season, and quite possible the one after that too.

Hainsey's value is high because he is a rare commodity in the NHL. Top 4 defencemen are legitimately difficult to come by. As far as what Hainsey may cost to re-sign goes, my opinion is that his actual asking price is irrelevant. It only comes down to two things. First, is Hainsey willing to re-sign at all. Second, does Cheveldayoff think there is anyone even remotely close to replacing Hainey's minutes. If the answers to those questions are yes and no, respectively, then Hainsey will be resigned regardless of the cap hit he's asking for.
Sorry but no player of Hainsey's caliber is signed regardless of the cap hit

Like I said, if we're out of the playoff hunt and If he isn't re-signed by the T/D and you can get good return on him, IMO you DO IT!

Let's remember that this team is still early into a 5+ year re-build. Thus, potentially losing out on an opportunity to get extra picks in a deep draft, or worse yet locking yourself into a contract for an over-paid borderline top 4 d-man because you're not 100% positive a promising young d-man like Redmond & Postma "may" not be quite ready for a few extra mins each a game (next year!), is certainly not my way of thinking.

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02-13-2013, 05:08 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
Sorry but no player of Hainsey's caliber is signed regardless of the cap hit

Like I said, if we're out of the playoff hunt and If he isn't re-signed by the T/D and you can get good return on him, IMO you DO IT!

Let's remember that this team is still early into a 5+ year re-build. Thus, potentially losing out on an opportunity to get extra picks in a deep draft, or worse yet locking yourself into a contract for an over-paid borderline top 4 d-man because you're not 100% positive a promising young d-man like Redmond & Postma "may" not be quite ready for a few extra mins each a game (next year!), is certainly not my way of thinking.
Sorry, regardless of cap hit was not the correct wording. What I meant to communicate was that they Jets will sign him at the full cap hit he would get in UFA.

As far as a 5+ year re-build goes, I don't view it that way, but more importantly, the Jets do not view it that way. At all. Their belief, at least as they've stated publicly, is that the best way to develop a young players is in a competitive and winning environment. Not by handing ice time to young players on a team languishing at the bottom of the standings. You can disagree with this philosophy if you wish but it is clearly the approach that TNSE is taking with this team.

Within that philosophy unless Redmond or Postma (or someone else) distinguishes himself as a legit top 4 defenceman I cannot imagine the Jets trading Hainsey.

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02-13-2013, 05:09 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
Sorry but no player of Hainsey's caliber is signed regardless of the cap hit

Like I said, if we're out of the playoff hunt and If he isn't re-signed by the T/D and you can get good return on him, IMO you DO IT!

Let's remember that this team is still early into a 5+ year re-build. Thus, potentially losing out on an opportunity to get extra picks in a deep draft, or worse yet locking yourself into a contract for an over-paid borderline top 4 d-man because you're not 100% positive a promising young d-man like Redmond & Postma "may" not be quite ready for a few extra mins each a game (next year!), is certainly not my way of thinking.
Technically we're in the 5th year of the rebuild...
2008: 3rd overall Zach Bogosian
2009: 4th overall Evander Kane
2010: 8th overall Alexander Burmistrov
2011: 7th overall Mark Scheifele
2012: 9th overall Jacob Trouba

Dates last Stanley Cup winners or top teams did rebuild/dove for high picks
LAK 2007: 3 top5 picks => Cup 2011 (5 seasons)
StL 2006: 1 #1 + 2 top5 picks => top performer 2011 (6 seasons)
Chicago 2004: 1 #1 + 2 top5 picks => Cup 2009 (5 seasons)
Pittsburg 2002: 2 #1 + 3 top5 picks => Cup 2008 (6 seasons)

Change in management and/or coaching doesn't really constitute rebuild, although can be commonly used at the same time.

Although in 2010-11 Dudley was trying to do a rebuild without diving for picks in 2010 to make up for Waddell's incompetence.

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02-13-2013, 05:18 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Technically we're in the 5th year of the rebuild...
2008: 3rd overall Zach Bogosian
2009: 4th overall Evander Kane
2010: 8th overall Alexander Burmistrov
2011: 7th overall Mark Scheifele
2012: 9th overall Jacob Trouba

Dates last Stanley Cup winners or top teams did rebuild/dove for high picks
LAK 2007: 3 top5 picks => Cup 2011 (5 seasons)
StL 2006: 1 #1 + 2 top5 picks => top performer 2011 (6 seasons)
Chicago 2004: 1 #1 + 2 top5 picks => Cup 2009 (5 seasons)
Pittsburg 2002: 2 #1 + 3 top5 picks => Cup 2008 (6 seasons)

Change in management and/or coaching doesn't really constitute rebuild, although can be commonly used at the same time.

Although in 2010-11 Dudley was trying to do a rebuild without diving for picks in 2010 to make up for Waddell's incompetence.
IF we're talking the Thrashers franchise your absolutely right, but speaking only of the Jets, I think 5 years started the day they arrived in Winnipeg.

Chevy is going to make this his team, and finding the right combination of players and waiting for some of "his" draft picks to mature into quality NHL'ers is going to take a few more years, especially since this year's crop of UFA's is very weak.

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02-13-2013, 05:23 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
I was actually referring to the mysterious lower body injury... maybe I should've have been a little clearer. It's just last year it turned out to be the knee, and it was suspected that's what it was again this year.

Btw, since I haven't heard...who verified it was a groin? last I heard it was ear wax buildup
Someone here who is very close to a player asked said player

Also, unfortunately every injury on this club is mysterious. It's team policy.

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02-13-2013, 05:29 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
Someone here who is very close to a player asked said player

Also, unfortunately every injury on this club is mysterious. It's team policy.
Maybe player who is close to poster lied about said player's true injury to avoid real injury from being posted on HFboards

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02-13-2013, 05:29 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
IF we're talking the Thrashers franchise your absolutely right, but speaking only of the Jets, I think 5 years started the day they arrived in Winnipeg.

Chevy is going to make this his team, and finding the right combination of players and waiting for some of "his" draft picks to mature into quality NHL'ers is going to take a few more years, especially since this year's crop of UFA's is very weak.
I agree somewhat, but it's still not a rebuild.

It's supplementing and supporting the main pieces that were stemmed from a rebuild, and hopefully being able to sustain success once the rebuild is complete. Most of us agree that Bogosian, Kane and Burmistrov are part of our future core, with the additional pieces made by some of Dudley's moves (Byfuglien, Wheeler and Ladd). Truth be told their is a time window on all rebuilds, especially since Dudley's moves were for (slightly) older pieces more aligned with Little's age than Bogosian, Kane and Burmistrov. If we wait 3-4 years, Little, Wheeler, Ladd, Byfuglien, Enstrom, and Pavelec will all (most likely) be on the decline.

Trying to draft "your" picks and mature them into quality NHLers isn't rebuilding... it's smart GM'ing that is the rule in the post-lockout era.

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Old
02-13-2013, 06:08 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
Maybe player who is close to poster lied about said player's true injury to avoid real injury from being posted on HFboards
Oooh, mysterious!

But no

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02-13-2013, 07:10 PM
  #241
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Hearing rumors of Alexei Ponikarovsky's trade out of WPG. NJD perhaps? Checking.

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02-13-2013, 07:11 PM
  #242
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uh Poni out?

**** that didnt take long

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02-13-2013, 07:12 PM
  #243
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weird..

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02-13-2013, 07:18 PM
  #244
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Pony to NJ for a 4th and 7th , 2014.

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02-13-2013, 07:18 PM
  #245
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Weird. Wish I could say that I was surprised though.

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02-13-2013, 07:19 PM
  #246
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confirmed... I guess we really needed that 7th back this year

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#NHLJets trade Alexei Ponikarovsky to New Jersey Devils in exchange for 2013 7th round draft pick & 2014 4th round draft pick

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02-13-2013, 07:21 PM
  #247
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Pony to NJ for a 4th and 7th , 2014.
By god that's awful lol

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02-13-2013, 07:21 PM
  #248
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Poni wasn't going to be a plus player for us imo . Decent , fair return .

Poni for Tangradi and a 4th. No complaints from me.

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02-13-2013, 07:23 PM
  #249
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Poni wasn't going to be a plus player for us imo . Decent , fair return .

Poni for Tangradi and a 4th. No complaints from me.
never really thought of it that way

not horrid I guess

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02-13-2013, 07:23 PM
  #250
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Poni wasn't going to be a plus player for us imo . Decent , fair return .

Poni for Tangradi and a 4th. No complaints from me.
That's a good way to look at it. Poni obviously wasn't a very good fit here - hopefully Tangradi can find his game. Should mention to him that there's a lost and found at the Winnipeg airport.

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